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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Default and the idiot award goes to

    Slowing down to 15km/h and 2nd at a round about on my way to work. Light rain since the morning, hot dry sunny weather for most of the week. Make a right turn, as usual, all well and good. Suddenly as im about 30% in the round about, my front wheels lock up and slide. In panic, the brakes didn't do anything, it was a complete understeer, and my left front wheel hit the curb.

    Wheel is off center now, hub or control arm or something must be buggered, and that wheel is definitely misaligned as well. Dropped it off safely to a mechanic but god, you can never be too careful.

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    friend at work saw me and said he didn't think I was going fast, and that it was oil on the road, but i still feel that i could have avoided that somehow - every other car seemed fine. But I went and inspected that curb, way too many scratches on it...

    i've controlled my car in other slippery wet conditions before... hydroplaning on James Ruse Drive, drove over a puddle that I didn't see at night at, it was scary but intuitive to correct. This one I just lost complete control and had no space to control



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    COL
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    I have had similar things like that happen to me before, what ever you do don't touch the brake pedal. Just lift off the go pedal straighten the front wheels to get grip back then turn slowly.

    There must of been some oil or diesel on the road that your outside wheel hit.

    Hope there is not to much damage to the suspension, replacing the bent wheel is easy.
    Regards Col

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Have you ever tried walking on oil covered bitumen, it's like ice. Perhaps it was a smaller oil slick and others missed it, but you caught it. I had a car that dropped the oil on the road once as I was turning into side road, it was the first time I oversteered at under 15 kmph, with next to no throttle. Bit of diesel in the rain has very similar effect.
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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    That is one of my greatest fears when riding a motorbike, hitting a small patch of oil on a bend, corner or roundabout...down you go.
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    That is one of my greatest fears when riding a motorbike, hitting a small patch of oil on a bend, corner or roundabout...down you go.
    It would be worse with a with a speeding Bogan on your tail light
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Roundabouts with a bit of diesel on have caught me out in the rain before. Trucks and utes with overfull tanks and leaking or missing fuel caps are an abomination when the roads are wet, particularly going around sharp corners.....Not a lot you can do about it, that's why it's called terminal understeer!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    What tyres are you running and how old are they??

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    I have had similar things like that happen to me before, what ever you do don't touch the brake pedal.
    If the car is sliding under steady state cornering, applying the brakes (not locking them) can actually improve the weight transfer onto the front wheels and improve front end bite. At worst you'll leave the road slower and at a lesser angle of departure (unless you lock the wheels)...

    Left foot is good for this...

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Sometimes if this happens and you're sliding not too fast into a kerb and you can't recover it, if you're not going to hit a pole or similar, you're better off steering into the kerb at the last second so the tyre cops it head on rather than the wheel side on. Can avoid the damage of bending suspension components that way (if you're not going too fast) but realistically you're generally not expecting it in the first place to think that quickly and it's already happened by then.
    cheers,

    John

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    If you break traction in conditions of low grip, my suggestion is to dip the clutch as quick as you can to allow the wheel to regain normal angular speed for car speed. After that you can steer and correct if you didn't hit anything yet. Got me out of a lot of trouble in very different conditions but all to do with traction loss on low grip roads (snow, mud, ice, etc.).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    hi jo Eagle F1 GS-D3. They still got life ahead of them. Guys at PQ sent me over to a tyre place for a quick check and the guy said the tyres are one of the best, he said the slippage was most likely oil on the road. As for what needs repair he couldn't say then and there.

    J-man, yeah everything was way too quick. In moments like this its where muscle memory and experience have to override, thinking just takes too long.

    I went on youtube to see what it was like for other cars/motorbikes and damn

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBqdSSzlsVw

    In that video judging by how many metres it took for him to stop he wasn't going that fast.


    Lesson learnt. Definitely going to consider those skid safety courses sometime. If that slip was at an intersection, i would have slid into another car or pedestrian instead of a curb.

  12. #12
    JBN
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    I had a similar situation shortly after aquiring a Xantia. The tyres were some obscure brand, so I replaced the fronts the next day with something I had confidence in. Some months later the rear (still shod in the crappy tyres) gave a wag. The next day they were replaced.

    In both the above situations, I didn't touch the brakes. I usually twiddle the wheel and then apply power. In the end, we all have our own reactions in an emergency and it is what you do rather than what you should do that matters.

    How you drive normally has a great influence on how you react in an emergency. Aggressive drivers are more danger conscious than staid drivers, as they are often pushing the envelope and are more likely to react to danger by accelerating than braking.

    It is very hard to bridge the gap from comatose Kate to Sebatian Loeb in a split second.

    John

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Acceleration is not going to help you if your tires have broken grip, John. Takes a lot of practice on ice to believe and then create the reflex. Loeb has spiked tires.

    Lion, did you check the pressure in those tires?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I avoided a similar situation about 6 months ago.

