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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Default Your opinion sought

    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty


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    Last edited by gerry freed; 27th June 2012 at 09:28 PM.
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  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Point 1 - hardly!
    Point 2 - Not passionate. Keen but not overwhelmed.
    Point 3 - Absolutely. PSA have left their old ethos behind.
    Point 4 - I don't usually, but would/will.
    Point 5 - Not on your life would I suggest people buy one IN AUSTRALIA.
    Point 6 - Is a blonde "better" than a brunette or a redhead?
    Point 7 - I like this historical point, and appreciate the subtle design references that carried through to the last Xantia.
    Point 8 - Not really.
    Last edited by addo; 27th June 2012 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Completeness.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    1 sometimes, but I'm also actually surprised at the number of friends and acquaintances who have bought their first Citroens WITHOUT talking to me about their purchase first
    2 yes, see my signature block
    3 yes
    4 I would if local club permit rules allowed more frequent use, but now it's over 30 yo it rarely leaves the garage
    5 given reported complaints of local importers' support, buy anything else but cit (or pug)
    6 no
    7 yes, but I don't expect the non-innovative parts to fail as they often seem to be reported to.
    Last edited by Bruce H; 27th June 2012 at 09:46 PM. Reason: Trying to finish the message before it timed out
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroÍn or do you suggest other marques
      [*You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers --NAH ... Everyone thinks I'm a crazy nutcase
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns --YEP and extend your enthusiasm to their current range. --BOUNCY CRASHY POOGOE ON SHITTY SPRINGS (talk about going back 55years in technology)
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love. YEP
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport YEP
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroÍn or do you suggest other marques Not in a million years would I suggest a Poogoe with big tacky chevrons stuck on it. Where would you get it serviced at a reasonable cost. And Ateca will certainly screw anyone over if there's problems (see C4 thread in the last few weeks).
      [*You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot. ..... Once upon a time..... Same thing now.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important ... Who He fell off the twig before the traction even hit the roads didn't he
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty ... There's inovation there.... Get this.... The C4 has a Stink dispenser built into the dash .... WOW


    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: I suggest anything pre-psa is brilliant though
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  5. #5
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.
    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
      It happens
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
      Sorry no, I have no interest in the current range
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
      That sums it up for me
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
      Can't wait to be driving my D as a daily again
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroÍn or do you suggest other marques
      No way would I suggest a new Citroen in Aus
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
      I no longer see a difference
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
      Absolutely
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
      Citroen always put out a beta version of a new model, most bugs fixed in second series - nothing new there


    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Dťesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Dťesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Dťesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Default sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers Sure
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.Sure
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.Sure
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport Sure
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marquesSure
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.Sure
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is importantSure
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabiltySure





    dino

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! jlmdsims's Avatar
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    Default Trying to help

    Hi Gerry,

    I will answer seriously and honestly, hope you can let us know what it is all about...


    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers

    Never


    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.

    Always check out reviews of new models and still take it personally when they get panned, even though I know the badge means nothing these days


    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.

    I see a small connection, but only because I have fooled myself to think there is still a connection


    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport

    oui


    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques

    don't suggest Citroens, don't suggest other marques


    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.

    even though I know there is no difference, yes.


    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important

    not really


    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty

    I don't want to be at the bleeding edge, but I would sacrifice some reliability/inefficiencies to encourage innovation.

  8. #8
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers. I am respected only by those who share my opinion: most people think my car choices are nuts
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns really only the DS and extend your enthusiasm to their current range no, maybe the C6 if it is still current
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love. correct
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport yes
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques I talk them up occasionally
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot. only the hydropneumatic ones
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important was important, much diluted now
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty yes

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    1. Sometimes - a lady at work bought a C4 but only because she married a guy who had just been converted (C5). I think it helped that she could talk to me about it. She was partly there though, she had a Saab before
    2. Partly - only if they show some innovation or continue existing innovations
    3. some models yes (C5 and C6)
    4. Yes - 30 years old last Saturday
    5. Citroen mainly because that is what I get asked about. The advice I gave to my daughter when she bought a new car was find one that betters 5l/100km on the combined cycle - she came back with a Golf Blue Motion.
    6. Only if it has proper suspension
    7. His influence extended remarkably long after his death. It still flickers under Peugeot control but weaker and weaker.
    8. I value innovation above all. That is why I love my CX and have a soft spot for hybrids (Prius). Say what you like about the Prius but the drive train is sheer brilliance. Like most brilliant things inherently simple just like hydropneumatic suspension.
    Last edited by Greg C; 27th June 2012 at 10:35 PM.
    Mine

