ID 19 rear suspension stupid pin
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Default ID 19 rear suspension stupid pin

    Hello, Again. Another drama here. I have worked on front suspensions. And I was cleaning up rear suspension. I could not remove those pin because it was badly corroded. I have tried to drilled out but bit was not harder than pin. So I have given up and decided to just leave broken pin there.
    I noticed previous owner did dodgy job using wire to connect rod. Now I know why.

    I have used ordinal cloth hanger because I think that was what they used for the other side. But I am worry it might break. But I can see it is not doing much.

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    What do you think what I should do? I don`t want to remove whole rear PART.

    Sorry that photo is not very clear.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ID 19 rear suspension stupid pin-rear_suspension_mod.jpg  

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    A pin punch and a little heat should get it out

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  3. #3
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    Hi-It looks like a 'roll pin'.-you would have probably broken the drill bit as it would have caught on the split edge in the pin.
    I would give a good spray & soak with C.R.C type spray then attempt to punch out the wire in the hole then spray & soak again then try with the correct pin punch & attempt to remove the roll pin.
    Should that fail you may have to purchase some 'freeze your nuts off ' or the like.

    Peter.

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I bet there is already a broken off drill bit in there if he can't drill it. It's a solid wire used here, however it's likely someone has still broken a drill off in there

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    A pin punch and a little heat should get it out

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Wham.
    Small drift and bang that turd out the backside.

  6. #6
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    KAZ,
    Spray the area with WD40 or similar then use a pin punch and small hammer to remove the corroded pin.

    Using the correct replacement pin means a good job and put a little grease on it when replacing.Should it require removal in the future, removal will be much easier.

    Remember the age of the car, these things happen.
    If you're not driving the car waiting for a pair of replacement pins won't hurt.
    Makeshift only, yes a coathanger wire will suffice.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Default Thanks everyone!

    Hello, I have got New original PIN part. I was going to replace to new one.

    I have hit so hard with modified pin punch but It does not move at all.

    Yes , a piece of carbide dremel bit is now permanently stuck. I could actually drilled out one side but the other side does not move at all.
    I have soaked the area with WD 40 for a month but no luck.

    I must try heat next time. I will try heat and everything the other side. But will the heat weaken(soften) the material?

    Citroen parts are bloody hard!!!

    I used Cobalt drill bit because guy at tool shop told me if this can not drilled out nothing could!

    I think my mod. is ok because there is no force there. Suspension does not travel that much because of bump stop. Rod is always pushed against that big ball isn`t it?
    What do you think of mod.?

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    DS
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    I find if the susension rod is in a rigid or pressurized state it can be hard to remove. Make sure the rod is loose and can twist slightly and it MAY be easier to remove.
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    it is easy enough to remove the whole rod, take it off with the rubber boot attached.

    the pin is just a steel wire and should push out, probably easier on a bench in a vice

    i have a spare rod if the pin wont budge

    check the ball which the rod locates into as well, it should be round and well lubricated

    check the rubber boots for splits

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petermelb View Post
    it is easy enough to remove the whole rod, take it off with the rubber boot attached.

    the pin is just a steel wire and should push out, probably easier on a bench in a vice

    i have a spare rod if the pin wont budge

    check the ball which the rod locates into as well, it should be round and well lubricated

    check the rubber boots for splits
    Hello, Peter Are you back? How was holiday? I have managed to remove a rear sphere. Neill`s chain wrench did the trick. Now I have to do the same with the other side(driver side). I need to bring 2 x rear spheres for inspection+ ragas.

    I have removed and inspected suspension cylinder and they were ok. I also opened cover and saw rear height corrector and it looks ok except some leaks. It will benefit from overhauling( I think I need to get part from Germany).

    Actually the PIN is corroded and stuck. I could not drilled out because pin is so hard. I bought another cobalt drill and spray to remove rusty bolt and nuts( it says it release rusty nut in 30 sec.!?)
    Last edited by caparobertsan; 18th June 2012 at 10:13 AM.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Please see first picture. 2nd one is fuel pump from my car. I bought reinforced nitrite rubber sheet for the membrane.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ID 19 rear suspension stupid pin-rear_suspension_mod.jpg   ID 19 rear suspension stupid pin-dsc_0001.jpg  

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    The problem here is the broken bit of drill. It is acting like a wedge, the more you hit it the tighter it gets.
    So, if this thing is going to come out your best bet is to hit it from the other side. A fine pin punch might dislodge the broken drill which would help.
    Peter has the right idea, remove any tension on the part first, by removing the rod.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbwadley View Post
    The problem here is the broken bit of drill. It is acting like a wedge, the more you hit it the tighter it gets.
    So, if this thing is going to come out your best bet is to hit it from the other side. A fine pin punch might dislodge the broken drill which would help.
    Peter has the right idea, remove any tension on the part first, by removing the rod.
    Hello, Thanks for your reply. There is no tension at the moment rod comes off easily. Picture shown is current state.
    Yes currently there is a broken dremel carbide bit stuck so yes I need to hit it from the other side because I have managed to drill pin pin out about 10 mm deep. I know that cup comes out. I have hit really hard from the other side but I do`nt see movement at all. I must lift car higher when I get new jack as current one does not go high + using stand at lowest position.
    I even used hammer drill but drill bit was just too soft(cobalt bit)

    I will try the other side.

  14. #14
    UFO
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    To jack your car up a bit higher, leave it on the stand, lower jack, put a block of wood on the jack plate (assuming you are using a trolley jack or similar) jack the car up. Repeat as necessary.

