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  1. #1
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    Default New Citroen C5 Owner

    Hi,
    Just joined the forum. I've just purchased a 2007 C5 HDI wagon. I am replacing an aged Falcon wagon as our family car. Having had a 1993 Citroen Diesel wagon when I lived in the UK about 10 years ago I've wanted to get a European diesel here.
    I'm in Mackay at the moment and we've bought the car sight unseen from Brisbane. Had it checked by DS Motors who gave it a thumbs up. It is 1 owner with 86k. There is a small leak in the suspension hydraulics which is apparently quite common and wont need attention for a while.
    Car should arrive in the next few days so we are quite excited. I'm sure I'll be back with questions in the future but any comments from anyone who has had one of these would be welcome.

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    Justin

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Justin,

    Welcome to
    Regards,

    Simon

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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi Justin,

    Well done. So what sort of engine and transmission do you have?

    Who are you going to get to maintain it for you in Mackay?

    Do you hope to do any maintenance yourself?

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    Thank God I'm a Fwenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Welcome Justin.
    I also own a 2007 2.0 Diesel.
    Magic motoring. Very important to use the right engine oil at all times, if not sure what is in yours, I would do an oil change first up.
    Does yours have a particulate filter? They can be troublesome if wrong oil is used.

    Other than that, a very under rated car. And Citroen has been making diesels for a lot longer than the rest!
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the welcom and supportive comments.
    It's a 2.0 HDI auto with the hydropneumatic suspension. It has been serviced by DS motors up until now so I presume should have the correct oil but I am interested to know what is considered the best oil for these.

    I think I read somewhere in my research that it does have the particulate filter.
    I generally do all my own servicing as well as work like brake relines but am getting more cautious as cars become more complicated. The most modern car until now is the '96 Falcon. I'll probably order a Haynes manual and study it before deciding what I can tackle and what I cant.

    We are only going to be in Mackay for a couple more months I think but not sure after that. We are a bit of a gypsy family at the moment hence the requirement for a gypsy wagon!! I will endeavour to get any servicing done by someone who knows what they are doing.

    If it is as good as my research indicates it should be a bargain. The insurance company even valued it at $2000 more than we paid for it.

    I'll keep you posted when it arrives.

    Justin

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    I was unaware that hydraulic leaks however small are common on the C5. It has a pressurised system and leaks are not a good idea!
    The only oils to use are those marked as meeting the PSA OEM standard whose details are now on another thread on oils. The same applies to the hydraulic fluid and the coolant.

    Replacement of the brake pads front and rear are relatively easy but they have chosen the materials so that the disk wear is comparable to the pad. The result is that disks have a life of two pad sets, more or less. One stupid problem is that the calipers are secured to the arms by two long bolts and the factory
    uses a Loctite style sealant to lock the threads. You are supposed to do the same if you remove and refit them to release the disks. However, some over zealous or just plain stupid mechanics put the sealant on the full length of the bolt so that you cannot undo it at all.
    I cannot recommend too highly that you read the thread at the top of this forum on working under hydropneumatic suspension cars.
    It is not really a car suited to home maintenance and that is actively discouraged in France - best find a reliable dealer who has access to the computer gear and factory updates.
    If you feel that you are being ripped off on parts costs, check them out on www.oscaro.com and use the French trade prices to argue with.
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    Hi Gerry,

    Thanks for that information. I will read all relevant threads. Hopefully there wont be too much I do to it for a while. I wont touch anything which is managed by any computer system. Hopefully this car will still have original brake pads but thanks for the heads up about that issue.
    I questioned the mechanic at DS motors at length after his inspection which he independently did. He said most get a small weep (not enough to drip) in the hydraulic line and to fix it the crossmember comes out and the series of lines is replaced as a whole unit. He said that it's not necessary to fix unless it actually starts dripping and he has several cars that he services regularly that had the weep noticed over 2 years ago and they are still going without being fixed. Apparently costs about $1200 to fix.

