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Thread: 1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"

  1. #51
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Default 1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"

    Right. Well today was a massive day, started at 0930 and only just finished now.. Thing is I feel a bit defeated, don't have a lot to show for my time.. But hey- what I've done is done properly at least.

    So I jumped on the bus this morning and picked up my radiator (no car.. Sucks). First impressions? Positive. Pretty neat unit for $300 landed.

    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353486806.310951.jpg
    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353486853.810004.jpg

    I should have taken a comparison shot- with a core thickness of 56mm, it's about 40% thicker than my standard radiator. Can't be a bad thing (even if it does have Chinese levels of efficiency)!

    So- with abigail's approval, it was time to see if it fits!

    Right- well for starters, the mounting tabs on the front are much further up than the original radiator- also, with the core being thicker, I had to move it forward a few centimeters to stop it touching the brace behind the radiator.

    I made up some extension pieces to move the radiator forward and hit up Clark rubber to find some thicker rubber mounts. I ended up using door stops- one wasn't quite enough so I used 1.5 (hacksaw worked a treat).

    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353487460.801806.jpg
    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353487517.718080.jpg

    This moved it all far enough forward and up to fit it to the car. I changed the lower radiator hose too- I used one from a 71-74 ford fairlane 6 cyl- fits a treat! At least now it's not going to leak in a month or two!

    In my last post I discovered the radiator fan was missing a blade. I decided the better option is to fit an electric fan- I really don't want to pay the same and wait a month for a replacement fan from Europe.

    I bought a 10" thermofan from Repco and reversed it all to pull rather than push and made some mounts from aluminum strap from bunnings.

    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353487739.313913.jpg
    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353487779.913407.jpg

    Looks good. Like anything, very time consuming but at least it isn't held on with cable ties (my usual style!) and looks professional. I even used stainless steel bolts!

    I need to drop it into a radiator place now to get a bung welded on the radiator so I can fit a fan switch. I'm not going to use one of those poxy in-hose switches- I promised myself I'd do everything properly and I'll stick to it for as long as I can!

    I'm thinking a 90 degree switch- 77 degree thermostat.. Should be about right? Wiring in the relay etc will come next.

    So- should I paint the radiator tanks black? It's a bit out there for me in the natural aluminum finish.. Thoughts?

    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353488142.605184.jpg
    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353488175.006522.jpg
    1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353488195.080724.jpg

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    I'm pretty happy with the way the fan turned out though- should be a good improvement- I mean let's face it, I'd never have bothered if the original fan was ok, but with that being broken anyway, I think this made sense.

    I'm actually wondering whether to refit the fan shroud over the thermofan just to make the whole setup look a little more original- what do you guys think? You wouldn't even be able to see the electric fan if I did that... If I painted the radiator black and refitted that, then it'd look original but hopefully, work as well or a little better than the original.

    Little disheartening to put so much work in and not really have anything to show.. Oh well. Once the switch is welded in I should be able to refit the radiator and put the rest of the front of Celia together.. Then we're going to be making progress!

    No work tomorrow- Kate bought me tickets to skyfall (the new bond movie) at IMAX for my birthday last week.. Comes out tomorrow- meant to be pretty good too!

    Cheers,

    Toby

  2. #52
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see how you go...

    Before discarding your engine driven fan have a good read through this thread, particular attention to the outcome post #39
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...751-DS-Cooling

    The whole cooling set-up on a D is made up of interdependent components and works well as designed. Member D Coupe has made significant costly changes and appears to have had some success.

    Edit: Link to D Coupe's modifications
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...cooling-system

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  3. #53
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    It will be interesting to see how you go...

    Before discarding your engine driven fan have a good read through this thread, particular attention to the outcome post #39
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...751-DS-Cooling

    The whole cooling set-up on a D is made up of interdependent components and works well as designed. Member D Coupe has made significant costly changes and appears to have had some success.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Dear me.

    Ill just have to try.. The engine driven fan is cactus in either case. Worst case scenario I'll have to buy a new engine driven fan.

    Shame I can't drive the car to test it- I'm a little concerned now. I better make sure the shroud in front fits properly if it's all so marginal

    Ill keep you posted.

  4. #54
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault12 View Post
    Dear me.
    Ill just have to try.. The engine driven fan is cactus in either case. Worst case scenario I'll have to buy a new engine driven fan.
    Shame I can't drive the car to test it- I'm a little concerned now. I better make sure the shroud in front fits properly if it's all so marginal

    Ill keep you posted.
    Hi Toby,
    The work you have done looks very neat and could actually be useful in helping with cooling with the car at idle in traffic. It looks like you still have room for the engine driven fan?

    I bought a used fan via ebay but had to make the centre hole bigger to accommodate the OEM electric fan (used on crossflow radiators).





