Engine Oil for Citroen ID 19 1961 model. Advice needed.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Default Engine Oil for Citroen ID 19 1961 model. Advice needed.

    Hello, I am looking for oil for my Id19. Engine cap says USE SAE 20 oil.
    I have looked on-line but I could not get right answer.
    Can I use any SAE0w20,5w20,10w20 oil? I always thought it need thick one because of engine wear.

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    I also think this one is perfect: http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...eran-&-classic


    What do you think?

  2. #2
    UFO
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    20/50 should be fine.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    20/50 should be fine.
    Thanks UFO but will you recommend specific ones (Brand) please. Do you mean 20w50 grade oil?

    is this ok? http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/engine-oils/everyday/everyday_driving_20w-50

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Maybe try the classic light... Penrite is a great oil and still delivers on the "zinc" promise...

    http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...gine_oil_light







    dino

  5. #5
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    I'd say any 20w-50 or thereabouts would be fine. You don't need a fancy grade, SF is more than enough. Those cars have no oil filter so you have to change the oil frequently. (S means petrol (Spark) engine; the higher further along the alphabet the second letter is, the fancier the oil, the Penrite you mentioned is SL).

    Roger

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    castrol gtx will do..... Sometimes you can get it on special for about $12 for 5litres from the supermarket
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  7. #7
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    Default penrite and tail light lenses

    Hi Kaz. Yes I agree with UFO. I buy the Penrite 20w-50w. It's a very good oil although I'm not saying the others are not good. I use Penrite 20w- 50w because it is an oil made for the older cars and it has high tolerances with overheating engines. What I'm saying Kaz, is that it is a very good oil for the older engines. By the way; you would probably be aware that the ID's of the early 1960's do NOT have an oil filter so it means that oil changes have to be done more often. I can't remember the year of your ID. On another subject. You asked me some time ago, if I had any spare tail light lenses. The reason I couldn't help you is because all the ones I have are damaged in some way. Most ID tail light lenses have a melted "blob" infront of the brake light bulb. The reason for this, is that when a replacement bulb was put in, it was too large and the wattage too high. What causes the "meltdown", is that the bulb is too close to the lens and the heat from the "high wattage" therefore melts it. It is quite difficult to find the correct bulbs these days. The popular replacement is the large 21watt bulb which is not suitable. Sitting at a red traffic light, with your foot on the ID brake pedal means that the temperature of the bulb,sitting so close to the lens, causes the meltdown. I use the small 6 watt bulb for the tail lights. This measures 34mm from the base to the top of the globe. The one I found for the Brake Light is a Narva 15 watt and measures 42mm from the base to the top of the globe . The bulb that causes the meltdown is 48mm fom the base to the top of the globe and is 21 watt which is too hot and too close to the lens. The correct wattages are : Brake Lights-15Watt. Tail Lights 5Watt. All this sounds like too much information Kaz but "there you are". Hope you are going well-------- Michael

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Default DONE! Thanks everyone!

    I will get whatever available. Thanks everyone for fast input!

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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    I will get whatever available. Thanks everyone for fast input!
    Be a bit careful - IIRC the oil used in the early cars was also non detergent. Putting a modern high detergent oil in a an old, dirty, engine could be disastrous. The 3 main engines did not have any oil filtration - so a detergent oil will loosen up all the internal crud. There is a more than a bit possible that some of the smaller passage ways could become clogged. It might be a good idea to remove the valve cover and look at the condition of the top of the head. If it looks clean you will most likely be OK. If it is covered in 'crud' - all that stuff will be dissolved by a modern oil formulation.

    Steve

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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Be a bit careful - IIRC the oil used in the early cars was also non detergent. Putting a modern high detergent oil in a an old, dirty, engine could be disastrous. The 3 main engines did not have any oil filtration - so a detergent oil will loosen up all the internal crud. There is a more than a bit possible that some of the smaller passage ways could become clogged. It might be a good idea to remove the valve cover and look at the condition of the top of the head. If it looks clean you will most likely be OK. If it is covered in 'crud' - all that stuff will be dissolved by a modern oil formulation.

    Steve
    Hello, Steve thanks for the advice! I have no touched engine as yet so I am afraid to dismantle any part. But If I put those modern oil and run it for half day or so then drain them and replace with new oil?
    Do you think I could do that?

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    You should be fine with a normal oil such as GTX or something like that. After all, it would have been running these oils for the last 20years

    Do NOT put in a synthetic oil though, I'm pretty sure they are loaded with detergents.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  12. #12
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    Autobarn have a special until Jun 10 2012 in their current catalogue... Penrite HPR30, 20W-60 "may be used where SAE20W-50 oils are recommended". It a 5l bottle (versus normal 4l) @ $35.99.

    20w-60 label also mentions "Extra Ten, Full Zinc, maximum protection" and it looks like this is SM (see Roger Wilkinson's post on these codes)

    Plan to put this in a GS. I can't quite work out the difference between this and PenriteClassic and Light which not on special was $64.99 and possibly misses out on the extra (5th litre)

    John

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    api ratings are different...

    CLASSIC ENGINE OIL LIGHT

    If 1950-1970s era petrol and diesel engines are your passion, this is the range for you. Use
    CLASSIC LIGHT where SAE 30 or old style SAE 20W-50 or 20W oils were originally recommended. For warmer climates or for engines that originally used SAE 40 oils, try
    CLASSIC MEDIUM. CLASSIC HEAVY is your best bet for high ambient temperatures or where old style SAE 50 oils were originally used.
    Key Specifications:
    API SG/CD
    CLASSIC ENGINE OILS
    Codes: CLASL005, CLASM005, CLASH005
    Issue: February 2012
    A range of low detergent engine oils designed specifically for petrol and diesel fuelled vehicles manufactured
    between 1950 and 1980.

    Application
    CLASSIC LIGHT
    Ideal in vehicles operating in cooler ambient temperatures or where old style 20W-50, 20W-40 or straight 30
    grades were originally or subsequently recommended. Also suitable as an engine/transmission oil in BMC
    Minis and in motorcycles. SAE 20W-60.
    CLASSIC MEDIUM
    Ideal in vehicles operating in moderate ambient temperatures or as a summer grade oil if using Classic Light
    Engine Oil as a winter grade. It is also designed for use where SAE 40 grades were originally specified.
    25W-70.
    CLASSIC HEAVY
    Designed for use in high ambient conditions or where SAE 50 oils were originally recommended.
    Ideal for large-engined vehicles suffering from excessive oil consumption. 30-70.
    Customer Benefits
    • Contains optimum quantities of modern additives to suit the vehicles of this period and exceeds the
    originally required oil quality levels.
    • Provides protection against rust and corrosion when vehicle is not used for long periods.
    • Maintains engine cleanliness and provides wear protection.
    • Optimised zinc levels for wear protection equivalent to API SG/CD.
    OPERATING CONSIDERATIONS
    • Typical oil change intervals should not exceed 3,000 miles/5,000km or six months, whichever
    comes first.
    Industry Specifications
    API SG/CD
    Typical Data
    LIGHT MEDIUM HEAVY
    Density at 15C, kg/L 0.885 0.886 0.886
    Flash Point, C 238 219 217
    Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt
    at 40C 224 267 277
    at 100C 24.0 28.0 29.3
    Viscosity Index 134 139 142
    Magnesium, mass % 0.163 0.163 0.163
    Calcium, mass % 0.000 0.000 0.000
    Zinc, mass % 0.161 0.161 0.161
    Phosphorus, mass % 0.144 0.144 0.144


    http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdf...Feb%202012.pdf




    dino

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Hello, Steve thanks for the advice! I have no touched engine as yet so I am afraid to dismantle any part. But If I put those modern oil and run it for half day or so then drain them and replace with new oil?
    Do you think I could do that?
    Pulling the valve cover is not hard. Do you know how much the car had been used prior to you getting it? If a bit then you should be OK. But with any car that has been sitting for some time, doing an oil change after getting it up to temperature for a while is not a bad idea. Modern oils, synthetic or not, have lots of detergent in them.

    Steve

  15. #15
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    HPR 30 20w 60 Penrite is what I use and I change it as soon as it starts to discolour. I figure that it's easier to change the oil than to rebuild an engine; plus the fact there's no filter makes it a simple job.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    HPR 30 20w 60 Penrite is what I use and I change it as soon as it starts to discolour. I figure that it's easier to change the oil than to rebuild an engine; plus the fact there's no filter makes it a simple job.
    At the moment it has oil which is clear so I guess previous owner had replaced prior to sale. Thanks Donat I will try it out. Ah~~~~ Yes you have pink one exactly same one as mine!

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Pulling the valve cover is not hard. Do you know how much the car had been used prior to you getting it? If a bit then you should be OK. But with any car that has been sitting for some time, doing an oil change after getting it up to temperature for a while is not a bad idea. Modern oils, synthetic or not, have lots of detergent in them.

    Steve
    Probably it is not so hard. But because I have not done it before. I know I can remove top engine cover which are held by 2 nuts. But underneath, there are valves and arms, springs which looks intimidating. If It is strait removal and assembly without any adjustment then I might do it. Is that simple job?

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Inspector Clouseau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Be a bit careful - IIRC the oil used in the early cars was also non detergent. Putting a modern high detergent oil in a an old, dirty, engine could be disastrous.
    I am planning to put a synthetic oil - Penrite HPR15 - in the DS next oil change. Is that unwise?

  19. #19
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    At the moment it has oil which is clear so I guess previous owner had replaced prior to sale. Thanks Donat I will try it out. Ah~~~~ Yes you have pink one exactly same one as mine!
    That's right, Kaz. I have Tim's old ID 19, Harriet.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Be a bit careful - IIRC the oil used in the early cars was also non detergent. Putting a modern high detergent oil in a an old, dirty, engine could be disastrous. The 3 main engines did not have any oil filtration - so a detergent oil will loosen up all the internal crud. There is a more than a bit possible that some of the smaller passage ways could become clogged. It might be a good idea to remove the valve cover and look at the condition of the top of the head. If it looks clean you will most likely be OK. If it is covered in 'crud' - all that stuff will be dissolved by a modern oil formulation.

    Steve
    Agreed! you absolutely need to check under the valve cover. If there's a crud buildup, it can loosen with a high detergent oil and hit the oil pickup screen, blocking it. Bye-bye engine!

    Dropping the oil pan to take a look at what's going on in a D is no easy task, but could be worthwhile. If you do, of course, clean it and the oil screen up while you're there

    A bypass oil filter like the Frantz can be installed on a 3 bearing engine, but it's not an easy feat. Toilet paper oil filters are controversial (check the web, talk to folks who've done it, make up your own mind) The three bearing engine offers no easy access to the main oil gallery other than the rockershaft feed. There is a concern that tapping into the Wiggins nut that feeds oil to the rocker shafts can diminish their lube flow.

    You'd want to restrict flow to the filter. A lot of these bypass arrangements have flow restrictors built in. One of the better ones is an Australian design, I believe.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    At the moment it has oil which is clear so I guess previous owner had replaced prior to sale. Thanks Donat I will try it out. Ah~~~~ Yes you have pink one exactly same one as mine!
    Be careful (he says from experience). If the car has been sitting for a while, the crud can fall out of the oil, leaving clear oil . Then you start the engine and stir it all up... If its been in regular use then ignore this post.
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