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  1. #26
    UFO
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    If you buy a car in Europe you will then have the joyful experience of trying to get insurance for it as a non Euro resident. Days of fun and laughter - or is it tears? I'm lead to believe.

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  2. #27
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    UFO is right again and it is not easy to go through the paperwork of buying and selling, if you do not have a place of residence in France.
    The basic rules are
    When you buy the car you fill in a multipart form with the seller and then if the car being classic still has old departmental number plates you have to get it re-registered in your name at a residential address, with the current national plates. When you buy the vendor is required only to provide a Contrôle Technique stating the condition of the vehicle, not more than 6 months old. You have to present a current CT to re register it which means that you have to make sure that it will pass the tests. If it is on the equivalent of classic car plates you will be limited on your usage and need to check the current rules. If you want full insurance for everyday driving it is hard to get and expensive for classic cars. On the hand if you want coverage as a classic car that is much cheaper but you must have insured in France an everyday car and limit use to Classic car events.
    As a non-European you wil have to produce at the Prefecture for registration your ID, presumably a passport and your residence details. if they are thorough they will ask also for your Titre de Sejour, your right of residence.
    If you want to buy a car for export, you put that on the multipart form and the local registration is then cancelled so you can't drive it around.

    Some Australians have been able through friendships to rent interesting cars from owners particularly in Holland and Germany. I hold a GS Rallye for that purpose but it is only insured for Classic Car Club events.
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    Of course if you win Lotto in a big way then it's a moot point. As by necessity you'll require a Monaco residence, for tax purposes and a nice estate in Provence with adequate stabling. Brendan.

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    First you have to buy a ticket.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    UFO is right again and it is not easy to go through the paperwork of buying and selling, if you do not have a place of residence in France.
    The basic rules are
    When you buy the car you fill in a multipart form with the seller and then if the car being classic still has old departmental number plates you have to get it re-registered in your name at a residential address, with the current national plates. When you buy the vendor is required only to provide a Contrôle Technique stating the condition of the vehicle, not more than 6 months old. You have to present a current CT to re register it which means that you have to make sure that it will pass the tests. If it is on the equivalent of classic car plates you will be limited on your usage and need to check the current rules. If you want full insurance for everyday driving it is hard to get and expensive for classic cars. On the hand if you want coverage as a classic car that is much cheaper but you must have insured in France an everyday car and limit use to Classic car events.
    As a non-European you wil have to produce at the Prefecture for registration your ID, presumably a passport and your residence details. if they are thorough they will ask also for your Titre de Sejour, your right of residence.
    If you want to buy a car for export, you put that on the multipart form and the local registration is then cancelled so you can't drive it around.

    Some Australians have been able through friendships to rent interesting cars from owners particularly in Holland and Germany. I hold a GS Rallye for that purpose but it is only insured for Classic Car Club events.
    Thanks for the buying & selling tips for France Gerry
    Regards Col

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  6. #31
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    Col, just a question


    Are you just interested in the cars?


    The Italian National Auto (Museo Nazionale dell'Automobile) in Turin is what I think you have on your list.


    Not far away in Via Nizza, a district of Turin, is a national treasure where Fiat made cars for 60 years from the ground floor up to the test track five levels up on the roof. Closed in 82? but since repourpesed and well worth a visit. Little in the way of cars but from an architechtual sense very interesting, it had a Hotel that you could stay at - not short of parking if you were going to Museo Nazionale dell'Automobile up the road.


    Lingotto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Often the factories that create the cars are just as equally a marvel as the cars they produce. The way they repourposed the old Fiat factory is a good example of not knocking down old buildings.


    Your visits to MB & VAG in Germany will illustrate this, Gunter Henn's Gläserne Manufaktur in Dresden is a must. Bang in the middle of town it is a good day out with the rest of the day spent in the old baroque city renowned for craftsmanship. Just make sure you book ahead, Die Gläserne Manufaktur


    The facility at Wolfsburg is really neat and the Glass Silos are very smart. Takes a while to get around the Pavillions.


