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  1. #101
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I have tried everything that I know to eliminate the engine noise between 3000 and 4000 rpm. There is now only one course of action remaining. Everything has to come out of the engine bay and an internal examination is necessary.
    I have started to day-------------------geez I was not looking forward to this course of action! @@#%$$!*&&%! etc.

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    Cheers Gerry

  2. #102
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Motor is now out and on the engine stand. With the sump removed and a bit of levering with a large screw driver it is now blatantly obvious that the noise is number two and number four big ends.
    Will measure up tomorrow to see what undersize shells are required!
    All else looks good! So much for using parts that supposedly are good!!!!!!
    Last edited by gerrypro; 10th March 2014 at 07:36 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

  3. #103
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The motor is now out and I have measured the crank. It needs new shells for big ends+.25mm. So I will do both mains and bigends. The shells have already been ordered from CX Basis along with +.12mm thrust bearings.
    There is a fellow in Colac that reco's engines. I have had good reports from the boys in the Escort Club so I think at this stage I will use his services!
    Cheers Gerry

  4. #104
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    Hi Gerry so with your engine you'll supply the parts and get Colac to grind the crank, fit the new bearings so the engine will come back to you reconditioned and ready to fit?

    Good to follow your progress!

    Regards
    John

  5. #105
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I think that I will supply him with a spare block and some spare rods! That way I do not have to completely dismantle the entire engine. The pistons and head are all in good order. I will then fit the bearings and crank into the original block and rods.Provided that the rods measure up with no ovality.
    I will also take the opportunity to reco a rack and replace it whilst the engine bay is clear. I have just ordered a seal kit and a gear side piston for the spare rack.
    Turns out that the RHD piston is exactly the same as the one in a LHD rack!! Lucky???? Or good planning on the part of Citroen!
    Cheers Gerry

  6. #106
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The Bearing shells arrived today! That is 5 days since I ordered them! WOW CX-basis are very fast!
    while the motor is out I am going to do the steering rack as well! It is easier to get to this way. I have ordered a new seal set new dust boots and a new piston ram for the rack tooth side. This one gets corrosion from condensation on the lower side of it just out side and into the area of the seals!
    Should be fun fitting the new seals but the rest of the rack is very straight forward!
    Cheers Gerry

  7. #107
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    RF Precision Heads in Colac have done a magnificent job on the Crank regrind. Bearings are now fitted and the sump is back on! I am looking forward to a very smooth motor. ( Fingers Crossed)
    Cheers Gerry

  8. #108
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    Did you carefully inspect the rocker arms? I have been starting to see significant wear on D motors. Wouldn't be surprised to hear the same 8n a CX lump.

    Via the aussiefrogs App

  9. #109
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Yes the head and sundry parts were done the first time round and are still all very good. The rocker faces were ground then and the shafts checked for wear, I learned to pay attention to these areas through dealing with TA motors that had done qiute high mieages. Thankfully D and CX are a lot more robust in this department!
    Cheers Gerry

  10. #110
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Engine now back together and awaiting reinstallation.
    Whilst under the car I notices LHM coming from the rack damper adjustment screw!
    This can only mean one thing----A leaking steering rack!
    Having a spare rack that I stripped down to "learn" about CX racks I noticed that the small piston was heavily marked by corrosion damage. A news one and a set of seals have been ordered from CX Basis. They arrived very quickly!
    The rack is a little easier to remove once the engine is out of the way, but is still fiddly clearing the High pressure pipes with out bending any. Once the rack was out and dismantled the best of the parts were chosen. I turned out that apart from the corrosion damage to the piston that the spare rack was better in all other respects except the large piston. So now there is one very good rack assembled and a container of left over reject parts.
    Fitting the new seals was time consuming and exacting especially getting the Teflon inner seal to sit in its bore. But all worked out!
    Note the end of the old piston that had to be ground away to retrieve the heavy circlip that retains the rack thrust pad inside the piston!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04069.jpg   Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04070.jpg   Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04071.jpg   Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04072.jpg   Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04073.jpg   Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04074.jpg  

    Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics-dsc04075.jpg  
    Cheers Gerry

  11. #111
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Engine now back together and awaiting reinstallation.
    Whilst under the car I notices LHM coming from the rack damper adjustment screw!
    This can only mean one thing----A leaking steering rack!
    Having a spare rack that I stripped down to "learn" about CX racks I noticed that the small piston was heavily marked by corrosion damage. A news one and a set of seals have been ordered from CX Basis. They arrived very quickly!
    The rack is a little easier to remove once the engine is out of the way, but is still fiddly clearing the High pressure pipes with out bending any. Once the rack was out and dismantled the best of the parts were chosen. I turned out that apart from the corrosion damage to the piston that the spare rack was better in all other respects except the large piston. So now there is one very good rack assembled and a container of left over reject parts.
    Fitting the new seals was time consuming and exacting especially getting the Teflon inner seal to sit in its bore. But all worked out!
    Note the end of the old piston that had to be ground away to retrieve the heavy circlip that retains the rack thrust pad inside the piston!
    Thanks for the picices, I've never seen a CX rack apart before! There actually far less complex than I imagined.

    seeya,
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  12. #112
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Default Gerry's CX Restoration--restored pics

    I also to overhaul my steering rack. Did all your new parts come from CX basis?
    Last edited by Jinandfonic; 16th April 2014 at 09:22 PM.
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

  13. #113
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    I also to overhaul my steering rack. Did all your new parts come from CX basis?
    Yes !!!!!!!! They are really great!
    To remove some of the internal O rings I took a piece of 1.2mm welding wire ( About 15 cm long) and flattened the end to a spatula shape and then filled it smooth . This tool was excellent for getting in at the sides of the O ring so that it could be lifted out of the groove at one point. Then it is an easy matter to use a narrow screw driver to flick the rest out of its groove!
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    Cheers Gerry

  14. #114
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Thanks for the picices, I've never seen a CX rack apart before! There actually far less complex than I imagined.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yes they are straight forward in design----- beautifully engineered! But slow and steady and care full is the order of the day when reassembling the seals and pistons. The output rubber bushed joints were in very sound condition, just a little swelling at the edges to trim away! No perceptible movement in them at all! No doubt the swelling was caused by LHM leaking into the rack boots! When I dismantled the boots the stuff poured out everywhere!
    Last edited by gerrypro; 17th April 2014 at 02:34 PM.
    Cheers Gerry

  15. #115
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The motor, gearbox, cooling system etc. and rack are now back in the car. Just waiting on some electrical spade connectors to arrive from Hong Kong. Gee, it is easy to break the ends of the wire to the fan switch on the back of the radiator.
    Looking for ward to the start up!
    Does anyone have a nifty way to oil prime the galleries before the initial run?
    Cheers Gerry

  16. #116
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Crank the engine with the starter, minus plugs, until the oil light goes out.

    If you are really keen you can use a hand oil pump (the one for topping up diffs, gear boxes) and push oil into the outlet side of an oil filter port. Don't know the logistics of this on a Cx. On XN Pugs you can wedge a tapered plastic fitting into the port.
    Mutual Respect is Contagious


  17. #117
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Thanks Rob, That approach is a bit hard on the CX, but the oil filter slopes upwards. Maybe I can prime the filter before re fitting it. That would at least have some oil in the galleries! Of course the oil filter is in a bastard of a place at the back of the engine and can only be reached from underneath. It helps to have universal joints for elbows!
    Cheers Gerry

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Thanks Rob, That approach is a bit hard on the CX, but the oil filter slopes upwards. Maybe I can prime the filter before re fitting it. That would at least have some oil in the galleries! Of course the oil filter is in a bastard of a place at the back of the engine and can only be reached from underneath. It helps to have universal joints for elbows!
    Pressure oil can and a piece plastic tube?
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Crank the engine with the starter, minus plugs, until the oil light goes out.