    What I'm saying is the work you have done is not in vain, if you can find a good original engine driven fan and it fits into the space left with the electric fan in place? Refit the radiator cowling and the front shroud you should have things working and possibly a little better in traffic situations?

    I can't recall seeing the fans available new, David S has suggested this to be the case in your thread requesting a fan he may know of a source? Roger Parker in Adelaide may be worth a call?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    I'd thought I'd seen fans on offer, but can't see any listed with a couple of the usual suspects. So, maybe used or ask a few vendors directly then. Western Hemispheres in the US list a couple of types, new and used, but that doesn't mean they are immediately available. The original parts seems to last exceptionally well, so if it's not too badly damaged, you could probably trim off a bit on the opposite blade to balance it up. It's at least a temporary fix until a better one turns up.

  6. #56
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Default 1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"

    Well.. I've dropped the radiator in to alexandria radiators for them to fit a thermofan switch. Apparently for about $85 you can buy an adjustable switch which they're going to mount in the top tank for me.

    This way I can set the fan to switch on, hopefully, at a low enough temperature.

    If not, then I'll have to find another death fan. Mine is missing half a blade- can't be good for the water pump to be swinging something that far out of balance. I'll give Roger a call and see if he's got anything.. If he does then I'll grab it and fit that too like you suggested Chris. And yeah, I bought a slimline fan so the death fan would still fit without an issue. At least I've always got that as an out.

    We shall see.

    Some more panel work.. Inner bootlid support is finished now and ready to be refitted. I would have gone and got a new one made up but couldn't find anyone who wanted to do it before christmas.. This should come up pretty well though!

    1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353638692.007748.jpg1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353638701.227124.jpg

    And refitted!

    1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-imageuploadedbytapatalk1353638738.205484.jpg
    Last edited by renault12; 23rd November 2012 at 10:03 PM.

  7. #57
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Well- it was like Christmas had come early when I got home last night!

    Thanks to Greenblood, I now have a full set of stickers to complete the engine bay and dash.. And my temperature gauge will match the fuel gauge (although I'm hoping it'll be a little more accurate!)

    1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-decals.jpg

    I also found a metric speedo on eBay which arrived yesterday. It'll be much nicer having a proper metric speedo.. Are there any fitting guides on AF at all? I'm thinking it wont be too hard to fit but I've been wrong before!

    1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-speedo.jpg

    I'll post some pics when I get time to do some more on the car. I've been lucky- plenty of time lately but that'll tsart coming to an end as the Christmas season approaches. I'm hoping my next Citroworld parcel arrives before christmas but we'll see.

    Thanks again Greenblood... They're almost too good to put on the car!

    Cheers,

    Toby

  8. #58
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Toby,
    I don't think there are too many traps in swapping in your KPH speedo.
    If you haven't already removed your instrument cluster the routine is - go under the bonnet undo the speedo cable at the middle join (you'll find this at or about where the suspension sphere is).

    In the car undo the 4 holding screws, withdraw the cluster and unscrew the speedo cable from the back, release the 3 wiring multi-plugs (white/ green/ yellow). Your cluster should now be free.

    Separate the white plastic from the black cluster face, from memory 4 screws. The speedo is held by 2 screws, swap in your KPH speedo and reverse the process.

    With the stickers, just make sure they are applied to a clean grease free surface. The air-cleaner sticker is best applied using a dilute mixture of dish-washing detergent, just sponge it onto the air-cleaner spout and the sticky side of the sticker, this allows you to move it into place (it should be able to slip on the solution) once in position, a firm wipe with a dry cloth to remove as much water as possible and leave it to dry out over-night.

    In case you are unsure the black with silver frame sticker goes on the outside of your windscreen to cover where the mirror has been glued to the glass.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  9. #59
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post

    In case you are unsure the black with silver frame sticker goes on the outside of your windscreen to cover where the mirror has been glued to the glass.

    Cheers
    Chris
    Chris,

    I was actually wondering where this went! Celia is missing her mirror.. can you take a photo of yours at some point so I know exactly which one I should be looking for?

    I'll follow your instructions with the stickers, that's why I didn't rush and put them on last night- I want to make sure I do them justice and get it right.

    Thanks for the speedo guide, that sounds even easier than I thought! I'll have a look at it over the next few days. I'm in Melbourne almost all of next week so not sure whether I'll have a chance to do much before I go..

    Thanks again!

    Toby

  10. #60
    mnm
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    Hi Toby

    just a thought with the speedo, as I have done the same thing with my car. Is your car still registered? They like the mileage to be consecutive... my car came from interstate so I had to blue slip it... so it didn't matter that I zero'd my counter before installation. If your car is still registered maybe you need to adjust the counter to match the old one.. it's very easy, you can gently rotate the number barrels with a screw driver.

