Interesting Aussie Innovation
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    JBN
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    Default Interesting Aussie Innovation

    Came across this Aussie design, replacing piston rings with air.

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    Aussie invention eliminates piston rings - motoring.com.au

    John

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    It all sounds like hot air......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    The answer my friend is blowing past the Rings...which aren't there. Sorry. ~Steph.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephineS View Post
    The answer my friend is blowing past the Rings...which aren't there. Sorry. ~Steph.
    You're a smartypants. I like that.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    UFO
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    Perhaps it can be purchased from the same mob that sells spark plugs and headlight fluid?
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    And "thrust bearing repair in a tube"?

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    The proposed system apparently uses a lot of the principles of the long lamented Victorian Three Stroke Engine, which had a prototype of one and a half cylinders running in a hermetically sealed chamber shown to the public in 1964. The prototype had no measurable noise, vibration or emissions, and was deemed the future of internal combustion engines. It ran quietly for many years but unfortunately, because of the hermetic sealing it was found impossible to provide any useful external rotary force and the project was subsequently shelved.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    I hope it doesn't but I feel it will go the way of the Sarich engine lost and forgotten

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J Kent View Post
    I hope it doesn't but I feel it will go the way of the Sarich engine lost and forgotten
    Was a prototype orbital engine ever produced?

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Yes, it was shown running on TV.

    Often referred to as a failure, the Sarich technology was anything but:

    Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Sarich
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I should have been clearer and asked.....

    Was an orbital engine ever built and installed into a device (even a dyno) that transferred its rotary motion into some sort of effort.


    Jo

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    I understand what they are trying to achieve with the ridges but I can't work out how they can design the ridges to seal even remotely well over the large varying range of engine speeds experienced by an ice.

    The ridges look similar in principle ro the ridges used on some air rifle projectiles.


    But these are designed to work at a predetermined pressure.

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    JBN
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    The problem with Australian inventions is only a very small percentage of our population say "Yes, we can".

    The vast majority say "No we can't because we are Aussies".

    Western Australia, which is (from their point of view) unfortunately attached to the rest of Australia, has been a hot bed of interesting inventions. Apart from Sarich, there is the excellent off road hydraulic suspension developed by (I forget his name). He has also developed a unique float style "suspension" for boats, allowing them to traverse rough conditions at speed with safety.

    I put this down to the low population density of WA, where the Yes-We-Can mob are suitably separated from the No-We-Can't mob, so the poor ignorant inventors perservere in the belief that they are really onto something. The poor performance of the Greens in that state means that not all people have been taught to think upon idealogical (ie not logical) lines.

    WA - the state of excitement where ignorance is bliss and their dirt roads are even better.

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Yes, it was shown running on TV.

    Often referred to as a failure, the Sarich technology was anything but:

    Read this: Ralph Sarich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Ask who wrote that and why?
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    I'm lost. I've read the current version, looked at early versions. What am I supposed to be looking at?

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Who wrote it and why needs some research because it is a window dressed, tidy up of history clearly written by an interested party. A lot of investors got their fingers burned and there is no mention of that.
    I could go on about the inaccuracies, which are not lies but just a sugar coating. It wouldn't pass muster in academic research. The main lesson I hope my students take home is never believe anything you read in the media and especially the Internet unless you can calibrate it, starting with why it is there at all and who wrote it.
    Wikipedia understands that well because a lot of subjects have been taken over by commercial interests and they do not have the resources to do the editorial process on everything at once.
    I was just using another Wikipedia entry, a biography of someone known to me and which I though was reasonably accurate and fair. However, someone has complained, I suspect out of spite resulting from an old interaction with the person. There is no editorial rush to correct it, which makes the entry meaningless.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    In my days in venture capital I looked at thousands of business plans, many around inventions. Australia in proportion to its population is as inventive as any other advanced society. The difficulty comes when one wants to commercialise an invention. More often than not Australia does not have a relevant industry and is located far from significant markets. At one time, government pressure was put on CSIRO and university researchers to commercailise through an embryonic local company rather than taking the idea to existing competent parties on a larger scale overseas. You can imagine why but the outcome was that lots of promising ideas faded because the promoters were unable to solve the business creation challenges.
    Eventually industrial realities have reached the bureaucrats and the licensing or overseas exploitation has become the norm.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Thanks Gerry,

    I could readily smell the "spin" but was wondering if you meant it had been written by someone in particular whom I should have been aware of.

