CX wagon towbar ideas
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Default CX wagon towbar ideas

    Hey guys,
    Just wondering if anyone has had any experience fitting an aftermarket towbar or in fact any towbar from one car to another?
    I'd like to have one fitted to my CX wagon and especially one of those newer types with the removable towball and tongue...you know the ones where you just see the square tube. Must save lots of shin bruising!
    I could've put this in tech/resto section but thought I'd get more lookers here.
    So what I thought I'd do is measure the attachment points and then head down to the local wreckers and find one that measures up. Sound like a plan? I have a friend that can do a pretty good job of welding/ attachment so whadyarecon?
    -Andy

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Does Kimmo have one of the wagons he has ?

    Best bet would to be find a 2nd hand one to either copy or buy

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Yeah Kimmo had a spare and I went to fit it but there was no clearance around the exhaust pipe. I was thinking if I could get a towbar from a wrecker that has the ability to be mounted on the CX wagon frame, perhaps with some modification and welding.......

    It's part of a bigger plan to restore the car back to roadworthy...it needs panel and paintwork but is mechanically very good. The previous owner looked after it quite well but it only got halfway in getting the bodywork sorted.

    I'm going all mod so matte paintwork in camo green/black, 16'' inch alloys, tinted windows, and funked up interior. The doorcards are perfect but might just get a respray in orange! The engine is quite lacking being a 2000 model but economy is pretty good and I don't want to bugger around too much with it. If someone has the money and time later I don't want to make it impossible to restore to original.


    CX2000 wagon by andxeron, on Flickr
    Last edited by Andy N; 10th April 2012 at 07:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    A few years ago....

    CitroŽn CX Break by mark.mitchell.brown, on Flickr

    A few months ago

    CX2000 wagon rear by andxeron, on Flickr

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    This is the sort of paint I'm thinking....roof mounted machine gun optional! The supplier also supplies to the Australian army and the paint is invisible to infrared night vision.....which is handy if you find yourself in a warzone...probably unlikely driving to uni and back but you never know.

    VW-Touareg-Military by andxeron, on Flickr

    And these are the wheels I already own and they fit nicely on the wagon.


    CX mags by andxeron, on Flickr

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Oh no I've hijacked my own thread!! See not even about a towbar but a full resto!!??

    Maybe a matte black would look quite good...if it can look this good on a Volvo wagon!! Yeah that's right crazy...actually this was a professional job done in a satin black with a flat clear on top....and top luxo car buyers are paying extra to get it!

    Volvo satin black wagon by andxeron, on Flickr

  7. #7
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Last weekend I used my CX to tow an 8x5 cage trailer with parts from Brisbane to somewhere betwixt Toowoomba and Warwick.... and back with more parts.

    Being a 2400 5 speed, I didn't feel that the ratios provided gave me sense of oomph (a 4 1/2th gear would've been ideal), but the car certainly managed to crawl up hills without too much drama and everyone took the liberty of overtaking me, even when I was driving at the designated speed 99% of the time. The car didn't overheat (not counting the fuel pump).

    The only downside is that where I'd get 500+km a tank trailerless, I was flat out getting 400km from a full tank of 98 octane.

    I really wonder how/why people tow caravans across vast distances when I'm almost certain that it's cheaper to just get a motel room for the night and you're putting a lot less stress on your car.

    Which leads me to the question for all those reading, how many kg of stuff (trailer inclusive) can a CX tow? Would I be able to tow a GS on a car trailer with it?

    Cheers and apologies for the partial hijacking...!
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    Last weekend I used my CX to tow an 8x5 cage trailer with parts from Brisbane to somewhere betwixt Toowoomba and Warwick.... and back with more parts.

    Being a 2400 5 speed, I didn't feel that the ratios provided gave me sense of oomph (a 4 1/2th gear would've been ideal), but the car certainly managed to crawl up hills without too much drama and everyone took the liberty of overtaking me, even when I was driving at the designated speed 99% of the time. The car didn't overheat (not counting the fuel pump).

    The only downside is that where I'd get 500+km a tank trailerless, I was flat out getting 400km from a full tank of 98 octane.

    I really wonder how/why people tow caravans across vast distances when I'm almost certain that it's cheaper to just get a motel room for the night and you're putting a lot less stress on your car.

    Which leads me to the question for all those reading, how many kg of stuff (trailer inclusive) can a CX tow? Would I be able to tow a GS on a car trailer with it?