    Matthew

  11. #61
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renault12 View Post
    Chris,

    I was actually wondering where this went! Celia is missing her mirror.. can you take a photo of yours at some point so I know exactly which one I should be looking for?

    Toby
    As long as you have the correct dash for a '72 D Special, this should be what you are looking for.



    http://www.citroworld.com/tableaux/i...=77&itemId=878

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  12. #62
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    Default 1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"

    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    Hi Toby

    just a thought with the speedo, as I have done the same thing with my car. Is your car still registered? They like the mileage to be consecutive... my car came from interstate so I had to blue slip it... so it didn't matter that I zero'd my counter before installation. If your car is still registered maybe you need to adjust the counter to match the old one.. it's very easy, you can gently rotate the number barrels with a screw driver.

    Matthew
    Matthew,

    I wouldn't have thought of that! It is sill registered (has been continuously for the last 40 years!) so I better do that.

    You mean just adjust the odometer while it's all assembled and just "rotate" the kilometer reading? Or do I need to disassemble anything..?

    Thanks again!

    Toby

  13. #63
    UFO
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    When you put the binnacle back in, do not pretend you're an apprentice when tightening those four screws. Just nip them up. If you tighten them too much you will snap off the corner of the binnacle. And I don't speak from personal experience

  14. #64
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    Craig is so right...! The screws on my 71 are only barely in there. Only just enough to stop the screws unscrewing...

    Cheers,

    Mark....

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    I recall that Jenny's partner at the time was a panel beater or painter, and he had a lot to do with the respray. (Come on Mort or DS, help me out here!) He also polished the rocker cover.

    If you're going to pull the radiator out you may as well consider replacing the belts and lower radiator hoses at the same time - unless you know they are good.

    Cleaning with kero and a brush and rags would probably be best.
    Ive only just seen this thread.
    The car is/was a single throat solex DSpecial 71/72. I can remember it in White Meije with a black vinyl interior (small bolt on arm rests) that was ripped and split in lots of places - typical fate in Aussie conditions.
    I cant remember what Jenny named it, ErIC springs to mind...
    I believe the interior trim was replaced - it might have since been swapped for something else of course ...
    The car was very strong to drive with a quiet top gear - even with a sinlge throat. It had rust in the usual places but nothing deadly. Door panels were suffering several attempts to bog up rust from the past - nothing unusual given NSW RTA concern with even the smallest rust bubble causing inspectors to demand it be 'fixed'. The Car was very loved by Jenny and she had it painted in the light yellow with rust repairs and it came out very good. The rocker cover was mirror polished and the engine bay was very nicely steam cleaned.

    Keep the original plates. they belong to the car. Apart from anything it shows its ALWAYS been registered - despite the repaints, retrims, and renewal.
    CITROEN CAR CLUB of NSW - MEMBER. www.citroencarclub.org.au. . .www.facebook.com/CCCNSW
    08FD DSPECIAL "Dear Prudence wont you come out to play?"
    00FF7512 DS23SAFARI "Pull up to my bumper Baby, in your long black limousine."
    C2MY06 C2VTR "Go speed racer, Go"
    YDO005 MORRIS MINI DELUXE "The Mini Deluxe floats on fluid too"

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    Quote Originally Posted by renault12 View Post
    Well.. I've dropped the radiator in to alexandria radiators for them to fit a thermofan switch. Apparently for about $85 you can buy an adjustable switch which they're going to mount in the top tank for me.

    This way I can set the fan to switch on, hopefully, at a low enough temperature.

    If not, then I'll have to find another death fan. Mine is missing half a blade- can't be good for the water pump to be swinging something that far out of balance. I'll give Roger a call and see if he's got anything.. If he does then I'll grab it and fit that too like you suggested Chris. And yeah, I bought a slimline fan so the death fan would still fit without an issue. At least I've always got that as an out.

    We shall see.
    For what this is worth, my advise is to replace it as it was designed and work from there.
    There are planty of fans around to replace one with a missing blade. or buy a new one online from Europe...
    An engine driven fan spins WITH the speed of the engine thus keeping pace with it - always. An electric fan does not.

    Remember even on the hot DS23's there was an engine driven fan and the electric fan only ever kicks in when sitting in traffic. On the open road its never on. its just an aux option for heat build up.
    CITROEN CAR CLUB of NSW - MEMBER. www.citroencarclub.org.au. . .www.facebook.com/CCCNSW
    08FD DSPECIAL "Dear Prudence wont you come out to play?"
    00FF7512 DS23SAFARI "Pull up to my bumper Baby, in your long black limousine."
    C2MY06 C2VTR "Go speed racer, Go"
    YDO005 MORRIS MINI DELUXE "The Mini Deluxe floats on fluid too"

  17. #67
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Default 1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"

    Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.

    Anyone got a link to where I can buy a fan? I can't find them anywhere!

