DS Safari Tyre Sizes
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Inspector Clouseau's Avatar
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    Default DS Safari Tyre Sizes

    In another AF forum there's discussions about tyres from Longstone in the UK. So, another dumb question from me : what's the right size for a DS 23 Safari? They still have (hopefully):
    180HR15 Michelin XAS
    185HR15 Michelin XVS-P

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    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    You may use either.
    Currently I have XVS on my Safari and this week received a set of the XAS for FrankenD.
    Both look great.
    You will probably enjoy the virtues the XVS offers.
    I've only had old, old XAS and wouldn't be fair to comment.

    The new XAS look great.

    The offer can't last forever, so I'm told, so go for it.

    Do yourself a favour and order the Michelin tubes while you're at it, I've never seen them this cheap and they are superb quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Clouseau View Post
    In another AF forum there's discussions about tyres from Longstone in the UK. So, another dumb question from me : what's the right size for a DS 23 Safari? They still have (hopefully):
    180HR15 Michelin XAS
    185HR15 Michelin XVS-P

    Thanks
    I know that Richo will call me and go "Mate, what are you doing!" when I mention this. In the US getting 185 series anything is a PITA. The only ones, even close to reasonable, are the Vredestein Sprint tires. However with a Safari (or post 71 sedan) 205/70x15's work a treat. Have been using them for years on my 72 DS 21 and recently put them on my 69 Wagon. I personally have found the Yokohama Avid TRZ's to have formidable grip, quite, smooth, very responsive as well as having good tread life. Additionally I use them as intended - tubeless - on the standard Cit rims. Have never had a problem with air leakage. And, so long as your rims are undamaged and clean, the wheels are perfectly balanced with no additional weights. This has been true, not only for my own cars, but with several other club members here in the SoCal area who have installed them on their cars.

    Steve

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    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    Default tyres

    you can now buy hankook optimo k715 tyres in 185/80/15 which is exactly he correct size and only 180 each look perfect and ride very well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balki View Post
    you can now buy hankook optimo k715 tyres in 185/80/15 which is exactly he correct size and only 180 each look perfect and ride very well
    Not in the US, though they might be available on special order. The 205/70x15's while a bit wider than 185/80's have the same rolling diameter. The wider tread width provides significantly improved front end grip - however they are unusable in pre 72 sedans for the rear as the rear wing will rub on the outside of the tire. So long as the steering is set exactly at 1.5 turns center to lock (which is factory standard) one will not have a problem in the front. One does want to mount them on rims with the square center hole as these are a bit wider than the rims with the round center hole.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    Not in the US, though they might be available on special order. The 205/70x15's while a bit wider than 185/80's have the same rolling diameter. The wider tread width provides significantly improved front end grip - however they are unusable in pre 72 sedans for the rear as the rear wing will rub on the outside of the tire. So long as the steering is set exactly at 1.5 turns center to lock (which is factory standard) one will not have a problem in the front. One does want to mount them on rims with the square center hole as these are a bit wider than the rims with the round center hole.

    Steve
    Unfortunately Steve, this size is only available as a light truck tyre available in Australia, therefore not suitable for the right characteristics which are complimnetary to the operation of the suspension.

    The same can be said of the previous post by Balki. The tyre is intended for light truck and does not have the sidewall flexibility or construction for a premium ride.

    Hope this helps.

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    Fellow Frogger! Inspector Clouseau's Avatar
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    Thanks Richo. Nice to find a rationalisation for a decision as it was getting confusing with the other options! Is it the offset inner tubes that are the correct ones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Unfortunately Steve, this size is only available as a light truck tyre available in Australia, therefore not suitable for the right characteristics which are complimnetary to the operation of the suspension.

    The same can be said of the previous post by Balki. The tyre is intended for light truck and does not have the sidewall flexibility or construction for a premium ride.

    Hope this helps.

    Richo,

    The 205/70 tires I was talking about (and did not make clear) are the Yokohama tires - which have a quite flexible side wall. Aside from their quite attractive price, the Avid TRZ's (so far) have not required any extra balancing weights added to the rims. This has held true on both of my cars as well as 3 others belonging to local owners. The grip they provide is higher than any of Michelin tires I have used in the past and they give good tread life.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Clouseau View Post
    In another AF forum there's discussions about tyres from Longstone in the UK. So, another dumb question from me : what's the right size for a DS 23 Safari? They still have (hopefully):
    180HR15 Michelin XAS
    185HR15 Michelin XVS-P

    Thanks
    CitroŽn, a wholly owned subsidiary of Michelin at the time designed the DS suspension around a Michelin tyre and vice versa.
    Ride on anything else and you do not have a DS.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Clouseau View Post
    Thanks Richo. Nice to find a rationalisation for a decision as it was getting confusing with the other options! Is it the offset inner tubes that are the correct ones?
    Yes, offset inner tubes are for cars, generally, a non offset type would only be for trucks or commercial vehicles.

    My pleasure to assist and clarify.