    Regards
    Justin

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    The power steering harness and oil return near the right front strut can weep or leak. Being sweaty is OK, but leaking LDS can cause affected rubber parts to deteriorate. DS Motors appear to have advised you frankly on the issue and the likely cost. You'd probably want to consider replacing both of these pipe sets together ... if and when you are in there already.

    There is also a pressure sensor on the power steering harness that can leak. The colour of ring tells you the pressure rating. It may be different for HDi, but on the earlier V6 C5, it has a white ring and it's right in front of the engine at the top. It's not (well wasn't) listed separately, but it's also used on Xsara II where a part number is given. That can save you buying a whole pipe set. Berlingo models have one too, but it's a different pressure rating with a different ring.

    If you are well away from a source of LDS and you are losing it slowly, keep a bottle (well capped) in the car and make sure you know how to top up the fluid. No, not like earlier LHM cars! A rough way is to set it to low and see if it's about at the seam in the reservoir. The 'proper' way is to depressurise the system, but you won't be able to do that easily. A brake / stop lamp switch might be a smart 'remote location' spare to have too.

    It's a good model C5 to own, so you are starting well.

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    Hi David,

    Thanks for that info. It's great to get all these pieces of information staight up to file away and keep in mind or any future maintenance. Exuse my ignorance. LDS is obviously the hydraulic fluid for the suspension but what does that stand for, what brand, where do I get it?
    You mention the brake light switch. Do you mean a switch on the brake pedal like most cars? Is it prone to failure? If this is I good idea I will certainly source one as a spare.

    Regards
    Justin

  10. #10
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    I believe it's ... Liquide Direction Suspension
    The brakes are regular DOT4, so LDS is used only for suspension and steering and they share a common reservoir. The factory sells it in 1 litre bottles, but Penrite sell something called SSF, which is supposed to be the same stuff.

    Brake switches are a bit weak, yes, but I'm sure DS Motors can fix you up with one if you need it. It does more than just turn the brake lights on, so it needs to be working properly.

    Also check with a Citroen dealer that your car has had all the recalls performed. The one to change the check valve on the brake vacuum pump is the most important one.
    Last edited by David S; 30th July 2012 at 08:19 PM.

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    Thank God I'm a Fwenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 456eec View Post
    Hi David,


    You mention the brake light switch. Do you mean a switch on the brake pedal like most cars? Is it prone to failure? If this is I good idea I will certainly source one as a spare.

    Regards
    Justin

    I see from the websites in France that a faulty brake switch can send your car into limp mode as the ecu gets the signal that the brakes are "on" and then decides somethings wrong if the brakes are on, therefore goes into "slow" mode and refuses to accelerate.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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    Thank God I'm a Fwenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    I believe it's ... Liquide Direction Suspension
    Tres bien Monsieur David!

    C'est exactement: Liquide de Direction et de Suspension.


    Bonsoir.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Justin,

    LDS is available from On Shore Oils at Murrarrie in Brisbane and also through the CCCQ. Please check club links and spare part links in the sticky area.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    Default I've got it.

    Hi All!

    Thanks to all those who have responded. All that information and expertise is great and gives me some security in that if I have problems I have somewhere to turn.

    We picked up the car on Monday from the trucking agent here. It's gorgeous and everything we expected. My wife is thrilled with it's comfort and features.
    We then picked up the kids from school and took it for a decent drive. We head out onto the highway. It only had 1/4 tank in it so I filled it up with diesel from the BP roadhouse (normal not high flow pump). Back onto the highway then onto a slightly winding road. About 10min after filling up the dash beeped and we got a warning (Engine management faulty problem with ESP and A something). The ESP warning light on the dash and service lights illuminated and engine went into slow mode (about 80kph flat out). We head back to Mackay and when near home I stopped and turned it off for a few minutes then on again. Now engine back to normal, ESP light out, service light still on and warning still there.
    Went home and left the car for a while. A while later I went out to Woolies, warnings still there but car running normally. When I started car again at Woolies, everything back to normal and car has been fine since.

    I rang the dealer who described this happening due to substandard fuel quality. I was dubious but after searching the expertise on this forum it does indeed seem true. Any further comments would be welcome. I will be watching where I buy fuel and avoid discount places.

    The service books that came with the car were for the wrong car but the dealer has found the correct ones and is mailing them up so I have yet to peruse the service history. If there is any doubt I'll get a complete service including fuel filters done. I will check about the recall so thanks for that info David. I'll also get someone who's coming up at some stage to get me some LDS. There is a Citroen dealer on the Sunny coast where my wifes family all live.

    Regards
    Justin

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    Fellow Frogger! Ceenine's Avatar
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    Exact symptoms/ experience which I had in my C4. I changed fuel filter and have used BP ever since. I cleared the error message with my Lexia. No further problems
    2014 C5 2.2 HDI Limited Edition Sedan
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Justin,

    It is a bummer to have that happen on the first real drive. After they have gone into limp home mode, they do come right in stages. They are usually all OK by the morning after. However, it does sound a bit more serious that just a fuel filter. Ours usually just stutters a bit when that gets clogged - no real warning lights. Having the full Christmas tree come on is pretty intimidating. We were able to get ours to Brisbane Citroen to show them the display in its full glory. They weren't too keen to let us drive it home after seeing that. They found an error code in the computer that indicated a 12 volt power problem and since they replaced the engine fusebox we have had no further problems.

    So I would suggest getting the local Peugeot/Citroen people in Mackay to replace the fuel filter and if it happens again, I would be right back onto the dealer ASAP.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    Hi Ken

    There's no Citroen dealer in Mackay. There's one in Rocky and a Pug one in Townsville. We have a 3 month warranty so we'll see how it goes for a few weeks before we did anything. We haven't been out on the highway again. We also don't know how long the car was sitting before we bought it so could be stale fuel issue in the car or from the pump. That happened on Monday and my wife has been driving it around town since then with no problem.
    If it seems a fuel filter change is in order I'll take it to one of the diesel specialists here.

    Before I realised the log book was for the wrong car I rang Sunshine Coast Citroen to try to get a service history. I was told that due to privacy laws they could only give the service history to the owner of the car at the time it was brought in. The guy went on and on saying they were just like a doctors blah blah blah and in the end I had to cut him off as I wasnt really interested in listening. Seems it's just too bad if you dont have the details of the previous owner or they dont want to cooperate in allowing you access to the history. I hate all this PC [email protected]$#^%!t!


    Regards

    Justin
    Last edited by 456eec; 3rd August 2012 at 02:44 PM.

  18. #18
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    G'day Justin.

    Welcome to the joys of owning a Citroen in Mackay! Motoco is the Cit dealer in Townsville, and they recently acquired Peugeot after the previous dealer exited. I always found them very good, but they now have multiple dealerships, and the last two times I had problems they couldn't look at the car for 3 to 4 weeks. The first time, I had a broken fuel return line replaced locally. The second time I went to Rockhampton.

    The Rocky people were very obliging and good, but I have only been there the once.

    Be careful. I once had a clogging fuel filter initiate limp mode when I was three quarters around a truck on a one lane each way "highway", and it is not an experience I wish to repeat!

    Regards, Rossie.

  19. #19
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    Since there's an ESP/ABS warning, you might suspect that brake switch. Check the tyres are the same type and approximate degree of wear either side of each axle. Having a worn tyre on one side and a new one on the other can sometimes trick the car.

    Keep in mind that faults sometimes result as a consequence of another fault. Cruise control faults are usually due to something else going wrong and cruise then being deactivated as the car goes to a downgrade mode of some kind. The cruise control would not typically be the root cause of a problem.

    For a loss of power, there are a few things to keep in mind ...
    * Fuel filters do clog, so if uncertain of the age, just change it. It's just an insert on your model and the top unscrews with a suitable 6 point socket. 36mm I think. You just need to bleed it afterwards with the rubber bulb.
    * The cars with RHR in the VIN have a vacuum tube set running across the front of the engine attached to the turbo and some solenoids down the front. There is a Y-piece in that harness and it can crack, causing a vacuum loss and therefore loss of turbo boost. Make sure it's OK or cut the Y-piece out and replace it. You don't need to buy a new pipe set. Sometimes the vacuum hose going to the turbo simply falls off.
    * Look for oil leakage on the air hoses for the turbo, as they can sometimes split. You can end up with a very sooty exhaust with that sort of problem, so it's probably not an issue on your car.
    * Your car has a particle filter. Every time the tank is filled, it injects a shot of Eolys fluid into the fuel tank. If it's sat around a lot and had only partial fills at a dealer, then it may have had excess Eolys in the tank and clogged the filter as a result. It's a good reason to change the filter and try to fill the tank completely.
    * With the particle filter, it needs a decent run to burn off the soot roughly every several hundred km or so, depending on how it's driven. If the particle filter is clogged, you will lose performance. It can become clogged because it's done a lot of very short trips and has not been able to perform a regeneration (soot burning) or sometimes other debris can accumulate and not be burnt off. If it becomes blocked and it's not possible to regenerate it, it is sometimes possible to clean the particle filter (reverse flush), but it's not a DIY job.
    * The EGR valve can sometimes fail on the engine in your C5. If they fail open, the car won't start or will be very difficult to start. If you get stuck with a broken EGR valve, you can temporarily blank it off and the car should start. They are so expensive locally, yet relatively inexpensive from the UK, so I'd almost think of keeping one spare if I owned that model C5.

    Ken's dash Christmas tree and electrical fault issue applies to the model after your C5, so it should not affect you.

    Overall, it sounds like the fuel filter is worth changing as the first step.

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    Thanks David,

    Some great thoughts there. I've ordered the Haynes manual from the UK ($29 posted compared to $65 plus postage the cheapest I could find here). Comments on the forum suggest it's not that good but at least I can study the anatomy of the car. I'll then look at doing the fuel filter.
    I'm planning to take it for a good highway run today so that should clean out the filter if that is a problem. I would assume DS motors would have checked the Y-piece but I'll have a look at it. The car has been going fine around town all week.

    Regards
    Justin

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    Yesterday I went for a nice long drive to Nebo and Mt Britton. Headed out on the highway and did about 40K tried out cruise control and all well. Then the dreaded beep and the warning "Engine Management System Faulty". ESP and service lights on and engine in slow mode.
    Stopped and turned off and on again. Fixed it but service light on for a while but then happened again and each time came up with "ESP and ASL System Faulty". I kept going to Nebo, had lunch then to Mt Britton and back to Mackay. Each time I turned off it cleared it although service light stayed on. As the day progressed the warning became more frequent until it was happening as soon as the car was started so I drove to 80-100km back in slow mode most of the time (much to the disgust of traffic behind me). Also filled with fuel again but that made no difference.

    This morning the service light was still on and got the "engine management system faulty" one but after the 2nd or 3rd start the service light went out and it's back to normal. Does indeed seem related to highway speeds and I suspect is related to the ESP, possibly a faulty wheel senser as suggested.
    I guess I'll have to book it in somewhere who has the diagnostic equipment and take it for a highway drive early in the morning to ensure the fault is there when I take it.

    Thanks for that info Rossie. Hopefully I wont have to drive to Tville or Rocky to get this sorted!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 456eec View Post
    Yesterday I went for a nice long drive to Nebo and Mt Britton. Headed out on the highway and did about 40K tried out cruise control and all well. Then the dreaded beep and the warning "Engine Management System Faulty". ESP and service lights on and engine in slow mode.
    Stopped and turned off and on again. Fixed it but service light on for a while but then happened again and each time came up with "ESP and ASL System Faulty". I kept going to Nebo, had lunch then to Mt Britton and back to Mackay. Each time I turned off it cleared it although service light stayed on. As the day progressed the warning became more frequent until it was happening as soon as the car was started so I drove to 80-100km back in slow mode most of the time (much to the disgust of traffic behind me). Also filled with fuel again but that made no difference.

