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Thread: DS Pallas Restoration

  1. #76
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Quote by michaelr " I had planned to fix my increasingly slow starter motor when I was also ready to do a head job but it would not wait!"



    I wonder if a head job would fix my slow starter?

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    Sorry, it had to be said ;-)

    Michael, use the correct fasteners and studs, all will be well.
    Replace the starter mounting bolts. The one which was remaining would surely be well stressed.

    Yep, a head job would fix my slow starter, I'm pretty sure.

  2. #77
    Fellow Frogger
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    Do you have the heat shield that protects the starter? It seems to have a fair bit of external corrosion.

  3. #78
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Do you have the heat shield that protects the starter? It seems to have a fair bit of external corrosion.
    Yes! The heat shield was on so I was surprised to see the rust on the stater body. It will wire brish off, and there was no corrosion on the alloy parts. I suspect the starter was "reconditioned" at some time with a very poor paint job.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  4. #79
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Quote by michaelr " I had planned to fix my increasingly slow starter motor when I was also ready to do a head job but it would not wait!"



    I wonder if a head job would fix my slow starter?

    Sorry, it had to be said ;-)

    Michael, use the correct fasteners and studs, all will be well.
    Replace the starter mounting bolts. The one which was remaining would surely be well stressed.

    Yep, a head job would fix my slow starter, I'm pretty sure.
    I knew as I typed that someone would have to reply!

    I have replacement bolts for the starter mounting and will go looking for new nuts for manifolds. The 13mm hex nuts on half the manifold studs were a real PITA. Not enough clearance for anything except flimsy 1/4" drive sockets. Nerve wracking.

    I have already changed the engine mounts so I guess the only other thing to do down there is a replacement battery cable.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  5. #80
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Well, that starter motor was fairly simple once I got it out. Needed brushes and a commutator clean up. I found a set of brushes at a local auto electrician so it just took 15 mins with a soldering iron. It is back in again now so time to get this head changed.


    With the rocker cover off it was a bit of a sticky mess. What I found inside was not very pretty either! The car was running OK so I was surprised by how bad it was.



    The main reason for pulling the head was a leak of coolant into one or more cylinders. I can not see any clear evidence of head gasket failure. Piston #2 had some soft crystalline deposits.
    Cyl 3 was heavily encrusted with about 1mm of what looked like ferrous oxide.





    Luckily the bores look good so just a clean up and tomorrow I will drop on the new head. MIA in Cromer seem to have done a thorough job. They pressure tested it and fitted new valve guides plus a set of new inlet valves that Roger Parker supplied. Hopefully ready for the French Car Day on Sunday !

    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  6. #81
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    Hi Michael,

    Don't want to lead you on a wild goose chase but measure the diameter of your pistons (or more correctly the bore). IIRC the car has a red engine tag which could (or should) mean it's a pre 1970 21 (or a 19) motor and not a 23 motor.

    Why is this important...? You want to be able to fit the correct head gasket. I would hate to see you go to this much trouble to inadvertently fit the incorrect one.

    Hope this helps,

    Mark...

  7. #82
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Michael,

    Don't want to lead you on a wild goose chase but measure the diameter of your pistons (or more correctly the bore). IIRC the car has a red engine tag which could (or should) mean it's a pre 1970 21 (or a 19) motor and not a 23 motor.

    Mark...
    Well spotted! Yes, it is an early DS21 block (DX) so 2175cc. I have the correct gasket kit but thanks for the warning.

    The car was off the road for ten years before I got it so I have no idea of the history.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  8. #83
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Done!

    All rebuilt and running well. Smooth, quiet and the starter motor rebuild was a success too. Two skinned knuckles and a gash in my forearm (I don't remember doing that) is not too high a price.

    Not quite a success story. The last job was to get the car on ramps and do an oil and filter change ( the filter was very sludgy) and tighten the one final engine pipe flange nut that was only accessible from below. The stud sheared off

    Looks like I will have to remove manifolds and engine pipe again soon. Well, not that soon, the exhaust leak is not that bad so she is a runner for Sunday's French Car Day.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS Pallas Restoration-12070034_1280x721.jpg   DS Pallas Restoration-12070037_1280x721.jpg  
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  9. #84
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Well done Michael, pleased to know the physical sacrifice was minor. These are the accepted badges of honour doing the job.

    Head looks beautifully clean, if the internals of the head are the same I hope you flushed the engine block or will do so at the first opportunity.

    My practice is to replace all the flange studs and nuts if there is even minor corrosion, wobbly bits, dud threads, etc. The cost of a set of studs and the correct nuts is minor to the inconvenience of visiting that area more than one has to.

    Again, well done.

    Happy motoring on Sunday.

  10. #85
    Tadpole
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    One of the most extensive photographed restorations of a citroen dspecial 1973 : JeePee Indexpagina Citroen Ds and work in progress on a citroen ds from 1958 : JeePee Indexpagina Citroen Ds
    It's dutch but the photographs are very helpfull with your own projects (It did for me anyway)

  11. #86
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Very lovely Robbert, a gret resource. I realised long ago I was wrong to label my thread "restoration", more of a "patch up" compared to efforts like that.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

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