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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Default Now Pugless.

    There its happened.

    After 11 years of constant Peugeot ownership I have signed the papers.. officially...and I no longer own a French car...

    And those reading the darker edges of this forum will know I now have a LandRover....

    A switch in the form of motoring insanity.

    I thought it useful to post a reply to another forum member on new LandRover ownership...

    original post to me....


    Really hope that your Landy is a good one.

    Personally I would take it to a Good Church & ask them to anoint it with oil-pray for it & ask them to break every curse that has ever been spoken over it's build AND over the ENTIRE LandRover name!!

    If you think I am kidding it is a proven fact that prayer works & God knows it is needed-particularly LandRovers.

    I first came into contact with them in the early 70's in W.A.-using them commercially-Sold them later in the 70's-Though, like the R.Royces I NEVER recommended them. Friend bought one recently -HUGH MISTAKE-proven already.
    -Salman ,who is on A/Frogs occasionally knows them inside out -I reckon he would give them 0/10.

    Salman managed B.M.W in Saudi-Arabia & I think he would put them ALL in the same boat & have them sunk.

    You probably would not know but some years ago a go a guy was found praying in a closet. were going to sack him but somewhere thru the process that there had been major improvement in the Company since he had started praying -So know they PAY him to pray.

    I am serious with my suggestion.

    Cheers.
    Cheers.


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    My response.....


    After 5000km in 6 weeks there have been no issues...Lord Lucas be praised, (Lord Lucas being the British car industry... Prince of Darkness).

    I have had LandRovers in the past and the current 90 is both the same and very different.

    2.2 intercooled turbo, 16 valve Duratorque....(Fords common rail diesel used for many years in their euro commercials). Works well and fuel economy is acceptable.

    6 speed gearbox, (3 too many by my count, but it does mean you can cruise at 110km/hr).

    Diffs again from Ford, as used in the F100 for many years, (reliable and quiet).

    So apart from the ergonomics, (a bit like work boots, you have to break them in, (more like breaking in the feet)), the ride and space is not too bad.

    I like the idea of not having a beeping and flashing, that tells me I have omitted to put on my seatbelt, (I know that already). Nor do I need a sensor that tells me the external temperature, (winding down the window gives me all the climate information I need).

    And being able to get the SWB for $40k, new, makes the package affordable. If I had $90k I would have probably purchased a Landcruiser.

    Oh and its not built in China/Korea/Thailand/Ukraine etc.

    Oh...and it is a proper four wheel drive, not a faux, spaghetti chassis, low to the ground, golf club transporter.

    Prayer is the last refuge of the dammed. I have stood at the foot of the Bronze of Lucifer the fallen angel, in Madrid. The statue climbed down from its pedestal and paid homage to its true master....me.

    God drives a LandRover.


    .................................................. .................................................. .................


    So it is with great sadness I no longer have a Pug. Now with SWMBO out of range this is where I canvas the Forum for a PROJECT CAR....

    A 404 sedan?????? a 504 ute????

    Recreate a Dangel in 505 form

    Now there's a project....
    Last edited by Gamma; 28th December 2013 at 08:08 AM.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  2. #2
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    No need for an anointing when you have the design that came down from heaven. Though they haven't been the same since they dropped the box chassis and the flaps under the windscreen. All vehicles need that sort of ventilation. Anyway, the motor should look very familiar to a pug man.

    And in many many years Lord Lucas, or his angels from CAV, never visited me.
    Now Pugless.-landie-chassis.jpgPS: Real 4WDs can be hosed out inside!
    Last edited by seasink; 28th December 2013 at 08:49 AM. Reason: PS

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    You failed to mention Oil Bath air filter...
    Fuel tank under your arse,
    Thumb breaking steering lash,
    IVR and canvas wiring,
    44 lubrication points,
    Smiths heaters that ensure your torso remains frozen as your feet fry,

    Having said that ...the chassis is well ridged and though aesthetic, the flaps only served the function of ensuring that the interior was well flushed with rain water when not letting in the dust/oil fume/flying critters etc.

    With ...I never would have imagined it...AIR-CONDITIONING , you do not need flaps....
    The side windows are as they should be ... sliding...


