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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Default fuel pump worries

    I had my original fuel pump replaced on the DS23ie a while ago because it was worn out and not able to maintain pressure. It was replaced with a new Bosch electronic unit, not sure of its details and haven't look at it yet. The problem is its unbearably noisy. The installer assured me that he had insulated it as much as possible, although now it has become even more noisy to the point of being noisier than the engine. Surely all this noise is not right and I'm going to end up stranded somewhere very soon.

    So has anyone replaced their fuel pump and can offer advise on what is best; recondition original vs new unit and what brand and details and method for insulation?

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  2. #2
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    I had my original fuel pump replaced on the DS23ie a while ago because it was worn out and not able to maintain pressure. It was replaced with a new Bosch electronic unit, not sure of its details and haven't look at it yet. The problem is its unbearably noisy. The installer assured me that he had insulated it as much as possible, although now it has become even more noisy to the point of being noisier than the engine. Surely all this noise is not right and I'm going to end up stranded somewhere very soon.

    So has anyone replaced their fuel pump and can offer advise on what is best; recondition original vs new unit and what brand and details and method for insulation?

    If you are going to suggest I turn up the radio - Don't! Thanks
    I'll definitely be able to help you with this one, but too late now to go to shed. Will let you know tomorrow the exact model. I have replaced mine with a Bosch normally intended for BX models and is doing the job well.
    Very quiet, even more than the original.
    Tomorrow am changing the pressure regulator as my car seems to run too rich and we think it is a dead regulator. Keep you posted.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  3. #3
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    As a matter of fact, I have found it whilst searching through my past threads. Here is the model I installed and what I wrote at the time:

    This is to confirm to anyone who ever wondered how to replace their failing fuel pump on an injection DS:

    Bosch fuel pump No 0580464070 fits perfectly and does the job well. Goes in with minimum fuss, and comes with a kit to suit your car. $125 delivered, better than the $400 some places in Europe are asking for the original PLUS shipping $80!!!

    I'm sure it's probably enthusiasm, but I can swear it also gives the car more power...sounds much happier anyway
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  4. #4
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    It should fit into the original pump support with insulation. It's a rubberised affair, so check yours is not gone rock hard or the new pump has been bolted directly to the inside of the sill. Could it be the piping transmitting the noise? It's never going to be completely silent though.

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    June is currently running one that fits an EFI Camira....is doing a sterling job, though is noisy. However, it is noisier when the fuel filter needs replacing as it has to work harder.

    If it has become noisier over the last 1000klm or so, try replacing the fuel filter and see if it helps, it certainly does with June!

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    Hey thanks for the replies.

    I've been looking up the part numbers and found this.
    http://www.agua.nu/ds-files/tony-jac...0Injection.pdf

    it states part number 0580960007. Would that be the original mechanical unit for a 21 engine? I wonder if it was different for the 23?


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    Hey does anyone know the flow or pressure figures specified?

    The Bosch rep thinks the last listed part number was 0 580 463 005 but can't give me the specs for this part which was discontinued in 2004. He can't suggest a replacement. So I'm thinking all I need is the spec for the flow and pressure and then try to find the quietest unit.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Hey does anyone know the flow or pressure figures specified?

    The Bosch rep thinks the last listed part number was 0 580 463 005 but can't give me the specs for this part which was discontinued in 2004. He can't suggest a replacement. So I'm thinking all I need is the spec for the flow and pressure and then try to find the quietest unit.
    These links should tell you everything.

    http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang.../fuelpumps.pdf

    http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang...l_Pump_WEB.pdf

    Here is further discussion and where a satisfactory replacement Bosch pump was found.
    ds23ie pump replacement: Eureka it works!
    Last edited by robmac; 2nd July 2012 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    These links should tell you everything.

    http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang.../fuelpumps.pdf

    http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang...l_Pump_WEB.pdf

    Here is further discussion and where a satisfactory replacement Bosch pump was found.
    ds23ie pump replacement: Eureka it works!
    Tells me everything except what I want to know; what is the original specification for flow rate and pressure for DS23ie?


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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Harrison C has already done the job. See third link.

    The pump he used is "Bosch fuel pump No 0580464070 fits perfectly and does the job well"

    Since the engine has a pressure regulator, the choice of pump can be quite broad.
    All pumps cope with delivery rates for 4 or 6 cylinder, so delivery would be no issues.

    Three variables remain. Hose sizes on inlet and outlet, about 4.5 bar for DJet injection. Bosch also specify pump current should be around 10 amps. So another factor decided.

    So now it's a matter of looking at the Bosch external pump listing and choosing a pump.

    You could read the what Citoen service manual says about specification as well to confirm.