    I see you have listed Horch. Not that most will be interested but the 'dirty work' for the Phaeton plant in Dresden is done up the 'Silberstraße' over in Zwickau where the Trabant was made until the wall came down and VW took over the facility building a new plant. Take a look at Colditz Castle if you do the trip over, yes the one in the movie it is a real castle where they kept the 'troublesome' POW officers. Facinating what the 'lads' got up to under the Germans noses. There is a youth hostel / hotel but I am not sure you would care to slum it, clean but spartan, most importantly cheap. From there Mladá Boleslav is over the mountain so I'd keep going west, its 1/2 hr NE of Prage so a wander through Prague etc is recomended along the way. Koprivnice from there to the home of Ledwinka's 'Czech Secret Weapon' is a problem as for that you will cross to the other side of the Czech Republic to get there, the Tatra Technical Museum has an aircooled W18 diesel engine, awesome for early 1940s technology. It is well worth the extra push East as there are plenty of exibits.


    my 2 cents

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fangbosun View Post
    Col, just a question


    Are you just interested in the cars?


    The Italian National Auto (Museo Nazionale dell'Automobile) in Turin is what I think you have on your list.


    Not far away in Via Nizza, a district of Turin, is a national treasure where Fiat made cars for 60 years from the ground floor up to the test track five levels up on the roof. Closed in 82? but since repourpesed and well worth a visit. Little in the way of cars but from an architechtual sense very interesting, it had a Hotel that you could stay at - not short of parking if you were going to Museo Nazionale dell'Automobile up the road.


    Lingotto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Often the factories that create the cars are just as equally a marvel as the cars they produce. The way they repourposed the old Fiat factory is a good example of not knocking down old buildings.


    Your visits to MB & VAG in Germany will illustrate this, Gunter Henn's Gläserne Manufaktur in Dresden is a must. Bang in the middle of town it is a good day out with the rest of the day spent in the old baroque city renowned for craftsmanship. Just make sure you book ahead, Die Gläserne Manufaktur


    The facility at Wolfsburg is really neat and the Glass Silos are very smart. Takes a while to get around the Pavillions.


    I see you have listed Horch. Not that most will be interested but the 'dirty work' for the Phaeton plant in Dresden is done up the 'Silberstraße' over in Zwickau where the Trabant was made until the wall came down and VW took over the facility building a new plant. Take a look at Colditz Castle if you do the trip over, yes the one in the movie it is a real castle where they kept the 'troublesome' POW officers. Facinating what the 'lads' got up to under the Germans noses. There is a youth hostel / hotel but I am not sure you would care to slum it, clean but spartan, most importantly cheap. From there Mladá Boleslav is over the mountain so I'd keep going west, its 1/2 hr NE of Prage so a wander through Prague etc is recomended along the way. Koprivnice from there to the home of Ledwinka's 'Czech Secret Weapon' is a problem as for that you will cross to the other side of the Czech Republic to get there, the Tatra Technical Museum has an aircooled W18 diesel engine, awesome for early 1940s technology. It is well worth the extra push East as there are plenty of exibits.


    my 2 cents
    Thanks for your input Fangbosum will take all that on board. It was basically a car enthusiast holiday but it would be nice to break the trip up with some interesting history as well such as Colditz Castle.
    Regards Col

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  8. #33
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    The Louwman museum in the Hague is excellent.
    Some pictures from my recent visit:
    The Louwman Museum « Classic Jalopy
    also from Autoworld in Brussels
    Autoworld Brussels « Classic Jalopy
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    Quote Originally Posted by brycedunn View Post
    The Louwman museum in the Hague is excellent.
    Some pictures from my recent visit:
    The Louwman Museum « Classic Jalopy
    also from Autoworld in Brussels
    Autoworld Brussels « Classic Jalopy
    Thanks Bryce I have added those two museums to my list, they both look like interesting places to visit.
    Regards Col

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  10. #35
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    Thanks for every ones input so far, been doing a little more planning, this is what I have so far.

    My plan is to go to Europe for the months of May, June, July 2016. So will not be able to do the first three events or the last two events.

    I have got a list of date for the following events for 2014, you will also notice that Dutch TT & Goodwood fall on the same weekend in 2014, hoping not so for 2016 but mostly events accure around the same time every year.

    Monte Carlo Rally 14-19 Jan 2014
    Historic Monte Carlo Rally 22-29 Jan 2014
    Retromobile Paris 5-9 Feb 2014
    Monaco Historic Grand Prix 09-12 May 2014
    Monaco F1 Grand Prix 22-26 May 2014
    Isle of Man TT 24 May-6 June 2014
    Le Mans 24 Hours 14-15 June 2014
    Goodwood Festival of Speed 26-29 June 2014
    Dutch TT (MotoGP) 26-29 June 2014
    Le Man Classic 4-6 July 2014
    Goodwood Revival 11-13 July 2014
    Silverstone Classic 27-29 Jul 2014
    Automedon Classic Car Show 11-12 October 2014
    L’Epoqauto Lyon 8-10 Nov 2014
    1000 Lakes Rally ?????
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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  11. #36
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    This is how the Car Enthusiast Holiday looks so far.