    Having owned a K series mini from Leyland I have cursed Lord Lucas many times.

    Seriously ,the new LandRover Defenders are a step forward, with an eye on the past. Too bad they will be going out of production in a year or so....

    I like the SI or is it an SII Chassis...just add steering wheel, radiator and milk crate and its a goer....
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  4. #4
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    The fuel tank used as bum support means it never got harmed. There was so much underfloor space under Landies I remember fixing a gearbox sitting underneath in the field. And I can't think of anything modern where you can lift the whole 4WD transmission out through a bloody great hole in the floor. Hercules was a good mate to have around for this.

    The oil bath worked and was cheap to keep clean. In fact despite having a sump the size of a locomotive the vehicle was cheap to keep.

    There was a shock absorber on the steering, as well as a recirculating ball box - What lash? Indeed what feel at all - much like a Citroen, just needing some muscle.

    Mine had so few electrics the wiring hardly mattered, but it never gave trouble in nearly 40 years. I loved the two huge tractor batteries that cost the earth but lasted forever.

    What lube points? What heater? Smith was meant for demisting. No a/c fan can manage the draught in your face from the flaps. And for real ventilation you could just unbolt the roof.

    The only parts under the sway of the Prince of Darkness in mine were the lights, alternator and starter motor. His demon CAV provided the injection pump. All lasted the distance.

    The pic is a IIa to remind you of the good old days. Don't park your new one near here - despite the lack of ventilation and lack of hose-proof, it's on my prayer list.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    I too had the SWB IIa.

    Yes...sitting on a plank, (in a slight dugout mechanics pit, (or that should be mechanics wallow when it rained)) under the IIa doing the hand brake, (it can still be done with the new 90...if I can bend down low enough to do it).

    Sump is still a 7lt capacity!!!!

    Bring back the cyclone oil bath filter. Yes, cheap, easy to service and effective, (I have modified an old 505 pre filter using WD40 for a tractor filter and it may be possible for the 90 in the future, (snorkel to follow).

    I suppose if the shock was replaced and the steering box re-coed there may not have been as much back-lash.

    The wiring in mine had been attacked by a previous owner who had rerouted or ran parallel wires...all in the same colour...red. (eventually sorted). I actually rebuilt the rubber cased battery in mine, (I think I purchased the last set of plates for the centurion battery, with a couple of pints of acid), simply unscrew the lid, wash off the old plates and flush out the box, screw in the new plates as required, clean off the old "mastic", reapply said goo from the tin tube, (after immersion in hot water for 15 min to soften), screw back on and fill diluting acid to the recommended SG. Charge and use.

    Real ventilation was provided via the lack of window uppers, (not just no glass...no frame), and this in an Armidale winter sorted out the hard form the soft pretty quickly, (it also meant that others would offer to take their cars as opposed to getting a lift with me, (especially true when it rained or was snowing).

    Everything had a grease nipple or the requirement for applications of whale oil or blubber at some point, (I added a few myself, including one for filling the outer steering ball on the front diff, ( it needed new ones as the scoring meant that you could not keep oil in the outer casing, so filling them with a gear oil/moly grease mix reduced the leak rate to an acceptable trickle and the best way to administer this was via a hand filled grease gun).

    Hosing is still advised in the owners book, so hoseability is still there.

    Service ever 20,000km....most un-LandRover like.....
    Last edited by Gamma; 30th December 2013 at 08:43 AM.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

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    For old times' sake..... I found this IIa diesel interior online. Controls by engineers, unaided by stylists and, unlike the rear half shafts, built to last . Everyone struggling with repairs behind a Pug dash should weep.
    Now Pugless.-dash.jpg

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Bring it back.
    Form follows function.
    I would proffer that the current Defender is one of the last user 4WD.
    Short of deleting the fancy electronics and installing a Perkins it still has the makings of an original 48 88".
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The god to pray to now is Ganesh.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

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    Gamma you are killing me! I went and found the original documentation, which belongs in a rare book library by now. Three small volumes and two large ones, properly bound, with everything - even down to rebuilding diesel motors, gearboxes and diffs, all illustrated with proper drawings - none of this "refer to dealer" garbage. You were expected to do everything yourself without a hoist (and probably sitting in a swamp). I once removed a mate's motor by looping a rope around my shoulders and straddling it on the chassis inside the engine bay. You even got a toolkit, hydraulic jack, and tyre pump under the seat. I love my modern Cit, but I loved a classic Rover much much more. These things were to 4WDs as DSs were to cars. I cannot understand why sensible Defenders have reached the end of the road. It's as tragic as losing hydraulic suspension.

