Police Monitoring GPS Units??????
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default Police Monitoring GPS Units??????

    Report tonight on Bigpond news about a stolen ute being driven at high speed in SE Queensland.

    "Police monitored the vehicle's GPS as it sped along the highway, reportedly weaving through traffic, hit another car and stopped for fuel. Police did not pursue the car."

    Now whats going on here?
    Has the journalist got it wrong or can Police monitor a vehicles GPS?
    Was the unit a standard fitting to the vehicle or was it a stand alone unit that had relay via "phone to owner?

    If the readings from the GPS are to be used by the Police as evidence could the general public also use data from a GPS enabled data logger (TrackStick is one example) to disprove fraudalent claims of speeding?

    Paul

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Nothing to suggest GPS tracking in Courier Mail article I just read.

    I know Police have used GPS data after the event (eg accidents) when they had physical access to the unit, but tracking is news to me. Perhaps the journalist got it wrong. Another first?

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    It's more likely the vehicle had a "back to base" type unit - as commonly found on concrete trucks - so the orifice people could accurately determine where the staff were, in relation to when they might arrive at a site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    Nothing to suggest GPS tracking in Courier Mail article I just read.

    I know Police have used GPS data after the event (eg accidents) when they had physical access to the unit, but tracking is news to me. Perhaps the journalist got it wrong. Another first?
    Yes I was thinking it might have been downloaded after the event too.
    But does your average TomTom actually record data?

    Have heard of car computer data being accessed and used though.

    Paul

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    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    It's more likely the vehicle had a "back to base" type unit - as commonly found on concrete trucks - so the orifice people could accurately determine where the staff were, in relation to when they might arrive at a site.
    Bad choice of vehicle to steal in that case, bet they were kicking themselves.

    Paul

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    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Could it have been a GPS enabled theif alarm?
    Some of those can relay the cars whereabouts back to the owner's 'phone.
    Paul

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504
    Bad choice of vehicle to steal in that case, bet they were kicking themselves.
    I doubt it was a situation thought through very deeply beforehand.

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    Icon6 Many things are possible in todays electronic devices.

    Could be a tracking device fitted privately, there are various tracking devices using Global Positioning to determine their location. Many Police vehicles are fitted with such devices, that log progress, also anti Hijack devices fitted for executive tracking and protection, same with security transport of valuables and transport companies like Linfox and others have tracking and logging GPS style units fitted. Things have come a long way since the days of Lowjack that I evaluated in the USA and already then there was lots of convergence of technology star trak then was emerging on the Australian scene. Even humble phones can now pinpoint themselves with data logging.

    Military hardware and technology can be piggy backed onto picking up on commercial data tracking and some devices have technology that can work well as a homing device for all sorts of weird and wonderful tricks.

    technology is sometimes a double edged sword for some. Then of course there is murphy's law that intervenes and stuffs the lot up and the trackers get nothing.

    Hidden technology capability in commercial equipment and ability to exploit other vulnerbilities may well be behind the fairly recent Australian and USA reluctance to allow use of chinese Huwei electronics and communications gear. Especially since the Chinese demonstrated their ability to target spy Sattelites and destroy them.

    But then I am only guessing!!

    ken

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Many companies fit GPS tracking to their fleets. It allows them to know at any time where the vehicles are, so they can direct the nearest to a service call for instance. It also allows them to make sure their staff are not taking two hour lunch breaks!

    Here is an example.

    http://www.navmanwireless.com.au/fle...ment-solutions
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    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    My understanding was that it was a council ute, that was carjacked. The council obviously must of fitted the GPS to be able to track the vehicle during work hours (or otherwise) as people have suggested. The guy who was carjacked would've notified the council pretty quick smart, so that may have something to do with the police getting access.
    KB


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    As I heard it they tracked the vehicle from the GPS function of a mobile 'phone which is even scarier in a Big Brother sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post
    As I heard it they tracked the vehicle from the GPS function of a mobile 'phone which is even scarier in a Big Brother sense.
    Some interesting discussions on this forum, would need verifying though.

    http://www.gpsaustralia.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=12183

    be sure to check out: http://www.themobiletracker.com/english/index.html


    Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

    "Mobile phone tracking refers to the attaining of the current position of a mobile phone, stationary or moving. Localization may occur either via multilateration of radio signals between (several) radio towers of the network and the phone, or simply via GPS. To locate the phone using multilateration of radio signals, it must emit at least the roaming signal to contact the next nearby antenna tower, but the process does not require an active call. GSM is based on the signal strength to nearby antenna masts.[1]

    Mobile positioning, which includes location based service that discloses the actual coordinates of a mobile phone bearer, is a technology used by telecommunication companies to approximate where a mobile phone, and thereby also its user (bearer), temporarily resides. The more properly applied term locating refers to the purpose rather than a positioning process. Such service is offered as an option of the class of location-based services (LBS).[2]"

    Apparently mobile phone tracking is used for monitoring vehicular traffic flow, consumers shopping patterns and even the spread of Maleria.