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    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    Default tyres

    by the way richo if you check the hankook web site and find this model of tyre it is designed for cars not light comercials or trailers and drives very nicely on a ds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balki View Post
    by the way richo if you check the hankook web site and find this model of tyre it is designed for cars not light comercials or trailers and drives very nicely on a ds
    Better look again Balki, designed as a general performance tyre for compact cars, light recreational vehicles (like Honda CRV) and passenger carrying vans. That is not to say it is not a decent tyre in others eyes.

    This tyre or its suitability was NOT the subject of the thread.

    If you were able to understand the relationship between the Michelin tyre for the D, Michelins design and Citroens part in that design and experience being in a car fitted with the Michelins for any amount of time, I believe your endorsement of the Hankook would be less strenuous.

    By the way Balki, how long you been driving a D series with these Hankook tyres?

    My bud Bib says
    Last edited by richo; 18th May 2012 at 08:10 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default tyres

    when was the last time you did 170kph in your d as i have multiple times in the last few months with hankooks fitted out perform michelins every time they are just an old fashoined tyre that people get excited about and ewaste shit load of money on

    next we will have people wanting the correct original oil for the engine so it goes better and lasts longer

  14. #14
    DS
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    when was the last time you did 170kph in your d as i have multiple times in the last few months
    Great to know there are law breaking DS drivers regularly on Tasmanian roads.

    hankooks fitted out perform michelins every time
    Have you done scientific tests?

    Have you driven DS on XVS?

    Its good to be emotional but I prefer facts.


    I have Kumho Power Stars on my ID19 and they are a fine tyre. They are by no means XVS

    The Federal I have on my Safari are rubbish. I can drfit on wet roads where bald XVS never did that.
    Citroen Car Club of New South Wales member.

    My Citroen ID21F can be seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/frontdr...7605999522616/

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    Default tyres

    does anyone on this forum acutally drive there ds fast enough and i mean around corners and on the straight to get the benifit out of $1200 worth of tyres that after 5 years are as hard as a goats forhead

    I have michelins on a classic peugeot they are 6 years old and down right dangerous as soon as the road gets wet

    better of getting two set of generics and have them nice and fresh every 3 years

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The relationship between the design teams at CitroŽn and Michelin has no connection with Peugeot, who always preferred multiple OEM suppliers.
    It is only recently under PSA ownership that CitroŽn has used anything other than Michelin as original equipment.
    The cost of the tyres is irrelevant. If you own a Michelangelo you don't go down to Home Depot to buy a spray can of varnish to protect the paint.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

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    Default Safety rims....

    Quote Originally Posted by Citroenfan View Post
    I know that Richo will call me and go "Mate, what are you doing!" when I mention this. In the US getting 185 series anything is a PITA. The only ones, even close to reasonable, are the Vredestein Sprint tires. However with a Safari (or post 71 sedan) 205/70x15's work a treat. Have been using them for years on my 72 DS 21 and recently put them on my 69 Wagon. I personally have found the Yokohama Avid TRZ's to have formidable grip, quite, smooth, very responsive as well as having good tread life. Additionally I use them as intended - tubeless - on the standard Cit rims. Have never had a problem with air leakage. And, so long as your rims are undamaged and clean, the wheels are perfectly balanced with no additional weights. This has been true, not only for my own cars, but with several other club members here in the SoCal area who have installed them on their cars.

    Steve
    The trouble with the D rims I have is that they don't have the safety bead rolled into them to retain a tubeless tyre when it goes flat. Fitting tubless tyres to non-safety beaded rims is an offence hereabouts. I suspect the rims for North America had the safety bead. See SAE tyre and rim code.

    Bruce.

  18. #18
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    Bruce, sometimes you have to let blokes (Yanks) such as Steve go by.
    I've called him on the phone already, as he suggested I would.

    You're totally correct in your statement on our wheels.
    The new Michelin XAS I bought actually have "tube type" imprinted on the wall. Personally I prefer to use tubes, that's what the makers (CitroŽn) of the car intended as did the manufacturers (Michelin) of the wheel.
    Happy to presume they collectively knew and know more than I on the subject.

    I told him he was a Bloody scrawny, old, lizard necked, Yank buzzard .

    Steve reckoned the "old" bit was wrong.
    Last edited by richo; 19th May 2012 at 02:13 PM. Reason: clarity of description of Steve Hammond

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default Market variation

    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Bruce, sometimes you have to let blokes (Yanks) such as Steve go by.
    I've called him on the phone already, as he suggested I would.

    You're totally correct in your statement on our wheels.
    The new Michelin XAS I bought actually have "tube type" imprinted on the wall. Personally I prefer to use tubes, that's what the makers of the car ( CitroŽn) intended as did the manufacturers (Michelin) of the wheel.
    Happy to presume they collectively knew and know more than I on the subject.

    Bloody scrawny, old, lizard necked, Yank, buzzard .

    Steve reckoned the "old" bit was wrong.
    I remember when I was working in spare parts finding things "North America only" including wheels for 404s, where tubleless tyres were required. Means Steve wil have wheels that can run tubeless tyres, where we got the same ones used in France.