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    Usually not - most buyers seem to make up their own mind and cannot be persuaded to consider a Citroen. I have had one success when a good friend of mine was downsizing from a Falcon and all the car choice tools were telling him to go C4. I was very careful with my advice and tried to be totally objective. He bought one, loves it and is having a great experience so far. We are lucky to have a good dealer service department in Brisbane and that makes it easier to recommend others try them here.

    You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    I have never owned a D series but have owned many GSs, BXs, CXs, Xantiae and now a C5X7 Tourer. I still have examples of all except for a GS. I would even like to get an SM one day soon. So YES

    You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    I see the progression between each model and yes over time this results in a big shift. I don't like the new rear suspension of the C5X7 as it moves on the road over potholes but perhaps I won't have to replace the trailing arm bearings at 10 years. The ride of the C5X7 is somewhere between the 1976 CX Wagon and a BX with good spheres and greased front struts. Most of the changes have improved ease of maintenance and reduced the amount of maintenance - I love dual membrane spheres - Can I get some on the rear of the Xantiae?

    You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    The historic rego scheme in QLD prevents me from using the 1976 CX wagon as much as I would like. The 1989 BX TZi is a regular drive as are my 1997 2l 16V Xantia Wagon (love the engine) and the 1998 Xantia Activa (love the turbo surge and the cornering)

    Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    I am pretty loyal in that regard and do suggest people should at least go for a test drive but most don't follow my advice which is a pity.

    You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    I hate the open mouth styling of the Peugeots. I also think Citroen have more interesting interiors. So YES

    The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    Certainly is for me but I suspect not many of the new car buyers would know anything about that.

    You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    I do and have bought a first year first series C5X7 to back that up even if it uses the engine and gearbox that was being used in the Series II C5 sold in 2007. There were some gremlins due to the newness of the design but that is all forgotten now and the car is just great. Fingers crossed it will continue to be great.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

    PS It helps to be an Electronics Engineer with a Lexia in the toolbox to give some confidence in self sufficiency with post 1998 Citroens (and Peugeots)
    Last edited by Ken W; 27th June 2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Add the PS

  11. #11
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    1. Definitely, but as an eccentric reference point I think
    2. Passionate about the classics, but this is not really extended to the current range although it does go as far as our Xantia
    3. That's true
    4. Yes, much of the time (and our "new" car is 16 years old)
    5. I suggest Citroens and others to be judged on merit
    6. Not automatically. I judge on merit not marque and they are both PSA to me at present.
    7. Only modestly these days.
    8. Not exactly. I value innovation but would wait 6-12 months for running reports before diving in.
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
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  12. #12
    JBN
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    Under the assumption that my answers are not used to have me consigned to a lunatic asylum, here goes:

    As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    After my neighbours saw me build a 2CV from a collection of rusty bits and pieces, my initials of JB became JC. Since they are not into Dinky toys and I suspect they are atheists, they do not ask for my opinion at all.

    You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    Yes I am passionate about 2CVs and hydraulic Citroens up to and including the Xantia. Not interested in the current range.

    You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    True. Even the chevrons have become rounded like boomerangs, forcing the cars to return regularly to the dealer to get the software updated.

    You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    Absolutely. In Asstralia they haven't upgraded the roads over the last 20 years, so why should I upgrade my car?

    Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    In Sydney, I suggest they save their money and buy a yearly train ticket.

    You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    Yes, for me. Citroens are more despised than Peugeots, so used ones are much cheaper.

    The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    Yes, to the extent that he gave his name to the car and no one in Australia can pronounce it. Personally, I wish his name had been Fraubanger, as I think that has more cachet.

    You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    Buying Citroens second hand means that the original owner has had the reliability problems and I buy the innovation - cheap.

