DS temperture gauge
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! badabec's Avatar
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    Default DS temperture gauge

    Hello, the vertical temperature gauge is very rare in the UK. Has anyone tried using a spare petrol gauge as a temp gauge? Surely they are only voltmeters reading a drop or rise in voltage?
    Where does the temp sender live on the block?
    Mine is a 1974 D Super 5.

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    June has a round after market one rather in-elegantly pushed into the space above the ashtray. For all its nastiness, it works well and that's what matters ultimately in this climate with a DS23ie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badabec View Post
    Hello, the vertical temperature gauge is very rare in the UK. Has anyone tried using a spare petrol gauge as a temp gauge? Surely they are only voltmeters reading a drop or rise in voltage?
    Where does the temp sender live on the block?
    Mine is a 1974 D Super 5.
    OEM temp gauge is a rarity here too, I've seen them sell on ebay for insane money. I've also heard of the possibility of converting a fuel gauge but have not seen it done.

    You can get lucky, I scored a gauge that was sold with and instrument cluster in poor condition and the bidding reflected that.

    The sender can be had through the usual sources new, and fits under the water pump, a single wire connects into your loom at the bulkhead 'green sleeved' you should find this floating around the loom where your heater box is.

    Though a nice original touch, they are not to be depended upon, they never were that accurate and for piece of mind a discreet after market gauge may be a good investment too.

    Cheers
    Chris
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  4. #4
    mnm
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    Hi there

    I have a temp guage in my DSPecial. I only just recently discovered the thermostat for the radiator was missing, so I have replaced that... now the temp guage sits at the top of the white band and is quite steady in all driving conditions. Before, without the thermostat it would vary up and down quite a bit.

    If you aren't in a hurry, keep your eyes on French and German Ebay.. they do come up from time to time as part of a complete dash part.. ie the 3 dials unit.

    Matthew

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    Fellow Frogger! Boyracer's Avatar
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    Probably the first mod I did was use a fuel gauge as a temp gauge. It doesn't tell me the actual temperature, but it does give me an indication as to how things are going temperature wise and that's all I need. It was easy enough to do. The only thing you have to be careful to do is nip a corner off one of the copper strips on the fuel gauge or it will straddle two strips on the circuit board.
    Cheers,
    Michael

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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    This was my resolve.DS dash gauges


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  7. #7
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    what about a discrete digital monitor from jaycar?

    they have one 35mm square that can monitor inside and outside temp

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    Fellow Frogger! Mort Subite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyracer View Post
    Probably the first mod I did was use a fuel gauge as a temp gauge. It doesn't tell me the actual temperature, but it does give me an indication as to how things are going temperature wise and that's all I need. It was easy enough to do. The only thing you have to be careful to do is nip a corner off one of the copper strips on the fuel gauge or it will straddle two strips on the circuit board.
    i reckon this is the best option after a true temp guage.
    and yes the circuitry on the rear of the fuel guage will need to be slightly modified - but thats easy.
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    US cars (3rd dash) came standard with a water temp gauge. The wiring for the gauge was never incorporated into the main harness. It was a separate lead (flying lead in the books) with its own rubber protective sheath that was routed via the main loom access hole in the firewall and then secured to it.

    Aussie cars may have had that panel to engine connection pre installed in the loom - I have no way of knowing one way or the other.

    The ones supplied to the US were quite accurate - for the most part. Reading problems were almost always due to dirty connectors.

    Steve

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    US cars (3rd dash) came standard with a water temp gauge. The wiring for the gauge was never incorporated into the main harness. It was a separate lead (flying lead in the books) with its own rubber protective sheath that was routed via the main loom access hole in the firewall and then secured to it.

    Aussie cars may have had that panel to engine connection pre installed in the loom - I have no way of knowing one way or the other.

    The ones supplied to the US were quite accurate - for the most part. Reading problems were almost always due to dirty connectors.

    Steve
    Sounds like the US importers must have had a legal requirement to fit the gauge under your design regulations?

    We in Australia being a smaller market possibly didn't have that clout, as only the higher specified cars came with the gauge as standard, though the wiring was in place on many of the later cars.

    The wiring is quite straight forward for those cars where it is not factory fitted.



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS temperture gauge-tempwiring.jpg  
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    It would seem that as a rule Citroen believed the temp gauge to be of greater importance in colder climates. I have noticed that the Scandinavian cars seem to be always fitted and yet Australian and South African cars missed out.

    To some extent this makes sense. Cold climate delivered cars were frequently fitted with a radiator blind (a shutter in the air supply chute) operated by a chain on the dash board, to assist with more rapid warm up. These cars would have required the driver to monitor the engine temperature to know when to lower the blind.

    The accuracy of the factory gauge can not be questioned as it is not calibrated. Once the driver is aware of the "normal" position then any deviation from this can be seen as such.

    My aftermarket digital temperature gauge has proven very useful as it sounds a Beep when normal operating temp has been achieved, reminding me to open the choke. It also has an alarm for excessively high temperatures which tends to sound only if it has been parked briefly after a hot run but the temperature drops rapidly again on re-starting the engine.
    Michael
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Sounds like the US importers must have had a legal requirement to fit the gauge under your design regulations?