  11. #11
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post

    You could read the what Citoen service manual says about specification as well to confirm.
    Page 53 of service manual 586-5



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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Maximum pressure: 57 psi, 4 kg/cm^2

    That is approx 400Kpa, approx 4 bar

    So it's a 4 bar or 4.5 bar pump for you.

  13. #13
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    If you decide to install the same as me, I can post instructions and photographs of the steps I've taken. I think at the time it cost me about $100 delivered.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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    Thanks for all the additional info.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    If you decide to install the same as me, I can post instructions and photographs of the steps I've taken. I think at the time it cost me about $100 delivered.
    I'd be interested to know how noisy it is and what insulation methods you used?


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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    In fact I don't have any insulation. It sits in the same spot as the original pump did. I don't know if your original pump had insulation, but mine didn't when I removed it. So I just installed the new one in its place.
    You will only hear it shortly when you turn on the ignition then once the engine runs you cannot hear it at all .
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  17. #17
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    Most cars with this style of pump mount them in a rubber cylinder clamped to something more solid.

    The pump could also be noisy if it's cavitating. Are there any restrictions or kinks in the fuel line? Could the filter be the problem?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Most cars with this style of pump mount them in a rubber cylinder clamped to something more solid.

    The pump could also be noisy if it's cavitating. Are there any restrictions or kinks in the fuel line? Could the filter be the problem?
    I will check the filter next. It was always very noisy from day one it's just got noisier.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    In fact I don't have any insulation. It sits in the same spot as the original pump did. I don't know if your original pump had insulation, but mine didn't when I removed it. So I just installed the new one in its place.
    You will only hear it shortly when you turn on the ignition then once the engine runs you cannot hear it at all .
    Great this is good news.


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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Great this is good news.
    Read the Bosch number on the pump you have and check it a 3-4.5 bar pump.

    I recall some re-plumbing is necessary , so check with Harrison how he did the mods.


    Check that ground and +ve is on the correct terminals of the pump. Check for suction air leaks, blocked filter. If you look at the spec sheet most pumps have different diameter terminals to avoid mix up. But double check polarity.

    If the pump is way out of spec or running in reverse or has leaks it will cavitate and thus be noisy. I believe roller pumps still pump in reverse, just not as well.

    I wouldn't race out and buy a new pump until you have explored all of the above. So called professionals aren't nearly as thorough as the owner of a classic car!

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Read the Bosch number on the pump you have and check it a 3-4.5 bar pump.

    I recall some re-plumbing is necessary , so check with Harrison how he did the mods.


    Check that ground and +ve is on the correct terminals of the pump. Check for suction air leaks, blocked filter. If you look at the spec sheet most pumps have different diameter terminals to avoid mix up. But double check polarity.

    If the pump is way out of spec or running in reverse or has leaks it will cavitate and thus be noisy. I believe roller pumps still pump in reverse, just not as well.

    I wouldn't race out and buy a new pump until you have explored all of the above. So called professionals aren't nearly as thorough as the owner of a classic car!
    Interesting idea, so in reverse the fuel supply and return lines would also have to be reversed?


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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Interesting idea, so in reverse the fuel supply and return lines would also have to be reversed?
    Being a roller pump it should pump in the "same" direction, but not as well.

    It's next to impossible to swap the inlet and outlets: they are different diameters.

    It's a guess- something to check.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Being a roller pump it should pump in the "same" direction, but not as well.

    It's next to impossible to swap the inlet and outlets: they are different diameters.

    It's a guess- something to check.
    ok I have checked the set up and its not a reverse power issue, the - & + are correct.

    The Bosch 0580464070 is 3 bar which is more than the required 28.5psi = 1.9 bar and 130l/hr is more than the required 60-80 L/hr.

    However my existing unit has exactly the same dimensions as the Bosch 0580464070 so I have a sneaking suspicion it is already the Bosch unit. So its maybe a blocked filter or a defective unit.

    Its a process of elimination I guess.


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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    ok I have checked the set up and its not a reverse power issue, the - & + are correct.

    The Bosch 0580464070 is 3 bar which is more than the required 28.5psi = 1.9 bar and 130l/hr is more than the required 60-80 L/hr.

    However my existing unit has exactly the same dimensions as the Bosch 0580464070 so I have a sneaking suspicion it is already the Bosch unit. So its maybe a blocked filter or a defective unit.

    Its a process of elimination I guess.
    Just ask Harrison to send you some images of what he did.

    IIRC the Citroen pump had a bypass valve inbuilt. The Bosch ones don't. So one hose needs to blocked off and two used.

    I'm wondering if something is amiss there?

    Yep, most fault finding elimination if it can't be measured or deduced.

  25. #25
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    This is what you want to achieve. Just block off the return line....that simple. I know I have more pictures on a USB stick somewhere but can't fiind them right now. Will have them up by the weekend.


    See the end of that thread for pictures
    ds23ie fuel pump
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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