    Paul

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    GPS is a passive system in that only the receiver knows where it is. There is a class of devices overt and covert that then transmit that position back to base where the vehicle can be tracked on a map.
    The mobile phone network has to know where the phone is to be able to send communications to it via the nearest cell transmitter. You are are transferred seamlessly from cell to cell by some cunning software. Now that there are so many mobile phones in use the cells havebecome quite small especially in cities. That means the phone company has an approximate position of every phone turned on, but not necessarily on a call and that is within a few seconds of real time. They now provide that data to public security operations and sell it for commercial purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    GPS is a passive system in that only the receiver knows where it is. There is a class of devices overt and covert that then transmit that position back to base where the vehicle can be tracked on a map.
    The mobile phone network has to know where the phone is to be able to send communications to it via the nearest cell transmitter. You are are transferred seamlessly from cell to cell by some cunning software. Now that there are so many mobile phones in use the cells havebecome quite small especially in cities. That means the phone company has an approximate position of every phone turned on, but not necessarily on a call and that is within a few seconds of real time. They now provide that data to public security operations and sell it for commercial purposes.
    The thread title "... GPS Units " was poorly chosen.

    However tracking technology is alive and being used for good purposes in the example case. But it's equally possible to use it for not so good purposes.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-0...d-ipad/4249202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Hidden technology capability in commercial equipment and ability to exploit other vulnerbilities may well be behind the fairly recent Australian and USA reluctance to allow use of chinese Huwei electronics and communications gear. Especially since the Chinese demonstrated their ability to target spy Sattelites and destroy them.



    ken
    There is a lot of truth in that Ken. I know of a NSW govt dept that had some Huwei routers on loan for assessment only to suddenly find that they were "off contract", in that they were not approved for purchase.

    It is alleged that another NSW govt dept also doing testing, found that somehow or another there was a "back door" in the router that enabled access to the router from outside. Hmmmmm....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504 View Post
    But does your average TomTom actually record data?

    Paul
    i think any car GPS will record a certain amount of recent trip coordinates.
    after all, that is how the trip computer function works, and i would think all car GPS have that sort of thing.
    very likely they record the data even when you have switched the feature Off.

    recall a couple of years back a father/son team convicted of murdering some guy in WA.
    the police suspected they had killed the person then moved the body, so they seized the GPS, and sent if to the manufacturer to retrieve trip coordinates, which they then followed to some rural property and a spot only metres where the body was buried. i assumed that the need to send the unit to the manufacturer was because the the logging feature was either Off, or the data Cleared, by the perpetrators (albeit unsuccessfully).

    the only way to be sure of not leaving that data in the GPS is to turn the unit off while on the trip, and in the case of a cell phone, remove the battery as well, as it is possible to remotely install software on cell phones which allow them to transmit data/voice without even appearing to be on. NYC police busted a bunch of mafioso that way several years back.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    For Pete's sake, it was a bloomin' Council ute, not the Mona Lisa. As Michael said, it's tracked so they can be sure workers are leaning on their shovels at the correct site - not the public bar down the street!

    If you "do" concrete, a call while the truck is enroute will yield similar live data "Oh yes, that's 54. He's passing 300 Wallaby St, about two and a half kilometres away. Should be onsite in five minutes." It's bloody handy.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    There is a lot of truth in that Ken. I know of a NSW govt dept that had some Huwei routers on loan for assessment only to suddenly find that they were "off contract", in that they were not approved for purchase.

    It is alleged that another NSW govt dept also doing testing, found that somehow or another there was a "back door" in the router that enabled access to the router from outside. Hmmmmm....

    CISCO routers were ordered the following week!
    And the whole country uses Microsoft........more back doors than some well known pubs!
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    About 5 years ago...Telstra put what they called GPS units in their vehicles to tell the 'watchers' where their vehicles were at any time.
    This was supposedly so that the automated ticket of work system knew where they were so that the next job can be earmarked for them.
    This may have been partly true... but I know that on one occasion that I heard about, a team leader rang up a driver and told him he was speeding as he was monitoring his GPS unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renault8&10 View Post
    My understanding was that it was a council ute, that was carjacked. The council obviously must of fitted the GPS to be able to track the vehicle during work hours (or otherwise) as people have suggested. The guy who was carjacked would've notified the council pretty quick smart, so that may have something to do with the police getting access.
    If the vehicle was electropnically tracked, the most likely means of tracking to me would have been if one of the workers left his smart phone in the ute and that was tracked

  21. #21
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    I think they only track vehicles "electropnically" in Queensland. There are a good number of "fleet" systems on the market for tracking vehicles, most started with armoured cash vans years ago. Some of them are good enough to not only know where you are, but tell what music you are playing, record all your phone calls and know when your parking meter has expired. That's without mentioning the tracking system on your mobile phone. All mobile navigation devices have a memory as well. It can still be extracted after you've mashed the Tom Tom with a hammer or burnt it.

    Isn't technology wonderful?
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 15th October 2012 at 10:23 PM. Reason: addition
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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    I think they only track vehicles "electropnically" in Queensland. There are a good number of "fleet" systems on the market for tracking vehicles, most started with armoured cash vans years ago. Some of them are good enough to not only know where you are, but tell what music you are playing, record all your phone calls and know when your parking meter has expired. That's without mentioning the tracking system on your mobile phone. All mobile navigation devices have a memory as well. It can still be extracted after you've mashed the Tom Tom with a hammer or burnt it.

    Isn't technology wonderful?
    Depends on what one is doing. A cab mounted video in a recent tragic head-on between a car and a semi trailer cleared the semi driver as it showed showed the car crossed onto the wrong side of the road. Does very little for those affected by the tragedy though.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I suspect the video footage would provide ample warning to the general public about the dangers of driving on the wrong side of the road.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Even more dangerous when the on coming traffic out weighs you 40 to 1 (or what ever)

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