    The car in front of me went into a roundabout going ~15km/h faster than me. That's the speed I would have usually taken it, but we'd just had the first rain for about a fortnight. He got half way through, and went to turn back to the left to exit. No dice. The wheels all lost traction, and he spun through 540 degrees, bouncing up onto the kerb facing backwards. Luckily, no other traffic, and he landed between the poles.

    I was glad I had dropped my speed, that's for sure! My partner was a passenger as well!

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    and the idiot award goes to-screen-shot-2014-01-22-7.57.59-am.jpg

    google maps image with some crappy drawings


    Tyre Pressure: as per door trim 2.8 bar, i do 40 psi every petrol fill up i usually check them. I checked them friday last week
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails and the idiot award goes to-screen-shot-2014-01-22-7.54.28-am.jpg  

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    If the car is sliding under steady state cornering, applying the brakes (not locking them) can actually improve the weight transfer onto the front wheels and improve front end bite. At worst you'll leave the road slower and at a lesser angle of departure (unless you lock the wheels)...

    Left foot is good for this...
    The reason why I say lift off the go pedal is that you will not lock the wheels and it will transfer the weight to the front (just a little), also you will get the lift off over steer (not as prevalent with a modern FWD) which will get the nose to tuck in a little.

    I agree with you that applying the brakes transfers the weight to the front and gives more bite, this is fine in a controlled situation but when the wheels have already lost traction you will just create more under steer.
    Regards Col

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    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2014-01-22 at 7.57.59 AM.jpg 
Views:	461 
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ID:	52104

    google maps image with some crappy drawings


    Tyre Pressure: as per door trim 2.8 bar, i do 40 psi every petrol fill up i usually check them. I checked them friday last week
    There is not a lot of room there for correcting mistakes.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    There is not a lot of room there for correcting mistakes.
    one need only search for car crash videos on Youtube to see that. they are almost all russian, and full of cars sliding helplessly all over the place on icy and wet roads. if there is ice or diesel involved especially, seems to me you about zero chance of doing anything other than waiting for the impact.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post
    hi jo Eagle F1 GS-D3. They still got life ahead of them.
    Really?? Not on my car they wouldn't.

    But when were they made????
    It says so on the sidewall.

    Jo

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It won't be tires .... I had this happen to me many years ago when I was on "P" plates in my old Renault 12. I sailed right through a red light with 4wheels locked .............. feeling like the bloody car was accelerating. I was only doing about 50km/h at the time. The road was slightly damp.... I reckon kids had poured diesel all over the road leading upto the traffic lights (slightly downhill). I'd gone back and found I couldn't even stand up on the road it was so slippery. Luckily the traffic green light side saw I wasn't pulling up and waited for me to slide through.

    If there is something on the road, your just a passenger, nothing you can doing is going to stop the laws of physics taking you where they desire.

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    Australia sounds dangerous....Yuk-Yuk. ~Steph.

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    1000+ Posts J-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephineS View Post
    Australia sounds dangerous....Yuk-Yuk. ~Steph.
    The roads are fine Steph; nothing really to worry about there. It's the aggressive man eating Koalas and Kangaroo's hopping in the the main streets of Australian cities you've got to watch
    cheers,

    John

  23. #23
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-man View Post
    The roads are fine Steph; nothing really to worry about there. It's the aggressive man eating Koalas and Kangaroo's hopping in the the main streets of Australian cities you've got to watch
    Especially the Koalas and Kangaroos that are behind the wheel.
    Regards Col

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    I recently replaced a set of 7 year old tyres. Visually, they had life lefr in them. on a wet road, however, they were like driving on ice and outright dangerous.

    Via the aussiefrogs App

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    It won't be tires ....
    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Well WTF is it then??? gearbox fluid/wiper blades/ colour of seat cover/type of air freshener????

    Sorry Shane, you are plainly wrong. You have some weird concepts going on in your mind regarding traction (like the rears dont do much)

    It is tyres that keeps you pointed in the right direction (or not) and that is that.


    THe OP has already stated that his car was the only one that slid and the others did not.

    If it isn't tyres it is probably driver error- I suspect both in this case.

    By the way, the last time my car slid on first rain was the last time I ran chinese cheapies.
    Had no choice, the budget was stretched at the time, but no amount of savings in tyres is worth the stress of understeering into something and doing considerable damage, so its premium tyres or nothing for me now. Dodging bullets is not my idea of fun.

    A brand new pair of michi ps3 understeered the car in the dry, and those tyres got binned immediately. Thats a $460 set of trailer tyres.
    You will only find about 3 people in the whole internet who bag the ps3 as a ultra high performance tyre, and I'm one of them.

    Run cheap tyres, the wrong type of tyre, run them to 60k km or keep them for 7 years and you may pay a high price for your apparent frugalness.


    Jo
    Last edited by jo proffi; 22nd January 2014 at 11:41 AM.

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