    We in Australia being a smaller market possibly didn't have that clout, as only the higher specified cars came with the gauge as standard, though the wiring was in place on many of the later cars.

    The wiring is quite straight forward for those cars where it is not factory fitted.



    Cheers
    Chris
    Hi Chris,

    Design regulations??? - US??? Now that was good for a hearty laugh and a pint . No - strictly marketing. An upscale car in the US (mid 60's or so) with out full instrumentation was a joke - or at least perceived as one. The only 'design regulations' we got saddled with was LHS until mid 1969 and archaic lighting laws. Both due to US arrogance (or at least on the part of the manufacturers and their lobbyist) - if we had not come with it, it could not be any good..........

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post

    My aftermarket digital temperature gauge has proven very useful as it sounds a Beep when normal operating temp has been achieved, reminding me to open the choke. It also has an alarm for excessively high temperatures which tends to sound only if it has been parked briefly after a hot run but the temperature drops rapidly again on re-starting the engine.
    I'll have to go looking for the link you had posted Michael, I'd definitely fit a similar unit if I can find a discreet location for it (the under dash aircon unit makes that a bit of a task). From memory the sender position gave a better indication of temperature than the factory's sensor off the water pump housing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Design regulations??? - US??? Now that was good for a hearty laugh and a pint . No - strictly marketing. An upscale car in the US (mid 60's or so) with out full instrumentation was a joke - or at least perceived as one. The only 'design regulations' we got saddled with was LHS until mid 1969 and archaic lighting laws. Both due to US arrogance (or at least on the part of the manufacturers and their lobbyist) - if we had not come with it, it could not be any good..........

    Steve
    hahaha Steve,
    You've made me chuckle with you reply
    Is it correct that you guys didn't get the later cars because you (USA) introduced a fixed bumper bar height rule that Citroen could not comply with? Or is this another Citroen myth

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  14. #14
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    hahaha Steve,
    You've made me chuckle with you reply
    Is it correct that you guys didn't get the later cars because you (USA) introduced a fixed bumper bar height rule that Citroen could not comply with? Or is this another Citroen myth

    Cheers
    Chris
    No, that's almost true. I forget which standard it was (I don't know why, but FMVSS 103 stands out), but the highest point of the bumpers had to be of a fixed height- I think it was 13" front starting in 1973, front and rear in 1974. The impact standards were 5mph front and 2.5mph rear in '73, 5mph front and rear in '74. A D at it's lowest can drop the front bumper to about 8" off the ground. The damning thing though wasn't so much the question of hydraulics, although it was a serious consideration. The big problem was that to make the D chassis structure comply, it would have been some really extreme expense against no gain in sales. It just didn't pencil out. It's also why we saw only a small handful of GS', and the CX was a no-go. How the factory managed to get exemptions for the SM beggars belief.
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    No, that's almost true. I forget which standard it was (I don't know why, but FMVSS 103 stands out), but the highest point of the bumpers had to be of a fixed height- I think it was 13" front starting in 1973, front and rear in 1974. The impact standards were 5mph front and 2.5mph rear in '73, 5mph front and rear in '74. A D at it's lowest can drop the front bumper to about 8" off the ground. The damning thing though wasn't so much the question of hydraulics, although it was a serious consideration. The big problem was that to make the D chassis structure comply, it would have been some really extreme expense against no gain in sales. It just didn't pencil out. It's also why we saw only a small handful of GS', and the CX was a no-go. How the factory managed to get exemptions for the SM beggars belief.
    Close, it's FMVSS 215, 103 is for demisters (google).

    So, does that mean essentially you guys have not had any product from Citroen since 1973? What a huge market Citroen have missed out on - with the introduction of anti-sink surely Citroen could/would have complied?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Close, it's FMVSS 215, 103 is for demisters (google).

    So, does that mean essentially you guys have not had any product from Citroen since 1973? What a huge market Citroen have missed out on - with the introduction of anti-sink surely Citroen could/would have complied?

    Cheers
    Chris
    Hi Chris,

    The D's last year was 72 - the SM was 73 for the US market. Citroen Cars shut down their US operations in the late 1970's or early 1908"s, IRRC. We did get a small number of CX's via Trend Auto and a few others, but the majority of later cars we got (and we are not talking about a lot) came via private importation that was allowed with a change in US auto import laws that were implemented, I believe, in the late 80's or early 90's. The fact that Robert and Kim got some 125 cars and close to 300 people at the meet in Saratoga Springs, NY over the 6/15 weekend is pretty amazing. Though more than a few of those cars came down from Canada.

