Oil in drip tray under C5 HDI this morning
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  1. #1
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    Default Oil in drip tray under C5 HDI this morning

    Hi
    After the wife went to work (the reason I am able to "retire") I noticed some oil in the drip tray that was under the car - for just that purpose. As I do keep the tray clean I can say that it has only started in the past 3 days.
    It is not engine oil as it is not a black/brown colour. It is quite clean, and smells (from my finger not from sniffing the tray ) clean and does not have a burned smell. It has no colour to it.
    I am experianced with LHM being green from BX ownership and know that LDS is different, but what colour is LDS, if coloured at all?
    The only other oil I can think of would be AL4 gearbox oil which I know is a clear light weight oil. Any known leaks from the gearbox? I did change the gear oil, but that was 4 months ago so I doubt the drain plug would have come loose now; but this is a checking point for sure.
    Just trying to get an idea before the car gets home - oh, and the wife too .
    The amount of oil was small, not enough to worry about for the 15km drive to work and back I think. Either way the car has to get home .

    Cheers
    Michael

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  2. #2
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    Default Oil ?

    Hi,
    My suggestion would be a leak from the front hydraulic hoses. They can develop a leak from the crimped join between the flexible and the steel tubes. On mine the oil drips out the bottom of the cover tube which encloses the three of them on the drivers side. It leaks over the suspension arm bush etc under the drivers feet.

    The solution probably is to replace the tubes with new ones. Looks like a fidley job which is why I have not done mine yet.

    Anybody actually have any direct experience with doing this job, or having it done.
    Jaahn

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I've heard it's very expensive to replace those hoses (on here). I could live with quite a bit of leakage/weepage before I worried about it. a couple of litres a year is nothing compared the ~ $2500 prices I've heard here for suspension and steering hoses!

    Can you upgrade it to CX lines That was my fix for the XM too. Wherever possible repair what was broken with CX parts .... that way the repair was free and lasted the life of the car

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
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    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael16v View Post
    Hi
    After the wife went to work (the reason I am able to "retire") I noticed some oil in the drip tray that was under the car - for just that purpose. As I do keep the tray clean I can say that it has only started in the past 3 days.
    It is not engine oil as it is not a black/brown colour. It is quite clean, and smells (from my finger not from sniffing the tray ) clean and does not have a burned smell. It has no colour to it.
    I am experianced with LHM being green from BX ownership and know that LDS is different, but what colour is LDS, if coloured at all?
    The only other oil I can think of would be AL4 gearbox oil which I know is a clear light weight oil. Any known leaks from the gearbox? I did change the gear oil, but that was 4 months ago so I doubt the drain plug would have come loose now; but this is a checking point for sure.
    Just trying to get an idea before the car gets home - oh, and the wife too .
    The amount of oil was small, not enough to worry about for the 15km drive to work and back I think. Either way the car has to get home .

    Cheers
    Michael
    UPDATE
    Worry got the better of me, and I picked up the car from wife's work - she now has the BX16v so had better be good to it
    Degreased the underside of engine. Oil definately coming from gearbox area. Looks to be coming down from the back of the box, and dripping onto the subframe tie bar. Drive shaft outputs look dry, but theey are not easy to see when laying on my back with poor vision. Definately not the drain plug. After cleaning and then a drive the oil appears to be coming from the join between the engine and gearbox. Gearbox input seal ?
    If so a gearbox removal is required - way outside my capabilities!!!

    Cheers
    Michael
    Last edited by michael16v; 8th May 2012 at 04:24 PM. Reason: more information

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael16v View Post
    UPDATE
    Worry got the better of me, and I picked up the car from wife's work - she now has the BX16v so had better be good to it
    Degreased the underside of engine. Oil definately coming from gearbox area. Looks to be coming down from the back of the box, and dripping onto the subframe tie bar. Drive shaft outputs look dry, but theey are not easy to see when laying on my back with poor vision. Definately not the drain plug. After cleaning and then a drive the oil appears to be coming from the join between the engine and gearbox. Gearbox input seal ?
    If so a gearbox removal is required - way outside my capabilities!!!

    Cheers
    Michael
    Gee's don't ever look at any of my cars if you worry about a few drips appearing underneath

    I worry when they gush ........ That means you likely won't make it home, and it costs serious $$$ to replace the lost fluid. Apart from that .... it's nice rust prevention that'll coat the entire bottom of the car in time

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  6. #6
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    LDS is an obvious orange and you would be able to roughly check the level by placing the car to low suspension position and seeing if it's at the seam of the tank. When it weeps it can partially evaporate, leaving bright orange sticky drip shaped globules hanging from the underside of pipes. If it's more than this, then it's more than just sweaty. The problem with larger LDS leaks is that, like LHM, it will affect some of the rubber it comes in contact with.