    Alternately you could put large blocks of wood under the jack.
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    You may get to the point where it is best to sacrifice the ball socket so you can clear the holes, one either side of the socket, for the wire clip. If you keep drilling, you may well open up the hole more than you intend. I guess that's not really a huge problem, but it may allow the ball socket to move about more than it's intended to. You may well find that the ball and socket are badly worn inside in any case. The end of the rod may also have worn quite badly. New parts are available, but Peter seems to have a decent used one.

    Re height correctors ... got caught in a small trap for young players here. DS23 front end decided to nod every 2 seconds - goes, up, goes down, goes up, goes down and so on. Everything has been overhauled and the height corrector moved smoothly on the bench, but seemed to be binding / sticky in operation. It turned out to be the torsion linkage a few poofteenth too far to the left causing the arm to push the corrector's ball joint and thus it's slide left just enough to make it seem sticky. It was OK when cold after realigning the ball a bit, but the problem returned once the linkages had warmed up (It even runs). Moving the clamp on the front rollbar solved this, but I think the problem was originally introduced when we realigned (correctly) the rollbar after replacing the bushes and overhauling the hub carriers/arms earlier in the restoration work. So, that's something else to be aware of when playing with correctors and height adjustment.
    Last edited by David S; 20th June 2012 at 09:59 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    You may get to the point where it is best to sacrifice the ball socket so you can clear the holes, one either side of the socket, for the wire clip. If you keep drilling, you may well open up the hole more than you intend. I guess that's not really a huge problem, but it may allow the ball socket to move about more than it's intended to. You may well find that the ball and socket are badly worn inside in any case. The end of the rod may also have worn quite badly. New parts are available, but Peter seems to have a decent used one.

    Re height correctors ... got caught in a small trap for young players here. DS23 front end decided to nod every 2 seconds - goes, up, goes down, goes up, goes down and so on. Everything has been overhauled and the height corrector moved smoothly on the bench, but seemed to be binding / sticky in operation. It turned out to be the torsion linkage a few poofteenth too far to the left causing the arm to push the corrector's ball joint and thus it's slide left just enough to make it seem sticky. It was OK when cold after realigning the ball a bit, but the problem returned once the linkages had warmed up (It even runs). Moving the clamp on the front rollbar solved this, but I think the problem was originally introduced when we realigned (correctly) the rollbar after replacing the bushes and overhauling the hub carriers/arms earlier in the restoration work. So, that's something else to be aware of when playing with correctors and height adjustment.
    Thanks DAvid Yes that was my intension. Id I could drill out from both side I can remove that cup which makes so much easier to tackle remaining of pin.

    I think I will assemble first to see height corrector need attention. I need to fix Rear SUS then I can put new Liquid and assemble cooling system then I can start the engine.

  17. #17
    DS
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    You may get to the point where it is best to sacrifice the ball socket so you can clear the holes, one either side of the socket, for the wire clip. If you keep drilling, you may well open up the hole more than you intend. I guess that's not really a huge problem, but it may allow the ball socket to move about more than it's intended to. You may well find that the ball and socket are badly worn inside in any case. The end of the rod may also have worn quite badly. New parts are available, but Peter seems to have a decent used one.
    What are you referring to as the "socket"? I thought that on early cars the part the ball sits in is just the cast arm unlike later cars that have a removable cup. Be very gentle with that arm. I've known of two cars where the whole part you are working on has simply broken off while driving. This causes the rod to fly out and suspension failure.
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    It looks to have the usual ball socket / removable cup inside the rubber boot from the photo in post 1. The ball wears out of round although it may still look 'round'. The ball actually comes out, or is meant to, a fact I wasn't always aware of.

    Edit: Looking at the parts book, the dust boot part# remains the same, so it looks about the same externally, but DS points out that it may not have a removable ball cup/socket and the early parts diagrams do not show one. When was the change? Maybe, as late as 1966???

    On which models were those failures? Was there any suggestion as to why? Fatigue? Prior abuse or damage?
    Last edited by David S; 21st June 2012 at 12:35 AM.

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    DS
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    On which models were those failures? Was there any suggestion as to why? Fatigue? Prior abuse or damage?
    Both 1963 ID19. Both L/H side. I suspect lack of attention/lubrication.
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    So, the rod probably started moving about when the ball wore and it cut into the surrounding casting, weakening it? At least with removable cups/seats, you can overcome the wear problem and some of them do wear quite badly. I suppose it would be possible to convert to rear arms taking the removable cup/seat.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Hello, this one has removable cups. And it looks fine. It is really hard, I have tried to turn it plier and slipped but no scratch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Hello, this one has removable cups. And it looks fine. It is really hard, I have tried to turn it plier and slipped but no scratch.
    The ability to harden a part is related to it's size. Case hardening uses the fact that the whole thing is to big to quench to only harden the bit of interest. The combination of a ductile suspension arm casting (which has to be weldable to put the tubular arm on) and a highly hardenable insert sounds like a production engineering development to improve reliability of production and reduce process costs.

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Default It can not be done.

    Hello, Pins are stuck deep and nothing can release them. I have used smaller drills but it just snapped and made worse. I will stick with coat hanger option.

  24. #24
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    My C5 went to the tip because of a series of safety incidents created by a garage replacing a lost rear suspension pin with a hardware store cotter pin.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    My C5 went to the tip because of a series of safety incidents created by a garage replacing a lost rear suspension pin with a hardware store cotter pin.
    oh no~ do you think it is that bad? I feel it is fine because rod is always pushed against cup and ball..... only time that pin matter is when wheel is not touching the ground. I will make sure it will stay in its place. I know what will happen when that rod comes off from socket, piston will go flying and loose all the oil and car be come un drivable. Yes I am looking for really tough drill bits.

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