    John

  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    Given from the perspective of a Yank:
    1) I have been asked and yes, I have given reference.
    2) I am very passionate about the classics, to the point that I make a fairly complicated part for them. I would like to be passionate about the current range, but I can't do that with something I can't see, feel, or drive.
    3) Absolutely. A DS6 is decidedly not a DS21. I don't want them to be the same, they can't be the same, but really guys. Stop trying to force a connection that doesn't exist. Taking an icon and slapping it on a mildly restyled C-whatever does not make your current car instantly desirable.
    4) I do that anyway. See, our problem is if you want something French, unless you buy a Smart you are kinda limited.
    5) Given the above, suggesting a new Citroen is kinda moot. Shame, because I think the current C5 and 6 would sell relatively well here. I can suggest a Toyota Yaris, which is a C2 in a kimono. Fortunately, as basic transport it is a very good choice.
    6) I've owned both, but in a much older sense. 504, 505, ID19, DS21, GS, A Series, CX. On that list, my personal opinion is the GS really is the superior one. From what I've gathered here, though, the current range really isn't much different from Peugeot. I mean, optional steel suspension on the C5? Really?
    7) The influence was important until Peugeot decided they were losing money. Well, let me rephrase that. The influence remains important. But the erosion of spirit brought us a BX which almost equals a 405, an XM which is based in the 605, and so on. Ford does a far better job hiding the fact that the current Fusion is based on the current Mazda 6- itself not bad at all. Yes, there is the C6, but for how long? With that, you see Peugeot's point, which is simply it is not a money maker, even at nosebleed levels of pricing.
    8) I do value engineering and design innovation. Both the Japanese and the S Koreans have proven beyond doubt there is absolutely no reason for "teething troubles" anymore. "Initial reliability" is just a canard sold by JD Power for bragging rights. Any manufacturer the size of PSA with initial quality problems isn't paying attention. For any problems that didn't show up in testing, that innovation had better be spectacular, and Citroen hasn't done that for a good, long while.

    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Under the assumption that my answers are not used to have me consigned to a lunatic asylum, here goes:

    As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    After my neighbours saw me build a 2CV from a collection of rusty bits and pieces, my initials of JB became JC. Since they are not into Dinky toys and I suspect they are atheists, they do not ask for my opinion at all.

    You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    Yes I am passionate about 2CVs and hydraulic Citroens up to and including the Xantia. Not interested in the current range.

    You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    True. Even the chevrons have become rounded like boomerangs, forcing the cars to return regularly to the dealer to get the software updated.

    You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    Absolutely. In Asstralia they haven't upgraded the roads over the last 20 years, so why should I upgrade my car?

    Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    In Sydney, I suggest they save their money and buy a yearly train ticket.

    You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    Yes, for me. Citroens are more despised than Peugeots, so used ones are much cheaper.

    The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    Yes, to the extent that he gave his name to the car and no one in Australia can pronounce it. Personally, I wish his name had been Fraubanger, as I think that has more cachet.

    You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    Buying Citroens second hand means that the original owner has had the reliability problems and I buy the innovation - cheap.

    John
    Very good John. That's included several things that more or less I wish I'd thought to say but you did it much better. Except I can't claim your first point!
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
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    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  15. #15
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    All fascinating responses Gerry - we look forward to seeing the purpose! Getting back into my Xantia after belting a Peugeot 107 around UK for a week was a great pleasure.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers.No everyone just criticises my choice of vehicle and does not understand the passion. To others they are just funny weird cars. I change their minds when they are taken for a ride in one. My son who used to bag out my Light 15 drove it and was amazed by it. He now thinks differently.
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.Yes, and no, in that order!
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love. [COLOR="red"]No. I think PSA believes that Citroen is all about Hydraulic suspension. It is so much more than that one detail . PSA just do not 'get it'.[/COLOR
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport. No I bought a Holden and drive my precious cars only occasionally.
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques. I bought a Holden --- what more can I say.
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot. If we are talking REAL Citroens then the answer is an emphatic YES.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important. Andre Lefebvre had a greater influence. AC just allowed him and his team creative latitude.
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliability. Real innovation as opposed to marketing gimmickry requires inspiration but the finished product should always give the buyer reliable service and should not be rushed into production only half baked. This has been the case in the initial releases of the TA and the D series cars. Many new purchasers had their enthusiasm curtailed by poor service departments staffed with mechanics that were out of their depth with this new technology. This was particularly the case here in Australia.
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Boyracer's Avatar
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    As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    Yes, this is true. However most of my friends and rellies also know that I have no interest in new cars so this probably diminishes the value of my opinion to them.