    There's good sleight of pen when it goes from defending running prototypes to describing the use of franchised technology for staged injection/combustion.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    May I direct your attention to the last sentence in the second paragraph below:

    "The Orbital Engine Corp earns its money from the sale of its intellectual property through licence fees and royalties as well as fees for the provision of engineering services. Orbital has earned in excess of $150 million in licence and related fees. Its technology package includes over 1000 patents or patent applications lodged in more than 20 countries worldwide, covering innovation in all aspects of engine and control system technology.

    Licensees include General Motors Corporation, Ford Motor Company and Fiat Auto as well as non-automotive companies including Brunswick Corporation(the parent of Mercury Marine), Outboard Marine Corporation, BajajAuto Limited and Piaggio V.E.s.P.A. In 1996 Orbital fitted its two-stroke engine to a prototype sports car and a government fleet of Ford Festivas in Australia.



    In 2000, Aprilia of Italy released the first two-stroke motorcycle with Orbital's direct fuel injection technology, and Orbital signed an agreement with Sundiro, one of China's largest scooter manufacturers,to use Orbital's engine in its popular Chinese scooters."

    More from the article here:

    Orbital engine technology - Australia Innovates - Powerhouse Museum


    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    The only other source I have read on that, stated the Fiesta (of which I could find no mention of quantity actually produced) used the "OCP" technology. It appears to be forced induction two stroke with direct injection (and presumably tightly controlled EGR).

    Again, this is removed from the idea of a completely revised engine structure which is what the orbital engine was touted to be.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Another Aussie Knocker! The original Orbital engine concept was enthusiastically embraced by none other than the head of BHP research amongst others at the time, it's practical problems may have seen it slide quietly into limbo, yet it's technical innovations persist, unlike a lot of other "revolutionary" engines. (Seen any new Wankel Rotaries lately?)

    The innovative spin-off fuel control technology is still owned by the same mob that developed it, is still making money and is still cleaning up emissions world-wide. Also, I believe that around 100 Ford Fiestas with Orbital engines were manufactured and tested in Australia and Europe. Some were even given to UK Police Forces for trials.

    Powerhouse Museum - Collection Database
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Interesting Aussie Innovation-orbitalfiesta1.jpg   Interesting Aussie Innovation-orbitalfiesta2.jpg   Interesting Aussie Innovation-orbitalfiesta3.jpg  
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Knocker my arse.

    Even your linked document states (the most credible account I've seen yet, so thank you for linking it) the original engine had problems that seemed unable to be surmounted by available technology at the time.

    I have no truck whatsoever with the idea that an Australian company refined and "packaged" a system of fuelling, induction and engine management that may be very beneficial to certain applications of internal combustion engines (and considering the mooted shift away from diesel in European countries due to emissions concerns, may yet gain further traction). However I consider this is technology being sold for profit, not a specific and innovative motor design.

    In a nutshell, Sarich is popularly touted for its "orbital engine" whereas what has been carried on, is a "combustion process" (their own term).

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I find your view of the patented OCP technology somewhat churlish, as it represented a giant step forward for the two-stroke induction process even though it was specifically designed as part of the Orbital engine. Ralph Sarich is best known for inventing the Orbital engine and Isaac Newton is famous for an apple falling on his head. In both cases that was not the end of the story.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    BHP lost a fortune backing Sarich. Sarich went on to property development in WA.

    Remember the 6 stroke engine? Great Aussie invention. Last I heard Jack Brabham was trying to wrestle control from the inventor.

    Never forget the now departed Arthur Bishop. Now there was a genius Australian inventor!

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Or, Lew Bandt.

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