  20. #20
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    I can only guess how a DS feels on the correct Michelin tyres having only driven one so shod for about 20klm. On the other hand, I have Hankook Optimo K715 on June and have just driven the majority of the 9500 klm round trip to WA and back.

    I have to say that they performed faultlessly.

    They're comfortable, quiet and stable. I've no complaints about them in the dry, damp or on wet roads and, most importantly, they're available at a reasonable price from anywhere you can get a Hankook.

    No, I didn't get anywhere near 170kph, but I did hit 145kph while overtaking a B-Double. I never gave it a second thought and and the capability of the tyres on June were not even a consideration as they were basically new. Change down, push the 'go' pedal and overtake when safe. If I'd had a questionable brand or old tyres on, I may have thought twice not only about doing the trip or exceeding the speed limit, but merely driving the car!

    Unless folk have taken part worn XVS off and replaced with new Hankook Optimo 715 (and who would?) or vice versa, then they're not really in a position to comment on if the XVS are THAT much better or other wise.

    It would be interesting to have people drive back to back 2 similar DS shod with Michelin XVS and the other shod with Optimo K715.

  21. #21
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    This thread is about which Michelin tyre to fit to a specific and particular CitroŽn.
    I answered, based on having a Safari wagon, fitted with Michelins and having owned both types inquired of.

    My concern is for the thread to remain on the thread title with accurate, informed knowledge to help the member who asked the question.

    Personally, I could care less if a Hankook or Kumho or Vredestein, or Yokohama or who flung dung is fitted. It's your car and your money.
    As it so happens I drove the Safari for probably 5,000ks on a set of Hankooks of unknown vintage, which are are now hard as a goats forehead, they still perform okay. They're my spare, spare "spares" or to help others get out of trouble.


    If members need to opine on their choice of other tyres, start another thread.
    Heaven help any newcomer or member attempting to use the search function to seek knowledge on a specific, particular subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    This thread is about which Michelin tyre to fit to a specific and particular CitroŽn.
    I answered, based on having a Safari wagon, fitted with Michelins and having owned both types inquired of.

    My concern is for the thread to remain on the thread title with accurate, informed knowledge to help the member who asked the question.

    Personally, I could care less if a Hankook or Kumho or Vredestein, or Yokohama or who flung dung is fitted. It's your car and your money.
    As it so happens I drove the Safari for probably 5,000ks on a set of Hankooks of unknown vintage, which are are now hard as a goats forehead, they still perform okay. They're my spare, spare "spares" or to help others get out of trouble.


    If members need to opine on their choice of other tyres, start another thread.
    Heaven help any newcomer or member attempting to use the search function to seek knowledge on a specific, particular subject.
    The " Bloody scrawny, (but not) old, lizard necked, Yank buzzard" replies to various items:

    1) Unless one had a EFI 23 5 speed car - you are not going to go a real 170 kph. I have a highly modified 21 engine in my 72 and though I can get it to 165+kph with no problem (this is via a Garmin GPS unit), not the speedo, it does take a bit of time. Not sure there are any roads in Taz straight enough for that to happen with an unmodified DS . Speedo error on a D at those speeds is typically on the order of 08 to 12+ kph fast.

    2) I apologize to youst guys down under about the 205 70 tyres - Richo informed me that you never got that size - if I was able to understand his thick Tazzie accent correctly.

    3) Tire design and the DS. Because of the suspension geometry of the DS the cars require a tire with a flexible side wall. Using tyers with a too stiff sidewall reduces tyre contact patch on the ground under hard cornering. It was not until the mid to late 60's that the other tyre manufacturers started to get an idea of what Michelin was doing with their radial steel belted design. And Michelin was not without their problems in the early days either. They had a massive recall of the original asymmetric tyres in 1967 that were suffering from tread separation problems. The XH/XA/XAS tires have a thicker and less flexible sidewall than the original XStop 165x400 tires. The reason is that the cars they were put on have a less compliant suspension than the early cars. Today, there are more than a few tires that work just fine on a D, even under the most arduous of driving conditions. Having access to 205/70's here, I would never go back to the 185 section tires - especially on the front. As to rain performance. That has as much to do with tread design as it does to the rubber compound used.

    4) Rims - the US got the same rims as the rest of the world. The five lug rims - while minus the so-called safety lan - have had absolutely no problem with running tubeless tyres. I would guess that the majority of D's in the US are on tubeless and AFAIK no one has ever had a problem. As to driving hard - I doubt any of you down under drive your D any harder, or as far, as my 72 has been driven. On our annual motoring tour I constantly amaze the sport car crowd with how well the D stays with the much smaller and more powerful cars, even on tight, twisty roads. And when the road gets rough, I have to use my horn a lot.......... And it just crossed the 609,000 mile mark (not kilometers). While on its 3rd engine, drive shafts/wheel bearings/tripods etc are all original. Have had to replace two ball joints and the transmission (BVH) that got knackered when the original clutch plate failed in between a 2nd to 3rd shift at just under 60mph. The BVH system did not know the clutch pressure plate had failed and tried its level best to get the car into 3rd - accompanied by much mechanical protesting from the synchros and gears.


    5) I just love it when Richo talks 'dirty' to me

    Steve

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