    You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    No. I like one model and one model only.

    You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    In my opinion there is no connection at all.

    You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    My daily transport is now three years old and sometimes shares it's workload with a sixteen year old car. Neither of them are Citroens.

    Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    I would only recommend a Citroen before another marque if I honestly thought a particular model better suited the needs of the potential buyer.

    You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    If we're talking about current offerings, I would have to say I think of them as being the same car.

    The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    I would probably say it was interesting, but perhaps not so important or even relevant to the brand eighty years after he passed away.

    You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    I value reliability over innovation however most car makers seem to think the other way these days, but perhaps this is dictated by the market?
    Cheers,
    Michael

    ____________________________

    Citroen Car Club of NSW - Member

    1974 Citroen DS23 non Pallas BW Auto/Carby with Air-conditioning [AC640 Delta Blue]
    1972 Citroen DS21 5SPD EFI Pallas [AC088 Blanc Meije]

    2012 Citroen C5 Exclusive 3.0L Auto Diesel [Noir Perla Nera]



  18. #18
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    my contribution to your dot points:
    1. not yet
    2. Am passionate, current range is ok. The C6 is fantastic - I want one.
    3. C6 almost resembles an up to date CX.
    4. Attempting to with cx, Xantia not yet 20.
    5. Look around I reckon.
    6. Not sure - Al4 box has put me off modern autos.
    7. Very much.
    8. Yes


  19. #19
    Tadpole
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    As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    I am not known.

    You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    No

    You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    Great connection, they are unreliable, that's what I love.

    You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    Only if someone steals my pushy.

    Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    Save your money they are all crap.

    You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    Yes but only because they are to follow Saab, which I now love.

    The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    Dido

    You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    Yes I enjoy getting value for money with my RACV total care.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! tractionfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    1: Hardly and I usually don't.
    2: I'm passionate about my car.
    3: absolutely
    4: Yes
    5: For an ordinary jo blo. buy a corolla.
    6: no
    7: very particularly his influence in the development of the traction.
    8: we all love innovation. wait and buy the second years model. hopefully the bugs will be sorted.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Mort Subite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    I get asked by quite a few people what I 'think' about other cars. Only if ive driven one would I make a comment other than the look of them.

    I have old Citroens (D's) and a newer one (C2) - I like them both.

    I've never thought about finding a connection between the old ones and the new one. I's probably try and justify a connection - its human nature.

    I have 4 motor cars. Two D's and a mini are more than 37 yrs old. One, a C2, is 6 yrs old. All are road reg'd for daily use. In city traffic where the commute is common I use the C2 more than the others (thats why I bought it), but they all get a turn.

    I relate my experiences with a D and with the modern C2. They are both fantastic at what they do. People can make their own choices.

    Citroen D is what I wanted to drive/own, a similar age Peugeot is not not.

    I dont really know his 'influence' if any on the model that I choose to own. I assumed he was just a typical industrialist that used technology to market a product(?)

    I guess I do.
    CITROEN CAR CLUB of NSW - MEMBER. www.citroencarclub.org.au. . .www.facebook.com/CCCNSW
    08FD DSPECIAL "Dear Prudence wont you come out to play?"
    00FF7512 DS23SAFARI "Pull up to my bumper Baby, in your long black limousine."
    C2MY06 C2VTR "Go speed racer, Go"
    YDO005 MORRIS MINI DELUXE "The Mini Deluxe floats on fluid too"

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Ronhic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.
    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers.
      • I'm not so sure about 'respected', but yes, people do often discuss car options with me.

    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
      • Yes, but no - I have little enthusiasm for the current range. If I had, we'd have bought one.

    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
      • Correct. I've wanted a D since I was 12 years old and it took me until my 40's to get one. Before finally 'arriving', I had a succession of R12's, 16TS, Cx, Xantia's and others and I see minimal of the flair in the new that I see in the old.

    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
      • Only when needed. June was required to do daily drive service for a few weeks before Laurin arrived. The fact that she can, and I'm happy to have her do so, is what matters.