    Events to attend:

    Monte Carlo Rally 14-19 Jan 2014
    Historic Monte Carlo Rally 22-29 Jan 2014
    Retromobile Paris 5-9 Feb 2014
    Monaco Historic Grand Prix 09-12 May 2014
    Monaco F1 Grand Prix 22-26 May 2014
    Isle of Man TT 24 May-6 June 2014
    Le Mans 24 Hours 14-15 June 2014
    Goodwood Festival of Speed 26-29 June 2014
    Dutch TT (MotoGP) 26-29 June 2014
    Le Man Classic 4-6 July 2014
    Goodwood Revival 11-13 July 2014
    Silverstone Classic 27-29 Jul 2014
    Angouleme Circuit Des Remparts Races 3rd Weekend Sep
    Automedon Classic Car Show 11-12 October 2014
    L’Epoqauto Lyon 8-10 Nov 2014


    Motor Museums:

    Schumpf Collection, Mulhouse, France
    Cité de l'Automobile - Home | Cité de l'Automobile : Collection Schlumpf - Site officiel - gérée par Culturespaces, M

    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Ci...m&z=16&iwloc=A

    Museum of the 24 Hours of Le Mans, Le Mans, France
    Musée des 24h Circuit de la Sarthe

    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Mu...15000&t=m&z=12


    Le Manoir De L’Automobile Loheac France
    MANOIR AUTOMOBILE DU VILLAGE DE LOHEAC

    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Le...m&z=16&iwloc=A

    Citromuseum, Castellane, France
    Presentation

    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Ca...rance&t=m&z=15

    The Matra Museum, Romorantin (Loire Valley), France
    FIA Heritage Museums: Historic Vehicles around the World

    Auto Musee Reims France
    http://www.musee-automobile-reims-champagne.com/en

    Chateau de Sauvigny les Beaune, France
    Pont michel Beaune - CHATEAU DE SAVIGNY : vin, 21, Bourgogne, Cote d'Or, automobile, aviation, musée

    Royal Car Museum, Monaco
    The Prince of Monaco's Automobile Collection - European Car Magazine

    Mercedes Museum, Stuttgart, Germany
    Mercedes-Benz Classic Home - Museum - Overview

    Porsche Museum, Stuttgart, Germany
    The Porsche Museum

    Auto & Technik Museum, Sinsheim, Germany
    http://www.technik-museum.de/

    Volkswagen Museum, Wolfsburg, Germany
    :: Volkswagen AutoMuseum :: Home

    BMW Museum, Munich, Germany
    BMW Welt, Museum und Werk

    August Horch Museum, Zwickau, Germany
    August Horch Museum in Zwickau

    Classic Remise, Berlin, Germany
    Classic Remise - Berlin | Düsseldorf

    Dutch National Auto Museum, The Hague, Netherlands
    Louwman Museum - Dutch National Motor Museum | Motoring Museums' Lighthouse

    Laverda Museum, Lisse, Netherlands
    Laverda Museum

    The Louwman Museum, The Hague, Netherlands
    Louwman Museum - Welkom bij het Louwman Museum Den Haag

    The Nicolis Museum, Villafranca di Veronia, Italy
    Nicolis Museum, cars, technology , mechanics, Villafranca, Verona, Garda lake

    Italian National Auto Museum, Turin, Italy
    Museo dell'automobile

    Mille Miglia Museum, Brescia, Italy
    Home

    Museo Tazio Nuvolari, Mantura, Italy
    Museo Tazio Nuvolari - Home

    Ferrari Museums, Maranello & Modena, Italy
    Ferrari Museum - Maranello | Ferrari Museum ? Maranello

    Lamborghini Museum, Santa Agata, Italy
    Lamborghini Museum

    Donnington Grand Prix Collection, Donnington, England
    The Donington Grand Prix Collection - Donington Park Racing Circuit

    British Motor Cycle Museum, Brickenhill, England
    Conference Venues, Venue Hire Coventry, Birmingham & Solihull - National Motorcycle Museum

    Morgan Motor Company, Malvern, England
    Morgan Motor Company

    Bentley Wildfowl & Motor Museum, Halland, England
    Home - Bentley Country Park

