French people not heard of French car marque
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    Fellow Frogger! Dijon16's Avatar
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    Default French people not heard of French car marque

    Been meaning to post this for a couple of weeks.

    Went to the Melbourne French car festival last month. Stayed at a youth hostel in north Melbourne, and was talking to 3 young-ish French guys, in their early twenties I would say.

    I explained that I was a French car enthusiast and had come from Sydney to Melbourne just to look at French cars.

    They asked me what kind of French cars we have here. I replied the usual - the Citroens, the Peugeots, the Renaults, even some Simcas.

    A few blank looks back and forwards - the what they asked?

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    Simca I said, a French car brand, not around any more.

    More blank looks, a shrug of the shoulders - never heard of it they said.

    I mentioned that in history there had been over 800 French car marques, and this was one of the better known ones.

    Well, it wasn't known by them, and they moved on to the next subject.

    Makes me wonder of there are kids being born now who will grow up not knowing what a Holden is.

    And, I know that there is a Simca thread in this forum. Not only would it get read by only 3 people, it was not so much about that brand in particular, as about the changing times of car manufacturing.

    In hindsight, I guess that this is not very surprising. Years ago I was with the rellies and their walking group in Nantes, and none of them could identify what was obviously a Matra Simca Bagheera, and these were all professional people who were in their 50s. It was not as if they had been living under a rock.

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    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,

    Torana

    Sunbird

    Capri

    Zeta

    Arcardiapane

    Lightburn

    Hartnett

    Nota

    PRB

    Purvis

    Australian Six

    Bushranger

    Buchanan

    to name a few...

    ever heard of them?

    All Australian.
    regards,
    Les W.


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    Fellow Frogger!
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    you forgot OKA

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    I had a garage door salesman here once who insisted that my Panhard 24 had to be an English sports car in spite of the fact that I pointed out that P&L were the pioneers of car racing and manufacture in France.
    He didn't get the order.
    More seriously, the young public in France don't read national identity into cars and have to have to be reminded by Renault ads. that they have "The French Touch", whatever that is. The three marques that dominate this Forum's interest all have more action outside France than in. Most of the cars sold in France are manufactured elsewhere.
    Because of the changes in fuel preferences, the subsidised scrapping, recyling and other factors defunct marques are not visible on the roads other than in activities around car clubs. As these are an older generation passion, the young have no exposure and in these days of sexting and other distractions, have little interest.
    Most young people grow up in towns where increasingly cars are a liability, are attracted to Green policies that reject pollution and rely on public transport, two wheels and in extremis, two legs.
    Sucessive governments and urban congestion have made sure that driving is not exciting or even pleasant most of the time and so they get their jollies elswhere.
    Last edited by gerry freed; 10th November 2013 at 10:01 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! Dijon16's Avatar
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    To answer the question, as a motoring enthusiast, yes of course. I've driven a Purvis Eureka.

    I am happy to be corrected, but my understanding would be that Simca was:
    - around for about 50 years
    - made dozens of different models
    - made (my estimate) hundreds of thousands of units
    - was sold in many countries around the world.

    What you have listed are some models not marques, or some single model brands that were made in single-digit examples, or maybe some that were never even commercialised. I can't see that there is any valid comparison in that argument. The terms 'apples' and 'oranges' comes to mind.

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    IWS
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    I reckon if you were to chat with a group of young Americans and you mentioned Studebaker you would get the same "A what??" response.

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Worse than that, I built up a Eureka for my wife and its many adventures are part of the family heritage.

    Simca made lots of cars but were not very French. They were a Franco-Italian company founded by Fiat to assemble and market their cars in France. It was a dodge to get round import duties. The shareholding was all French but it was just a facade to hide the Italian control. WWII brought that to a halt and it restarted post war using the name Simca which it had adopted earlier, dropping the Fiat-Simca branding. During the war, the Italians kept control by persuading the Germans to put it under the wing of Fiat Germany. After the war, the Italians got control again and using US financial assistance got the company making cars again initially based, as before, on Fiats. The first so called Simca was the Aronde but it still was based on the Fiat 1400 motor. They then flirted with Ford and used their V8's but Henry Ford pulled out as he couldn't cope with the French love of strikes and the perceived threat of Communism. Simca acquired Ford France but in '54 moved into the Chrysler camp and got into design interchange with the Rootes group that Chrysler also acquired. The Simca 1000 was the last Simca designed by Fiat. Fiat then set up their own French subsidiary leaving Chrysler in full ownership of Simca.
    Chrysler in trouble, sold off its European subsidiaries. Simca, now Chrysler France, was saved by the French Government, as previously were CitroŽn, by pushing them under the Peugeot wing. Peugeot owned the Talbot marque and rebirthed the Simcas under that name for six years and then killed of the marque completely. It was only for those six years that Simca was wholly owned and controlled in France.

    French ?? I don't think so. An early trans-national enterprise to circumvent protectionism for several owners - much more plausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dijon16 View Post
    To answer the question, as a motoring enthusiast, yes of course. I've driven a Purvis Eureka.

