Bx 16v head bolts
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    830

    Icon5 Bx 16v head bolts

    The bx dramas continue very expensive head job welding value reseating pressure testing etc .Then go to put head on following instructions and bolts are pulling out of block . Is this the end for this motor or is there a solution so far 3 bolts have pulled thru in final torquing process
    CAN WE RETAP AND USE 13MM BOLTS
    Or do I ditch the block .
    This is really giving me the shits as I could have just dumped a low km motor in and saved all this hassle and money
    I feel like doing a Shane and torching the bloody car

    Advertisement
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Electrolysis has damaged the threads badly? I take it they're pulling out on the angular torquing. Some creative Helicoiling or Keenserts may be better than upsizing the bolts.

    Just to check your reference: 60Nm torque, all bolts. Then slack off in turn, tighten to only 20Nm, then 300į? Wurth CU800 or similar on threads?

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,459

    Default

    You need to helicoil the block. To do it properly and easily, pull the motor out if not already. You'll need M11x1.5 extra long helicoils. I can't recall whether they're 2 or 2.5. Buy ten and do the lot.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    830

    Default thanks gentlemen

    I was hoping that the motor didn't have to come out as I would put the other motor in then .This is costing more than the car is worth but whats new
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,459

    Default

    If the block isn't corroded around the liner seats I wouldn't throw it away. Good blocks are hard to find. If repaired properly, fitted with new head bolts (lubed) and tensioned correctly, it will last another 400 000Km.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL View Post
    The bx dramas continue very expensive head job welding value reseating pressure testing etc .Then go to put head on following instructions and bolts are pulling out of block . Is this the end for this motor or is there a solution so far 3 bolts have pulled thru in final torquing process
    CAN WE RETAP AND USE 13MM BOLTS
    Or do I ditch the block .
    This is really giving me the shits as I could have just dumped a low km motor in and saved all this hassle and money
    I feel like doing a Shane and torching the bloody car
    New bolts?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Brisbane
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    Archie,

    Are you going to use the Peter T special thin head gasket so you get the proper compression and therefore much better low end torque etc?

    Cheers,

    Ken W

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    830

    Default

    Ken the head has been dressed down a bit after welding so i think compression will be up a bit .
    I just want to get the head on on the car going at the moment we are using 12mm kleenserts and unibrako bolts have no idea of torque bettings maybe 50 pounds or less we will see
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Armidale
    Posts
    2,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL View Post
    The bx dramas continue very expensive head job welding value reseating pressure testing etc .Then go to put head on following instructions and bolts are pulling out of block . Is this the end for this motor or is there a solution so far 3 bolts have pulled thru in final torquing process
    ...

    Sorry - must have missed something here - did you explain why you kept going after the first one stripped?

    Glad you are winning now...

    Cheers

    Alec

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,090

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL View Post
    Ken the head has been dressed down a bit after welding so i think compression will be up a bit .
    I just want to get the head on on the car going at the moment we are using 12mm kleenserts and unibrako bolts have no idea of torque bettings maybe 50 pounds or less we will see
    I think you would be pretty safe. I pull m12 404/504/505 head bolts down to 60lb/ft and have never had a problem. They are not TTY of course. I guess neither are cap screws.

    The attached suggests you can use more, but you want the inserts to stay in head.

    http://www.cncexpo.com/MetricBoltTorque.aspx

  11. #11
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I think you would be pretty safe. I pull m12 404/504/505 head bolts down to 60lb/ft and have never had a problem. They are not TTY of course. I guess neither are cap screws.

    The attached suggests you can use more, but you want the inserts to stay in head.

    http://www.cncexpo.com/MetricBoltTorque.aspx
    I must be missing something.

    Are you using the correct and new stretch bolts and torquing/untorquing/rotating to angular spec?

    There have been other posts relating to stripping these female threads re-using old bolts or overtorquing with non-stretch bolts.

    Just curious, as I might be there myself one day...
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,090

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I must be missing something.

    Are you using the correct and new stretch bolts and torquing/untorquing/rotating to angular spec?

    There have been other posts relating to stripping these female threads re-using old bolts or overtorquing with non-stretch bolts.

    Just curious, as I might be there myself one day...
    I was replying to post #4. From that post I believe the TTY bolts have been dispensed with and cap screws used and simply torqued. Inserts have been fitted to the block.

    I was passing on my experience with Peugeot XN engines and stated torque settings I use.

    Every XN engine I've ever built, I just clean the block threads with a tap. Lubricate the thread with never seize, fit the head bolt and washer with plenty of oil between the washer and bolt head and torque in three steps.

    There was no intention to make recommendations.

  13. #13
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I was replying to post #4. From that post I believe the TTY bolts have been dispensed with and cap screws used and simply torqued. Inserts have been fitted to the block.

    I was passing on my experience with Peugeot XN engines and stated torque settings I use.

    Every XN engine I've ever built, I just clean the block threads with a tap. Lubricate the thread with never seize, fit the head bolt and washer with plenty of oil between the washer and bolt head and torque in three steps.

    There was no intention to make recommendations.
    Hi - I didn't take it that way at all (as a recommendation, that is) but thanks as I think now I understand what you were getting at.

    Non-stretchy but new bolts, torqued to the spec you've found works perfectly well?

    Do you re-torque later out of interest?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,090

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Hi - I didn't take it that way at all (as a recommendation, that is) but thanks as I think now I understand what you were getting at.

    Non-stretchy but new bolts, torqued to the spec you've found works perfectly well?

    Do you re-torque later out of interest?
    With a copper composition gasket or if using hylomar I re-tension the head after 500km or so.

    With monotorque type gaskets I don't bother.

    I should say XN engines (except the very late FI) are non tty bolts anyway. All blocks are cast iron, so there is never a thread problem.

  15. #15
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHRIVAL View Post
    The bx dramas continue very expensive head job welding value reseating pressure testing etc .Then go to put head on following instructions and bolts are pulling out of block . Is this the end for this motor or is there a solution so far 3 bolts have pulled thru in final torquing process
    CAN WE RETAP AND USE 13MM BOLTS
    Or do I ditch the block .
    This is really giving me the shits as I could have just dumped a low km motor in and saved all this hassle and money
    I feel like doing a Shane and torching the bloody car
    What were the original bolts you used when they kept taking out threads?

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    830

    Default

    We were using the original stretchy bolts new of course and the thread that was tearing out was a good 15mm and this was on the slack of and 150 degree final pull up . The inserts are the thick kleen serts 12mm there fore can not use original bolts and they are now not recessed as per the original but the meat they are in looks substantial enough and their outer thread is nice and coarse for a good grip .
    I did note after we started this proceedure that the cadillac northstar motors have the same problem and that they make a kit for these 11mm 1.5 pitch but too late she cryed. I just want the car going again and not added to the citroen to do pile of dead ones sitting in the workshop
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,459

    Default

    How much were the Keenserts and new M12 cap screws?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    830

    Default cost

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    How much were the Keenserts and new M12 cap screws?
    Have not got the account yet but was quoted 750 to do the 10 with Helli coils ~250 i would guess biggest problem drilling out the rear holes and making up a new locator ferrule
    some skinned knuckles so far
    what torque do you think would suffice Peter?
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •