Adding an Electric Fuel Pump to a DS
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Dave Rogers's Avatar
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    Default Adding an Electric Fuel Pump to a DS

    The carburetor bowl on my 23 / 5 speed tends to drain when the cars sits for several days between start ups, taking many cranks to get going, and in this cold weather nearly getting to the end of the battery's capacity. The mechanical pump works well so I don't necessarily want to remove it. I was thinking of installing an electric priming pump to ensure the carby has a full bowl before cranking the engine. I'm thinking of activating it with a toggle switch located somewhere near the ignition key, with the starting sequence being something like, ignition on, toggle switch on, bowl primed, toggle switch off, turn key to start car.

    I'm really looking for advice as to where in the fuel supply line I should locate the pump and is there any make/model of pump that I should purchase.

    Any suggestions would be welcomed.

    Cheers,
    Dave

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    Default fuel pump.

    The easiest place to locate it , I found to be under the front RHS inspection panel. There is actually a couple of fixed nuts there that I was able to bolt an electric pump straight onto. I literally cut a 4 inch section out of the fuel line and put the pump in position without otherwise repositioning the fuel line. As to which pump to get, I would go for the lowest pressure quietest pump you can find. They're cheap, so I would also try to determine the best quality and get that. The one i put in was a regulator type so I left it on all the time. The noise, whilst barely audible, was very annoying once you heard it. But if you're just using it to prime the carbie, that won't bother you I guess.

    This is a pretty good place to get started.

    http://www.racetep.com/webfuelspark.html
    Last edited by mberry; 25th July 2012 at 05:49 PM.

  3. #3
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Default

    And remember- you only want a pressurization of 3-4 PSI maximum- any greater and you run the risk of literally blowing fuel past the needle and seat in the float bowl, causing a leak.

    It almost sounds like the mechanical pump is weak, have you looked into that?

    Setting up a relay to manually control the pump as a primer would be too easy. One other feature of an electrical pump, since you plan on using it this way, is if it allows fuel to simply flow through. Another way of doing this is a parallel manifold- IOW, cut the line where Michael suggests, but place the pump on a 'Y' for both input and output. That way, there is no restriction of any sort when the electric pump is shut off.
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  4. #4
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    The easiest place to locate it , I found to be under the front RHS inspection panel. There is actually a couple of fixed nuts there that I was able to bolt an electric pump straight onto. I literally cut a 4 inch section out of the fuel line and put the pump in position without otherwise repositioning the fuel line. As to which pump to get, I would go for the lowest pressure quietest pump you can find. They're cheap, so I would also try to determine the best quality and get that. The one i put in was a regulator type so I left it on all the time. The noise, whilst barely audible, was very annoying once you heard it. But if you're just using it to prime the carbie, that won't bother you I guess.

    This is a pretty good place to get started.

    http://www.racetep.com/webfuelspark.html
    My car is fitted with the second option in Michael's link, located just in front of the LHM tank, the mechanical pump has been completely bypassed (just a hose connecting the inlet and outlet). Once the car is running I don't hear the pump at all.

    If the electric pump were to fail I can easily reconnect the mechanical pump on the side of the road if needs be.

    Starting the car after an extended period is simply a matter turning the ignition on, wait 2 seconds to prime the carb and fire her up.



    Cheers
    Chris
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  5. #5
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    My1923 Type 175 Peugeot had a vacuum tank that had to be filed before starting. The solution was a 604 electric pump at the tank connected to a spring loaded button under the dash. Turn on the ignition, press the button until the fuel stopped running into the vacuum tank, release the button and start. The 604 pump allowed the fuel through even though it was not working.
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    Last edited by Flash Car 76; 25th July 2012 at 07:00 PM. Reason: make more sense

  6. #6
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    Having had the same problem on my 23 5 Speed, I fitted a 3.5 psi inline electric fuel pump in the fuel line just before the mechanical pump.
    As I need to lift the bonnet to connect the earth (on the battery) with the green insulator knob, I flick the electric fuel pump switch on and watch the fuel pump up through the inline fuel filter. I then switch it off, close the bonnet and the engine starts instantly.
    Why go under the bonnet to get to the switch, "you may ask". It's a good excuse to disconnect the battery and yes, I sleep better at night.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Any system which uses a manually operated switch for a fuel pump is not failsafe. If the operator forgets to turn the switch off the pump runs for ever. Especially if the pump switch is not ignition switched

    Fit a LPG gas valve shut off relay (tachometric relay) to control the fuel pump. When the ignition is first turned on the relay operates for a few seconds, once the car starts the coil pulses maintain the relay.

    This makes the fuel pump fully automatic and if the engine stalls the pump stops.

    They are very small and easy to hide but improve safety. My

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Sounds like the one way valve in the fuel pump is weak. An easier fix is to just loop a bit of fuel line higher than the carby (be it before or after the pump), this way when the fuel drains back to the tank, the fuel between the carby and the higher part of the fuel line stays put.... So it'll start on the fuel in the line, then re-prime itself quickly as the motor is spinning at 2000rpm on full choke

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
    The carburetor bowl on my 23 / 5 speed tends to drain when the cars sits for several days between start ups, taking many cranks to get going, and in this cold weather nearly getting to the end of the battery's capacity. The mechanical pump works well so I don't necessarily want to remove it. I was thinking of installing an electric priming pump to ensure the carby has a full bowl before cranking the engine. I'm thinking of activating it with a toggle switch located somewhere near the ignition key, with the starting sequence being something like, ignition on, toggle switch on, bowl primed, toggle switch off, turn key to start car.

    I'm really looking for advice as to where in the fuel supply line I should locate the pump and is there any make/model of pump that I should purchase.

    Any suggestions would be welcomed.

    Cheers,
    Dave
    Dave,

    The easiest solution is just replace the pump with one of the aftermarket mechanical pumps. As noted by Shane the most likely cause is the non-return poppet valve in the pump body is leaking. If the pump is the original OEM unit I would replace it as a matter of course anyway. The one design feature that is not good is that if the diaphragm in the pump starts to leak - gas goes right into the engine sump. Not something you really want to happen. Aftermarket mechanical pumps are about the same if only a bit more money than electric ones. They are not hard to remove/replace and will take less actual time overall than installing a electric one.

    Steve

  10. #10
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    if you dont use your car frequently,
    an option is to fit an inline boat fuel primer , $14 from marine shop, a few squeezes and your carby bowl is full, the fuel flows thru freely pulled by the mechanical pump once engine is running

  11. #11
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    I had the same problem with my car a few years ago, I replaced the mechanical pump with a new one and now no problems

    a short term fix is to tip a little petrol in the carbie before starting,

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Dave Rogers's Avatar
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    Thanks everybody, lots of good ideas here. Initially I think that I'll go with Shane's idea of goose-neck in the fuel line by the carby to ascertain if it is a leaky one way valve in the pump, if so then a new mechanical pump will be fitted. It seems a far simpler than my idea of an electric pump, and one which I can tackle without any difficulty. If it's not the return valve then I'll fit an electric pump in Michael's suggested position, using Y junctions a a spring loaded push button switch. As I said, many good ideas, thanks again gentlemen.

    Cheers,
    Dave
    74/75 DS23 Pallas 5 Speed Carby

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    03 Peugeot 406 Hdi
    01 Renault Scenic

  13. #13
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    Hi Dave
    When thinking about a Goose Neck consider how a syphon works!! If you want to see what is going on install some transparent tubing on a temporary basis.
    Woody

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