    Brooklands Museum, Weybridge, Surrey, England
    Brooklands Museum

    Jaguar Heritage Museum, Coventry, England
    Jaguar Heritage. Museum

    Beaulieu Car Museum Hampshire England
    National Motor Museum at Beaulieu in Hampshire, Southern England

    Riga Motor Museum, Riga, Latvia
    Rîgas Motormuzejs - PAR MUMS

    MC Collection Motor Cycle Museum, Sollentuna, Sweden
    MC Collection - HEM

    Mahy Museum, Leuze-en-Hainaut, Belgium
    FIA Heritage Museums: Historic Vehicles around the World

    The Belgium National Auto Museum, Brussels, Belgium
    Autoworld Brussels

    Spa Francorchamps Racetrack Museum, Stavelot, Belgium
    Musée du Circuit de Spa Francorchamps à Stavelot | Abbaye de Stavelot

    Auto World, Brussels, Belgium
    Autoworld Brussels

    Tatra Technical Museum, Koprivnice, Czech Republic
    ODKRYJTE TAJEMSTVÍ ORIGINÁLU - Regionální muzeum Kopøivnice, o.p.s.

    Skoda Museum, Mlada Boleslav, Czech Republic
    ?KODA Muzeum in Mladá Boleslav - ?KODA

    Museu de Caramulo, Caramulo, Portugal
    Museu do Caramulo

    Museo Historia Automocion de Salamanca, Salamanca, Spain
    MHAS | Museo de la Automoción de Salamanca

    Conservatoire National de Vehicles Historiques, Diekirch, Luxembourg
    Conservatoire National de Véhicules Historiques | Autosmusée Diekirch


    Places of interest to visit:

    Molsheim Home of Bugatti https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Mo...rance&t=m&z=14

    Jim Clarke Room, Duns Scotland
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Du...ingdom&t=m&z=7

    Joey Dunlop Memorial Gardens, Ballymoney, Northern Ireland
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Jo...ngdom&t=m&z=14

    Millau Viaduct, Millau, Southern France
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Mi...15000&t=m&z=13


    Car show rooms Champs Elysees, Paris, France
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Ch...rance&t=m&z=15

    Monza, Italy
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Mo...Italy&t=m&z=13

    Spa Belguim
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Sp...lgium&t=m&z=15

    Senna Memorial, Imola, Italy
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Im...Italy&t=m&z=13

    Werner Schafer Renault, Nohn, Germany
    Renault Partner - Auto Schäfer KG - Herzlichen Willkommen auf unserer Homepage für unseren Betrieb in Nohn und auch in Daun!


    Must do drives:

    Stelvio Pass, South Tyrol, Italy
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=St...+Pass&t=m&z=10

    Route 500 Scharzwald Hochstrasse, Black forest. Germany
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Sc...rmany&t=m&z=12

    Nurburgring Germany https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=nu...rgring&t=m&z=8

    Autobahn, Germany

    Hahntennjoch, Vorarlberg, Austria
    Silvrettastasse, Vorarlberg, Austria
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Si...stria&t=m&z=13

    The Col la Bonnette, Alps Maritime
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Th...nette&t=m&z=11

    Route Nepolean, Alps Maritime

    Furka Pass, Central Swiss Alps
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Fu...+Pass&t=m&z=12

    Klassen Pass, Central Swiss Alps
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Kl...enpass&t=m&z=9

    Bastia to Ajaccio Corsica
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Ba...pRkIBA&t=m&z=8

    Buttertubs Pass, North Yorkshire, England


    Betws-y-Coed triangle, North Wales
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Be...ngdom&t=m&z=10

    Top gear Test Track
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=To...15000&t=m&z=13


    Transfagarasan Romania
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Tr...mania&t=m&z=13


    Non Car Things:

    Hadrian’s Wall, England
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Ha...=m&z=8&iwloc=A

    Windsor Castle, Windsor, England
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Wi...ngdom&t=m&z=14

    City of Bath, England
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Ci...ngdom&t=m&z=13

    Stonehenge, Amesbury, England
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=St...henge&t=m&z=15

    The Pont du Gard roman bridge, France
    https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Th...=15000&t=m&z=8
    bluey504 and UFO like this.
    Regards Col

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  12. #37
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    The Roman theatre at Orange is something else....and if you were headed to Greece I would have a host of other suggestions for classic antiquity sites.

    Walled city of Carcassonne in Languedoc is worth a visit.

    I've driven over the Millau viaduct twice now and it's not as impressive when you're on it, as it is when you are underneath it on the valley floor.
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    yes, but why a duck?