    If you are really keen you can use a hand oil pump (the one for topping up diffs, gear boxes) and push oil into the outlet side of an oil filter port. Don't know the logistics of this on a Cx. On XN Pugs you can wedge a tapered plastic fitting into the port.
    That is exactly what I've done on the odd occasions I've started a reassembled engine. Plugs out, battery charged and spin it on the starter. It doesn't take all that long to get oil pressure on a Renault 4CV...
    JohnW

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  20. #120
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I Finally fired it up yesterday----ran like a charm.
    Isn't always the way that you fix one thing and another problem rears its ugly head!
    The next job is to remove the LH drive shaft AGAIN!!!!! and to stop a TQF leak from the out put seal plate. It has had new shaft seals so I bet that the culprit is the O ring seal around the seal carrier plate! Damn and Blast!!!!
    GreenBlood likes this.
    Cheers Gerry

  21. #121
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    It seems that there is always just one thing more. The TQF leak at the carrier plate is now fixed. But now there is an LHM leak on the RHS. It seems to be coming from the four way rubber union on the back of the chassis frame. It is only carrying low pressure return. But it had to be that one and not the other side that is easy to get at! The header tank, ventilator flap cover, charcoal canister and fresh air intake tower all have to come out just to be able to even see the thing.
    If any one has a good spare it would be appreciated. the new ones are quite expensive and will take weeks to arrive!

    All Fixed!!!!!!

    Now Just a wheel alignment to go!!!!
    Last edited by gerrypro; 28th May 2014 at 07:26 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

  22. #122
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Yesterday the car went on its first run of any decent duration. Camperdown to Ballarat. At first the steering appeared a little twitchy but after about the half way point it settled down to steer the way that I remembered 14 years ago. Magnificent.
    On the whole the car performed as a new CX should and was an absolute delight to drive. Shane had a short drive when we went over to peer into the internals of his Dads traction gearbox and seemed to have a new appreciation of the C-Matic experience and the charms of this style of car compared with the fully manual 4 and 5 speed boxes.
    My thoughts are that it is a less complex CX version of the D series BVH boxes. Easier to set up and easier to maintain but gives a similar clutchless experience. An extra gear would have been nice. I wonder if a C-Matic version of the 5 speed was ever considered?
    That would give 2-5 and reverse just as the C-Matic that was built is 2-4 and reverse!
    All that aside I am extremely pleased with the result and I have defeated that bloody arsonist that sought to end it all-------Bloody Bastard!!
    Cheers Gerry

  23. #123
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Excellent news Gerry. Victory comes to those who persevere.
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  24. #124
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    We need some 'finished' pics, Gerry. After having done a couple of fire jobs myself, I really appreciate the level of work that goes into that type of a resto.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Yesterday the car went on its first run of any decent duration. Camperdown to Ballarat. At first the steering appeared a little twitchy but after about the half way point it settled down to steer the way that I remembered 14 years ago. Magnificent.
    On the whole the car performed as a new CX should and was an absolute delight to drive. Shane had a short drive when we went over to peer into the internals of his Dads traction gearbox and seemed to have a new appreciation of the C-Matic experience and the charms of this style of car compared with the fully manual 4 and 5 speed boxes.
    My thoughts are that it is a less complex CX version of the D series BVH boxes. Easier to set up and easier to maintain but gives a similar clutchless experience. An extra gear would have been nice. I wonder if a C-Matic version of the 5 speed was ever considered?
    That would give 2-5 and reverse just as the C-Matic that was built is 2-4 and reverse!
    All that aside I am extremely pleased with the result and I have defeated that bloody arsonist that sought to end it all-------Bloody Bastard!!
    Wonderful news! What a saga this rebuild has been - my congratulations. I'd suggest the steering twitchiness might actually have been the car taking a while to train the driver.... You'd know the CX takes a bit of getting used to until you are trained and gradually realise that all the other cars are wrong.

    I agree re the C-matic. Perhaps a bit low geared, but completely charming, again once you've been trained!

    Now, I'd suggest first the book and then the film.

    Enjoy the car!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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