    I am happy to be corrected, but my understanding would be that Simca was:
    - around for about 50 years
    - made dozens of different models
    - made (my estimate) hundreds of thousands of units
    - was sold in many countries around the world.

    What you have listed are some models not marques, or some single model brands that were made in single-digit examples, or maybe some that were never even commercialised. I can't see that there is any valid comparison in that argument. The terms 'apples' and 'oranges' comes to mind.
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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    wadabout P76?
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59 Floride View Post
    wadabout P76?
    I thought it was a brand of 44 gallon drum
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    No, it was a storage shed for 44 gallon drums that failed because it could only hold one at a time.
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The proposed merger between Hartnett and Lightburn was called off because all you got was hartburn.
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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    The P76 failed because it was only half the car Leyland thought it was...should have called it the P38..
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Here's a picture of Yo with Eureka. Note that this Australian car was built by an Aussie/Pom for an Aussie/Frog to a British design (Nova) using a German chassis, engine and gearbox and a Japanese trip computer. The Recaro seats were German but at least the body was moulded in Victoria.
    http://www.globalfreed.net/citfiles/eureka0001b.jpg
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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Both my current French cars were produced at Poissy, the former SIMCA plant, which as Gerry mentioned started life as a Ford venture for the purpose of avoiding or minimising protectionist tariffs. It basically became operational in 1940, just in time for the Germans to occupy France, and the plant itself

    It produced light trucks during and after the war (was bombed a few times) and I think its first real car was the Ford Vedette in the early '50s. It was only very shortly afterwards that it was sold to SIMCA and produced the SIMCA Vedette

    All my other pugs have been produced in England.

    Great story, Dijon16
    Regards,

    Simon

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug206gti View Post
    G'day,

    Torana

    Sunbird

    Capri

    Zeta

    Arcardiapane

    Lightburn

    Hartnett

    Nota

    PRB

    Purvis

    Australian Six

    Bushranger

    Buchanan

    to name a few...

    ever heard of them?

    All Australian.
    You also forgot Kaditcha..........
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Simca acquired Ford France but in '54 moved into the Chrysler camp and got into design interchange with the Rootes group that Chrysler also acquired. The Simca 1000 was the last Simca designed by Fiat. Fiat then set up their own French subsidiary leaving Chrysler in full ownership of Simca.
    Chrysler in trouble, sold off its European subsidiaries. Simca, now Chrysler France, was saved by the French Government, as previously were CitroŽn, by pushing them under the Peugeot wing.
    So the Chrysler Centura was a Simca? Funny that we don't seem to have lots of Centura fans on the Simca pages....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    You also forgot Kaditcha..........


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    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    You also forgot Kaditcha..........
    Guzundheit!
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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Here's a picture of Yo with Eureka. Note that this Australian car was built by an Aussie/Pom for an Aussie/Frog to a British design (Nova) using a German chassis, engine and gearbox and a Japanese trip computer. The Recaro seats were German but at least the body was moulded in Victoria.
    http://www.globalfreed.net/citfiles/eureka0001b.jpg
    Gerry, when you finally work out how to get into it, is that what they call a "Eureka" moment?

    John

    Looks great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    The proposed merger between Hartnett and Lightburn was called off because all you got was hartburn.
    They probably ran in to trouble trying to cement the relationship.
    If you've got too much traction, you haven't got enough horse power ...




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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Guzundheit!
    Thank you!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Gerry, when you finally work out how to get into it, is that what they call a "Eureka" moment?

    John

    Looks great.
    It was easy to get into. Yo just laid on the pavement alongside and rolled in. Getting out was another matter. it was possible to lock the lid from outside when removing the key. Once inside there was no way of unlocking it. On one memorable occasion Yo forgot this 'feature' and drove to Balmain Police station and hooted until a cop came out. She handed him the keys through the plastic flexible side window and explained that you cannot open a sardine can from the inside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    So the Chrysler Centura was a Simca? Funny that we don't seem to have lots of Centura fans on the Simca pages....
    Think it started life as a Chrysler and was marketed as both a Simca and Talbot in Europe.
    I had a Centura and it was everything a P plate driver shouldn't have (in 6cyl form), but it taught me a few things.
    Was probably not too bad as a 4cyl, all that iron hanging out the front as a 6cyl didn't do much for the balance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    The proposed merger between Hartnett and Lightburn was called off because all you got was hartburn.
    I'm sure it was because Hartnett couldn't come up with a concrete proposal. I believe his company was just holden on, anyway it all came out in the wash.......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Most young non motoring enthusiasts, no matter what nationality, would not have heard of many by gone marques.

    I too drove a Purvis Eureka once. The guy who owned it got injured in a Go Cart accident and got carted of to hospital (was that a pun?). I was elected to drive his Purvis Eureka home for him. Luckily it was the model with the detachable roof otherwise I would never have fitted in the thing, it was an experience that I'll never forget.......for all the wrong reasons!
    Cheers Renomad

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