  14. #39
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    Col

    I think you need to link up with a production crew and produce a video documentary for the trip, perhaps even have the luxury of up front money and assistance, if you don't mind your trip being commercialized, but that would be sure to deal with security and last minute changes - ticketing and 1st class entrance to venues. Still I can understand it is more of an adventure and fun to do the whole thing as a private trip.

    Full marks for your dream trip mate...

    Wish you well.

    Ken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Col

    I think you need to link up with a production crew and produce a video documentary for the trip, perhaps even have the luxury of up front money and assistance, if you don't mind your trip being commercialized, but that would be sure to deal with security and last minute changes - ticketing and 1st class entrance to venues. Still I can understand it is more of an adventure and fun to do the whole thing as a private trip.

    Full marks for your dream trip mate...

    Wish you well.

    Ken.
    Thanks Ken,

    I was planning on doing the trip in 2016. I have this huge list of places to visit, I now have the big job of putting it into an itinerary.
    Regards Col

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  16. #41
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    I can't see you doing all of that in 3 months without a private jet and helicopter to move you around. But I am looking forward to your itinerary with bated breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ianrobbo View Post
    I can't see you doing all of that in 3 months without a private jet and helicopter to move you around. But I am looking forward to your itinerary with bated breath.
    Yes you are right, I was having a look this morning how I was going to fit all this in and I have decided to cull a few things out. Event wise I will be starting with the Monaco Historic Grand Prix in may and finishing with the Silverstone Classic in July.

    Monaco Historic Grand Prix 09-12 May 2014
    Isle of Man TT 24 May-6 June 2014
    Le Mans 24 Hours 14-15 June 2014
    Goodwood Festival of Speed 26-29 June 2014
    Le Man Classic 4-6 July 2014
    Goodwood Revival 11-13 July 2014
    Silverstone Classic 27-29 Jul 2014

    My Plan is to go to Europe at the start of May end of April and return at the end of July start of August.

    I was also thinking of renaming it the Ultimate Classic Car Enthusiast European Holiday as I have removed most of the contemporary events.
    Regards Col

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  18. #43
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    A nice set of photos from the Louwman Museum in The Hague on Ultimate Car Page today.

    Welcome to the Louwman Museum - The Louwman Museum
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    I will see you at Le Mans for the 24 Hours, and the Matra Museum in the Loire Valley, and Sauvigny de Beaune and Schlumpf. And BMW and Auto und Technic when I get to Germany. It's going to be a busy 3 weeks!
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    Its been awhile since I have posted on this thread but I have been doing a little bit more research (The weather here is wet and windy so not much else I can do)

    I have found out that the Le Man Classic is run every two years which I knew and also the Monaco Historic Grand Prix runs every two years which I did not know.

    The trouble is Le Man Classic runs on even years and Monaco Historics runs on odd years which makes it extremely hard to attend both events in the same trip. I think I would prefer the Le Man Classic as the cars there are more my thing, so I now need something to replace the Monaco Historics.

    On the plus side I have worked out the first week of the Itinerary. I will post it up for scrutiny and ideas when I have done some more.
    bluey504 likes this.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  21. #46
    COL
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    Hi all

    This is trip is back on the agenda with a plan to do in 2020.

    My last post said that the Le Man Classic and the Monaco Historic Grand Prix were on in different years, I have since found out this is not true.

    I have started my itinerary and have the first couple of weeks worked out. There are a few uncertainties like dates of events in 2020 that are not yet confirmed so I have just guessed them.

    At present I'm working on the logistics of getting from Monaco/Nice to Isle of Man and trying to fill in a couple of weeks. I'm open to any suggestions of the best route to take in the most museums and items of interest to the classic car enthusiast.

    Would like to keep the travelling to say 300 to 400 Km per day
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  22. #47
    Fellow Frogger!
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    A companion museum to Sinsheim is the Speyer museum which has a very good space technology hall as well as many cars trains and planes and some interesting organs.
    In the UK the Haynes International Motor Museum is also excellent.
    In the lake district you can also find the Campbell family cars and boats not far from Conniston water

  23. #48
    COL
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    Have done a bit more towards this tonight, feel free to read and add suggestions
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  24. #49
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Col I see you will be in Turin, see if you can book a Fiat and guess now Alfa factory tour. I've attempted this several times but never made it due not enough notice or during summer close down....but this was back in the 90s.
    You have the Germans covered in Stuggart and of course obvious in Marenello!

    Looks like a fantastic journey.

    Dimi

    Sent from my SM-G900I using aussiefrogs mobile app

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