    Brake fluid in the C5 is DOT4 and is usually golden in colour.

    Factory gearbox fluid is more of a golden colour when fresh. You reckon you changed it, so it should be fairly fresh looking. Did you check the level by waiting for it to reach 60C and having it run over the internal weir? If you overfilled it, then it cold be from the breather?

    If it looks likes it's coming from the bellhousing, then you need to get it looked at on a hoist. If it's coming from the converter, then you have a major repair on you hands as it may just be the seal, but it may also be the pump failing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    LDS is an obvious orange and you would be able to roughly check the level by placing the car to low suspension position and seeing if it's at the seam of the tank. When it weeps it can partially evaporate, leaving bright orange sticky drip shaped globules hanging from the underside of pipes. If it's more than this, then it's more than just sweaty. The problem with larger LDS leaks is that, like LHM, it will affect some of the rubber it comes in contact with.

    Brake fluid in the C5 is DOT4 and is usually golden in colour.

    Factory gearbox fluid is more of a golden colour when fresh. You reckon you changed it, so it should be fairly fresh looking. Did you check the level by waiting for it to reach 60C and having it run over the internal weir? If you overfilled it, then it cold be from the breather?

    If it looks likes it's coming from the bellhousing, then you need to get it looked at on a hoist. If it's coming from the converter, then you have a major repair on you hands as it may just be the seal, but it may also be the pump failing.
    Hi David
    Thanks for the info on the LDS. It is not that, it is definately gearbox oil. After looking at various forums and factory "gearbox leak" information I think it is from the gearbox input seal, or gearbox pump . No1 son, (motor mechanic on Jap cars ) agrees this is the most likely problem as there are no gearbox issues other than the leak.
    So off to the gearbox place to get a quote on removal, replace seal and refit. This is not a job I can do in the back yard unfortunately.
    As an asside: I contacted the closest Citroen dealer to me to get a "guesstumation" on the cost assuming just a seal replacement. Well, I am still waiting for a call back. Guess they are not interested in the work; or a chance to get me into a new car!!
    Cheers
    Michael

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael16v View Post
    Hi David
    Thanks for the info on the LDS. It is not that, it is definately gearbox oil. After looking at various forums and factory "gearbox leak" information I think it is from the gearbox input seal, or gearbox pump . No1 son, (motor mechanic on Jap cars ) agrees this is the most likely problem as there are no gearbox issues other than the leak.
    So off to the gearbox place to get a quote on removal, replace seal and refit. This is not a job I can do in the back yard unfortunately.
    As an asside: I contacted the closest Citroen dealer to me to get a "guesstumation" on the cost assuming just a seal replacement. Well, I am still waiting for a call back. Guess they are not interested in the work; or a chance to get me into a new car!!
    Cheers
    Michael
    Is there a torque converter cover plate at the bottom of the bell housing you can remove That way you could try and verify it is indeed the gearbox input shaft before undertaking such a big expensive job. it will be expensive as the whole lot will need to come out. The manual gearboxes I've replaced that seal in you need to strip the primary and secondary shafts from. NOT a minor job at all

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Is there a torque converter cover plate at the bottom of the bell housing you can remove That way you could try and verify it is indeed the gearbox input shaft before undertaking such a big expensive job. it will be expensive as the whole lot will need to come out. The manual gearboxes I've replaced that seal in you need to strip the primary and secondary shafts from. NOT a minor job at all

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    No, no cover plate I can see, or in the Haynes book of Fairy tales. I am hopeing the seal on the AL4 box can be replaced externally - like "normal" box's. But then again it is French!!!
    Cheers
    Michael