    Not much (well nothing) had been done on Celia for a week or so.. Busy time. Ill try to get something done this afternoon after work!

  18. #68
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    Why don't you try Denton European autos at Penrith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Why don't you try Denton European autos at Penrith?
    Probably a very good suggestion. Join the CCCNSW.
    European Autocare have been a long term (20yrs+) advertising sponsor the CCCNSW.

    Mention the car - he will likely remember it.
    CITROEN CAR CLUB of NSW - MEMBER. www.citroencarclub.org.au. . .www.facebook.com/CCCNSW
    08FD DSPECIAL "Dear Prudence wont you come out to play?"
    00FF7512 DS23SAFARI "Pull up to my bumper Baby, in your long black limousine."
    C2MY06 C2VTR "Go speed racer, Go"
    YDO005 MORRIS MINI DELUXE "The Mini Deluxe floats on fluid too"

  20. #70
    DS
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    The model spec you have is not a model that suffers from over heating. I'm puzzled why you would jump straight into doing modifications (that actually won't work btw) before having the car up and useable and knowing what it does on a hot day?
    Citroen Car Club of New South Wales member.

    My Citroen ID21F can be seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/frontdr...7605999522616/

  21. #71
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    Default 1972 Citroën D Special- "Celia"

    Quote Originally Posted by DS View Post
    The model spec you have is not a model that suffers from over heating. I'm puzzled why you would jump straight into doing modifications (that actually won't work btw) before having the car up and useable and knowing what it does on a hot day?
    They weren't intended as modifications- just the cheapest & simplest way of getting it back on the road.

    I can't find a new mechanical fan, hence the electric one.

    To repair my old radiator was considerably more expensive than this one. I will get it done some day.

    Thanks for the help guys. To be honest I haven't touched her in over a week- motivation is waning and I've got some pretty big life stuff going on.

    Ill get back on track soon.

  22. #72
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    Did you try Western Hemispheres? They did list the fans new and used. An ideal time to be buying ex-USA given the strong dollar.
    Roger Parker couldn't help?
    It'd be surprising if none of the European vendors can find one. Not even Citroen Andre (Andre Pol)?

  23. #73
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    I can make an original 8 blade fan available.
    In good condition,still flexible. One tiny split (repaired) about 10mm long in an arc at the base of a blade. Unlikely to give trouble. The extent or size of the crack is visible in the image showing the back side of the fan. it is at the base of the blade at approx. 2 o'clock.
    Close up shot of split in one of the images, bigger than lifesize.
    Was fitted to a DS21 engine.

    Please let me know by PM or email if it is suitable.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-citroen-8-blade-engine-fan-ds21-001_400x600.jpg   1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-citroen-8-blade-engine-fan-ds21-002_800x533.jpg   1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-citroen-8-blade-engine-fan-ds21-003_400x600.jpg  

  24. #74
    Fellow Frogger! renault12's Avatar
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    Richo,

    PM'd. Thanks so much- That'll be awesome to have!

    So, another order from Citroworld turned up the other day and I had a chance to pick it up today. It's only half of what I ordered (it was kindly split over multiple boxes/invoices to avoid import tarrifs) but it's motivational nonetheless.

    I fitted the new front indicator lens assemblys quickly before- wow! What an improvement! I'll have some chance of getting a pink slip to have her re-registered in March now. My spheres also arrived, must be the exhaust parts in the next package.

    I'm thinking of actually trailering it out to Citromet to have the spheres changed; it's not really something I feel like tackling in the garage (I really cant afford for her to be totally immobilised and have LHM all over the floor!). I was planning to have the panelwork done by now and be able to drive it out but I'd like to get the mechanical stuff done so when the panels are ready she'll be ready to drive a little.. Thoughts? Maybe I should just wait; I'm sure he could have it done in a day or two in either case.

    Work on the car has been very, very slow (ie. non-existant) over the last few weeks; blame a lack of motivation, time and finances for that. Significant life changes occuring now and for the next few weeks. Once it's all back to normal maybe I'll feel like doing something. I'll feel good once this radiator debacle is solved and I've got a mechanical fan to put back on too.

    Annoyed I wasted the money doing the thermofan thing properly. I'm so tempted to remove it completely now. I'm sure I don't need it anyway and it'll only impede the efficiency of the death fan anyway. I'll see how I feel.

    Oh yeah.. Has anyone in Sydney got a rear drivers door & a bootlid (condition really unimportant) I could buy/use so I can move her around until my panelwork is completed? Not having a car is making things very difficult...

    Thanks again and sorry for the lack of progress!

  25. #75
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    Some pics of the new indicator lenses fitted. Once the rust in the guards is fixed the front will look really, really nice
    1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-img_1977.jpg1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-img_1979.jpg1972 Citroën D Special- &quot;Celia&quot;-img_1980.jpg

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