    I will forgive them for using PSA diesels these days - the old one would tow a heavy lorry without sweating, but was only 60 hp, so the Newcastle Freeway long hills were trying indeed. You might even have to double declutch to 2nd.

    Gerry - cheap and decent parts for these were coming out of India even before Rover's demise.
    Last edited by seasink; 28th December 2013 at 08:17 PM.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Fortunately TATA is only a financial owner who is transferring tec back to India and not the other-way round, (Though Tata trucks are not that bad and in the third/developing/emerging...read backward... world, where you manufacture or refurbish and fit your own broken bits...in the middle of nowhere.....Oh! like we used to...).

    The reason for the demise of the SWB Defender has a lot to do with EU emission law changes and Californian pedestrian impact rules. Now my way of thinking is there is little difference in what form the 36 hundredweight of truck is, that smacks you...its going to hurt. Redesign may mean that you have to back up for a second go, to make sure you are the only one telling the sad and woeful story of the J walkers demise.

    Seasink....snap...I too have dug out my bound, two volume service and repair manuals for the SIIa.
    Accurate descriptions, with photos and diagrams that actually indicate WTF to do...(Mr Haynes take note!!!).

    I am thinking of compiling a book of anecdotes, titled..."DEATH BY STATIONARY MOTORVEHICLE", a tale of roadside repairs and home fixes that we survived, despite our best efforts to be a source of mirth and derision for the state coroner.

    For example....Checking for a dud sparkplug on a RED motor 202, (Holden 1tonner).
    A short while after replacing the old points ignition system in the HZ, (due to no longer having a points distributer without a bent shaft or so much play in the bushes it had become impossible to either set both gap and dwell, it was either gap or dwell, (on most cylinders)), with a fancy electronic ignition system from a roadside wrecked VK, (read...dumped ... therefor fair game and ripe for salvage).

    Starting with the usual twisting of the leads while running...no change...

    I then proceeded with #1...pulled the lead off...engine falters...plug and lead good..return to original position.

    Then #2...pulled the lead off...engine falters...plug and lead good..return to original position.

    Then #3...pulled the lead off...engine falters...plug and lead good..return to original position.

    #4 pulled...I was attacked...gripped and crushed...little was I expecting that due to the higher voltage,of the "new and fancy" electronic ignition, the fault lay with the general state of grunge and filth under my bonnet and the life giving spark to the engine was lost to earth, (aided in great part by the 22,000volts driving it), via the crap, on, in, and around the cowl of the high tension lead ......which I was now holding...or more accurately...was unable to let go of.

    Imagine the scene, a young aspiring amateur mechanic, leaning into the expansive engine bay of an HZ, over the drivers side guard...one hand clasping "Hertez's" anaconda, biting at around 950rpm....my hand...arm...torso...providing the only route to earth....via my groin..... to the top of the wheel arch.

    I writhed upon there, for what seemed like an eternity.
    Unable to draw breath, unable to scream out, unable to let go.......

    I suppose I blacked out.....possibly after belting my head on the bonnet...or possibly after my legs joined into the high speed twitching...so allowing me to slump to the ground...still grasping the now detached and dead lead end.

    5 out of 6 cylinders still spluttering out an inconsistent rhythm....mocking me...

    It was some time before I could move...crawl...walk back to the house and the comfort of being sprawled on the wooden floor to realign my fried senses.

    It was some days before returning to the beast, now armed with insulated pliers and a new respect for the wonders of modern electronics.

    One of many tales of encounters with all things mechanical that can lead to....

    ."DEATH BY STATIONARY MOTORVEHICLE".
    Last edited by Gamma; 29th December 2013 at 10:15 AM. Reason: speelink
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

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