    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
      • I suggest people should buy what suits their needs and practice what I preach - we considered options, supporting the European underdog in this country, and bought a Skoda Superb. By all accounts, a VW with reliability.

    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
      • Not in this country. Judging from the experiences of some others with the importer, I'd rather not risk a new Citroen and have significant warranty issues.

    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
      • No. I believe that Peugeot have allowed it to be ever more diluted to the degree that it is no more relevant than the active ingredient in a homeopathic remedy.

    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
      • Absolutely not. In this day and age there is no justifiable excuse for one precluding the other.


  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
      No
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
      Somewhat, but only the one(s) with hydraulic suspension
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
      C6 yes
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
      Yes
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
      Nobody asks me
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
      Fanatical YES
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
      Yes, for marketing
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
      Yes
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
    CX Register

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers

      In my small way yes but increasingly nowdays I find my own biases correlate inconveniently to theirs.

    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.

      How could any enthusiast not love the classic Citroens?

      Although a more tempered enthusiasm for the vehicles of their latest direction. Nor in particular do I aspire to 'hot hatch' worship. From a European perspective in these fraught times I guess PSA knows best where to chase the dollars (?) but eg from my periphery it's a shame to see Citroen abandon its previous appealing and highly distinctive C4/CX theme & style for this dumpy new look. Does anyone else muse on the 'what if'* of PSA expending all those C4/DS re-design dollars towards an updated hydro-equipped (<point of difference) facelift, instead of these new improved generic blobs?

    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.

      Obviously I see the brand connection; what other manufacturer (would or could) still field wonderful hydro cars like C6 & C5? The novel Picasso also carries some trad appeal imo.

    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport

      The wife's car yes and my consecutive previous (when sold) 28 y/o Benz, 39 y/o Leyland, 30 y/o Buick.

    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques

      Yes I naively suggest Citroen (to deaf ears, inevitably) and pragmatically Renault too since the impressively delivered Renault Commitment of quality.

    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.

      Hopefully still yes and comfort is becoming my #1 priority.

    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important

      Remind me who he was again? It's all so long ago.

      In fallacious marketing influence maybe, but tell me; what skerrick remains of his important personal influence within the current Berlingo DS3 C4, eg?

    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty

      Absolutely emphatically YES !!

      In the unbeatable logic via this unforgettable angry retort from anonymous Jaguar original-XJ6 owner:

      " What's the POINT in having a luxury car if you can't have a little trouble with it ?!?! "

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default Classification of a new type of madness.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Knowing the deep experience and wide range of views around CitroŽns of the contributors to this Forum, I would welcome your comments on any or all of the following assertions. There is a serious purpose behind this.

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty

    • As a known car enthusiast you are used and respected as a reference by car buyers
    I'm not known as a car enthusiast, I'm known as a troublemaker.
    • You are passionate about classic CitroŽns and extend your enthusiasm to their current range.
    Not enthusiastic about classic Citroens, enthusiastic about anything that is comfortable to drive on rural roads in QLD. Don't recomment the current range, as they are too hard to fix.
    • You see little connection between their current range and the cars you love.
    Old Citroens, I can tolerate. New ones I know nothing about, except that the old ones are not as ugly. Sorry, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
    • You continue to use cars over twenty years old as daily transport
    Um, I havn't used a car under thirty years old as a daily driver since my 404 turned 30 and it was a '65 model. My 504 is 32...
    • Is your advice to others to buy a new CitroŽn or do you suggest other marques
    Buy the car which is least worse for your mission. One has to know what one is actually using the car for. The D is good because many of my mates wouldn't be seen dead in it, so I don't get them sponging lifts.
    • You consider a CitroŽn better than a Peugeot.
    No, but both are less worse than Renault and very much less worse than Fiat.
    • The personal influence of Andrť CitroŽn on the marque is important
    Extremely. Boulanger and Bertoni had something to both build on and avoid. (I rank tractions with Fiats...)

    • You value innovation in car design even though it may mean lower initial reliabilty
    No. What I value, and I really mean this, is availability of documentation which makes it possible to maintain the vehicle. This is a major factor in scrapping the 405 SRDT wagon, the literature is not accurate and the thing takes too long to access to work on.

    [/QUOTE]

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