    This morning the service light was still on and got the "engine management system faulty" one but after the 2nd or 3rd start the service light went out and it's back to normal. Does indeed seem related to highway speeds and I suspect is related to the ESP, possibly a faulty wheel senser as suggested.
    I guess I'll have to book it in somewhere who has the diagnostic equipment and take it for a highway drive early in the morning to ensure the fault is there when I take it.

    Thanks for that info Rossie. Hopefully I wont have to drive to Tville or Rocky to get this sorted!

    My 2009 C5 2.0 HDI was doing the same (except for speed limiting) when on country runs, usually when going through a bend. It also stopped the cruise control from being able to operate. Replacement of the brake switch fixed it.

    Regards, David

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Check the MAF ?????

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    After my initial posts and some research I have found that the car is actually a 2.2l from the VIN after studying this site. It was advertised as a 2.0 but the dealer obviously didnt know. I checked the tyre pressures all at 32psi. I've just noticed the tyre guide says 36 so I'll put a bit more in just in case that's causing a problem.

    Last weekend drove to the gemfields about 800km return. Car was in limp mode 95% of the time. Wasn't too bad ad quite flat and not much traffic so we could cruise on 100 or so but 0-100 accelleration is about 45sec and the slightest hill slowed us down. Still got great fuel economy though. When we came into Emerald we stopped at an auto elec. while warnings are up. Bit of a Dad N Dave operation but they did have an analyser which showed EGR valve, MAF senser, turbo boost sensor and 2 other faults. They had to turn off to connect it and then the EGR warning was then not showing so I'm not sure if they were detecting the actual faults or not.

    My wife found a nice sapphire so that made it worth it. Left it with a cutter so we're keen to see what we get back. Now I'll have to spring for a ring to put it in!

    When I got back I rang the head tech at Motorco in Townsville who said we'd need to bring it up and leave it there. They may even need to send codes to France for analysis. As it's under warranty I just need to make sure it's sorted before the warranty runs out.

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    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 456eec View Post
    After my initial posts and some research I have found that the car is actually a 2.2l from the VIN after studying this site. It was advertised as a 2.0 but the dealer obviously didnt know. I checked the tyre pressures all at 32psi. I've just noticed the tyre guide says 36 so I'll put a bit more in just in case that's causing a problem.

    Last weekend drove to the gemfields about 800km return. Car was in limp mode 95% of the time. Wasn't too bad ad quite flat and not much traffic so we could cruise on 100 or so but 0-100 accelleration is about 45sec and the slightest hill slowed us down. Still got great fuel economy though. When we came into Emerald we stopped at an auto elec. while warnings are up. Bit of a Dad N Dave operation but they did have an analyser which showed EGR valve, MAF senser, turbo boost sensor and 2 other faults. They had to turn off to connect it and then the EGR warning was then not showing so I'm not sure if they were detecting the actual faults or not.

    My wife found a nice sapphire so that made it worth it. Left it with a cutter so we're keen to see what we get back. Now I'll have to spring for a ring to put it in!

    When I got back I rang the head tech at Motorco in Townsville who said we'd need to bring it up and leave it there. They may even need to send codes to France for analysis. As it's under warranty I just need to make sure it's sorted before the warranty runs out.

    It is so easy to check the MAF. It caused numerous faults on my old C5, similar to what you describe. When removed look down the barrel and you will see a transducer? then behind that there are 4 terminals that should have 2 ceramic wires bridging them. If the wires are complete (not broken) there is a MAF cleaning aerosol that you can buy. If you look up "MAF cleaning on u Tube there are many examples on how it is done. New OEM, MAF sensors are $600 to $700. Chinese approx $70 to $100. We were lucky and got a near new second hand one. The change in the car is remarkable. These components are probably common to Peugeot and others who use this motor. Good luck Allan. (I posted something on this yesterday. See MAF sensor)
    Last edited by tasie C5; 24th August 2012 at 10:33 AM.

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