  10. #10
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    The seal would not require a gearbox strip down, but the casing needs to be split to get at the pump. It's possibly the pump, so paying someone to change seal alone may end up being wasted effort. You are part way to a major repair, so consider whether an overhaul might not be a better option and then plan to keep the car longer. It will be less expensive than buying a new one. On the other hand, if you are thinking of a new car, this is probably a good time as you can buy a new C5 (1.6 turbo petrol, coil springs etc.) from $33K (SMH banner ad a fortnight ago, but obviously varies) and that's pushed used values down a bit. If the transmission places you speak to have never rebuilt an AL4, use someone else as the risk of a stuff up is fairly high. Speak with a couple of the Sydney dealers and ask their advice and possibly for a referral to a competent transmission specialist.
    Last edited by David S; 9th May 2012 at 10:57 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The seal would not require a gearbox strip down, but the casing needs to be split to get at the pump. It's possibly the pump, so paying someone to change seal alone may end up being wasted effort. You are part way to a major repair, so consider whether an overhaul might not be a better option and then plan to keep the car longer. It will be less expensive than buying a new one. On the other hand, if you are thinking of a new car, this is probably a good time as you can buy a new C5 (1.6 turbo petrol, coil springs etc.) from $33K (SMH banner ad a fortnight ago, but obviously varies) and that's pushed used values down a bit. If the transmission places you speak to have never rebuilt an AL4, use someone else as the risk of a stuff up is fairly high. Speak with a couple of the Sydney dealers and ask their advice and possibly for a referral to a competent transmission specialist.
    I hope it is the seal and not the pump. Got the car booked into a auto box place locally for next week.
    I have tried to contact 2 Citroen dealers in the past 72 hours, one in Wollongong and 1 in west Sydney. Both are yet to return my call I am not surprised as when I mentioned that the car was a 2001 model and I was after some initial advise as to what to do I could feel the cold shoulder over the phone. I thought that most of the income to dealers was from service work, not sales. Also I would have thought that having a car in for repair was a good time to talk the owner into updating.
    Oh well, that is their problem I guess. Just pi$$%'s me off.

    Cheers
    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael16v View Post
    UPDATE
    Worry got the better of me, and I picked up the car from wife's work - she now has the BX16v so had better be good to it
    Degreased the underside of engine. Oil definately coming from gearbox area. Looks to be coming down from the back of the box, and dripping onto the subframe tie bar. Drive shaft outputs look dry, but theey are not easy to see when laying on my back with poor vision. Definately not the drain plug. After cleaning and then a drive the oil appears to be coming from the join between the engine and gearbox. Gearbox input seal ?
    If so a gearbox removal is required - way outside my capabilities!!!

    Cheers
    Michael
    Gearbox overhaul time I reckon. My 2003 C5 developed slight leak from same place at 39,000 Citroen dealer changed the box under warranty. Came from Adelaide by wheelbarrow, via Broom, Perth and Darwin I think
    Most transmission shops pobably won't be interested in replacing just the seal because that may not be the issue, they'll want to overhaul the box, cost $5K. best of luck

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael16v View Post
    I hope it is the seal and not the pump. Got the car booked into a auto box place locally for next week.
    I have tried to contact 2 Citroen dealers in the past 72 hours, one in Wollongong and 1 in west Sydney. Both are yet to return my call I am not surprised as when I mentioned that the car was a 2001 model and I was after some initial advise as to what to do I could feel the cold shoulder over the phone. I thought that most of the income to dealers was from service work, not sales. Also I would have thought that having a car in for repair was a good time to talk the owner into updating.
    Oh well, that is their problem I guess. Just pi$$%'s me off.

    Cheers
    Michael
    You are not alone! Once we turn grey or bald we cease to exist....mentioned the fatal word 'retired' and we disappear completely. You have run the complete gauntlet with the dealers...advice for a retired codger with a 2001 car.
    Let a transmission guy look at it as you have arranged. I sold my 2006 C5 because I COULD NOT GET ANY SERVICE FROM THE DEALERS. Non dealers don't want to know about (quote) 'French shit' (unquote). I bought a Mitsubishi. Get used to being treated this way mate, it can really get you down otherwise. Do what I do; lay in bed at night and dream of winning he lottery and buying the dealership and sacking all of the bastards!
    I might act like an idiot, and I might look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: I really AM an idiot!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkev414 View Post
    You are not alone! Once we turn grey or bald we cease to exist....mentioned the fatal word 'retired' and we disappear completely. You have run the complete gauntlet with the dealers...advice for a retired codger with a 2001 car.
    Let a transmission guy look at it as you have arranged. I sold my 2006 C5 because I COULD NOT GET ANY SERVICE FROM THE DEALERS. Non dealers don't want to know about (quote) 'French shit' (unquote). I bought a Mitsubishi. Get used to being treated this way mate, it can really get you down otherwise. Do what I do; lay in bed at night and dream of winning he lottery and buying the dealership and sacking all of the bastards!
    Oh well said, I'm with you on that. Sack 'em and give 'em a reference saying "not suitable for this industry".

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