    To me, however, a BVH DS is the standard bearer for Citroen. Fast, comfortable and real pleasure to drive. My 72 DS 21 just passed 609,000 total miles - 113,000 of them mine after acquiring the car in 2002.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Hi Chris,

    The D's last year was 72 - the SM was 73 for the US market. Citroen Cars shut down their US operations in the late 1970's or early 1908"s, IRRC. We did get a small number of CX's via Trend Auto and a few others, but the majority of later cars we got (and we are not talking about a lot) came via private importation that was allowed with a change in US auto import laws that were implemented, I believe, in the late 80's or early 90's. The fact that Robert and Kim got some 125 cars and close to 300 people at the meet in Saratoga Springs, NY over the 6/15 weekend is pretty amazing. Though more than a few of those cars came down from Canada.

    To me, however, a BVH DS is the standard bearer for Citroen. Fast, comfortable and real pleasure to drive. My 72 DS 21 just passed 609,000 total miles - 113,000 of them mine after acquiring the car in 2002.

    Steve
    It's remarkable that you guys have maintained the passion you have with so few cars and I guess enthusiasts. Your informed knowledge of the ins and outs of the D model is outstanding - bravo

    You won't get an argument from me on the DS BVH cars, they are in my view the pinnacle, what followed has been a compromise, more so from 2000 on. Some decent cars but the bar has definitely been lowered.

    Learned a few things today, much appreciated

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    I'll have to go looking for the link you had posted Michael, I'd definitely fit a similar unit if I can find a discreet location for it (the under dash aircon unit makes that a bit of a task). From memory the sender position gave a better indication of temperature than the factory's sensor off the water pump housing.

    Chris
    Here is the location of my temp display. Passengers can not see it and even for the driver it is hidden by my right arm unless I choose to look. I will beep if it needs urgent attention. Beep temperatures are set by the user.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS temperture gauge-display.jpg  
    Michael
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    Here is the location of my temp display. Passengers can not see it and even for the driver it is hidden by my right arm unless I choose to look. I will beep if it needs urgent attention. Beep temperatures are set by the user.
    If my car didn't have air (AutoClima - runs right across left to right) that's where I would install, as it is, my handbrake is almost touching that spot. I might oder one in anyway and get a better idea of where it might fit without being too obvious.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    If my car didn't have air (AutoClima - runs right across left to right) that's where I would install, as it is, my handbrake is almost touching that spot. I might oder one in anyway and get a better idea of where it might fit without being too obvious.

    Cheers
    Chris

    Attached is shot of a 3rd dash instrument cluster that is made by Charles Crittenton here in California (Cabazon, Ca). Fits right in place of the map pocket/radio panel. Chuck did a bang up job of reproducing the 'crinkle' finish of the original. Accepts standard 2" round gauges. The temperature gauge is mounded into the side tank of the radiator, just above the thermoswitch for the aux. electric fan. The oil pressure gauge I have hooked up to the oil sensor position on the engine block with a small adaptor I made - so the idiot light connected to the factory sensor still works.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Attached is shot of a 3rd dash instrument cluster that is made by Charles Crittenton here in California (Cabazon, Ca). Fits right in place of the map pocket/radio panel. Chuck did a bang up job of reproducing the 'crinkle' finish of the original. Accepts standard 2" round gauges. The temperature gauge is mounded into the side tank of the radiator, just above the thermoswitch for the aux. electric fan. The oil pressure gauge I have hooked up to the oil sensor position on the engine block with a small adaptor I made - so the idiot light connected to the factory sensor still works.
    Thanks Steve, I have seen those units and they are a great solution for adding additional gauges - but not for me. I do have a factory temp gauge fitted, the unit Michael has fitted would be a back-up solution it gets its reading from the head which to me is a safer reading?

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  22. #22
    mnm
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    Hi there

    here's one on French ebay... this is the later style guage with the thermometer symbol next to the needle.

    http://cgi.ebay.fr/compteur-citroen-...item4167900748

    Matthew

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Thanks Steve, I have seen those units and they are a great solution for adding additional gauges - but not for me. I do have a factory temp gauge fitted, the unit Michael has fitted would be a back-up solution it gets its reading from the head which to me is a safer reading?

    Cheers
    Chris
    Hi Chris.

    Michael is picking up his temperature reading from the head - unless he put a variable resistance sensor in there - such as the one mounted in the WP manifold - it will not give an accurate reading. The real problem with that position - and have seen this more than a few times - is that the head area where the overheat sensor is mounted - is subject to very localized overheating. Depending on interior condition of the Al (smooth/pitted) one can get somewhat erroneous readings from that location. Typically when this happens it will indicate an overheat condition when does not really exist in the rest of the system. Does not mean the rest of the system is not hot - just not 'stop the car' hot . Problem can be exacerbated by a water pump with a corroded impeller.

    Steve

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    Hello, to use the fuel gauge, do I just use the top and bottom copper strips and get rid of the middle one? I've cut off the locating pips so I can mount it upside down. On the yellow connector block, any idea which terminal I should tap into?
    Thanks. Peter

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    Basically you need +ve, -ve and the single wire from the sender so dont cut the middle terminal.

    There's a blank in the yellow block, run your sender wire to that. The rest is taken care of already. IIRC, that blank connects to the circuit the middle terminal on the gauge uses, so don't cut it...
    Cheers,
    Michael

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