    Cheers and apologies for the partial hijacking...!
    1500kg is the maximum I've ever found a CX can legally tow. So a GS, yes, but not on any rental trailer (which can easily weigh 1200kgs *empty*.... no! ). CX's will get about 18L/100kms towing (15mpg) and the turbo will consistently get 8.3L/100kms cruising the roads not towing (34mpg). You likely won't find *any* vehicle that gets better than 15mpg towing unless it's a turbo diesel regardless of engine size. The cars with bigger engines just do it a lot easier

    If you already have a towbar there, just re-route the exhaust so it fits!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Cheers, Shane. I regularly get 11-12l/100km regardless of how I drive unladen which I'm happy with as the EFI autos used to give me less power and 16-18l/100km.

    A GS is 900kg (I'm sure a Pallas would add another 50kg of re-enforcement and bling) so I'd need a trailer that would be around 600kg - so it looks like I won't be towing a GS anytime soon. The hire trailers for cars look monstrous and I'm sure its matched in weight, too.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    The CX 2000 just manages to tow itsef!! I won't be using it much for towing just want to be able to occasionally hook up a box trailer.
    Talking about towing GS's well my GS wagon has a towbar but I've decided to put it away as it's just leaking too much oil now and it just seems wrong to keep pushing it.
    Could be just as easy to get a towbar for the Xsara...just doesn't seem like the obvious towcar!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    car didn't overheat (not counting the fuel pump).
    An aftermarket electric fuel pump?
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy N View Post
    Yeah Kimmo had a spare and I went to fit it but there was no clearance around the exhaust pipe. I was thinking if I could get a towbar from a wrecker that has the ability to be mounted on the CX wagon frame, perhaps with some modification and welding.......
    That was a well dodgy towbar. It looked like they had built the exhaust around the towbar and not the other way round
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  13. #13
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    Default Blue CX wagon

    Andy, don't destroy that car mate, please

    I saw that car ages ago at Tom Dolan's and I remember him saying at the time what a good car it was, and that the owner had spent bucket loads on it.

    They are so rare in Australia.

    Why not sell it to somebody who loves them in original state, and let them deal with it.

    That car with mat paint, and funky interior and whatever else you are wanting to do, will eventually end up on the tip, or just ripped up for parts.

    It looked great in blue.

    I personally would pay more attention to a really nice restoration than some suburban warrior vehicle with Kath's words written all over it: "look a mooeee" (in Julia G's accent).

    Sit tight on it mate, because it is a lovely old car.

    Chris Mortimer

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Chris but I just don't intend spending so much money just for the sake of being original. I have kept many Cits in the last few years and looked after them in completely original condition. If anyone is willing to restore this wagon and would like to give me some money for it then sent me a PM. I just know that I won't get any offers because nobody wants an early CX wagon anymore.

    Do you think it's better to let it go until I have the resources to do a proper resto? .... or should I slap on some paint and keep it running however common it may look to some? At least it will be on the road and not rusting away in some shed in the hills where it is now.

    I know it is a rare car but it is worthless in it's present condition except to me. It's easy to point out how the car should be but if you saw what it is like now you would agree that it needs a huge amount of work.

    The main plan is to just get some paint on to slow down the rust that is coming on and then it can be fixed up later on.
    Last edited by Andy N; 14th April 2012 at 03:15 PM.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    The original Safari on safari......


    CX safari original brochure by andxeron, on Flickr

  16. #16
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    Default Cx

    Andy, the thing is glorious.

    The safari pic is a winner too. That isn't the same care is it?

    Sorry to be brutal, and please don't take this the wrong way, but if you did those things, it would be like sticking a chev engine into a Jag. Dudes who love these cars don't consider them real anymore.

    Getting that car back to the condition of the original pic at a car day, surely that would need a coat of paint and some mechanical - I would have to read up on it again to get up with the condition.

    I'd you say it is leaking or something major is wrong with it mechanically?

    Another idea and I may be out of line again, but would selling them be an option to best offers between a low point and a high point that you specify?

    Let the surplus machinery go, because nobody wants to sit and watch cars rot in front of them. Then just keep the safari and gradually take it back to original, on your timeframe. That is what I have recently done with my 2cv, but it has taken a long while.

    I would think that in that original state, selling might even be a Shannon's Motors Auctions matter, and could end up getting real dollars. It is a very rare car indeed.

    If you have the history of that car, and know who imported it etc, it is a collectable.

    Please reconsider doing what you mentioned, and if you really love the car, let somebody else take it on to get it back to the original state, even if it means selling for less than what you think it is worth plus any other surplus cars. My two cents worth and absolutely no intention of treading on your toes

    Chris

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    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    I have seen the car few times and it surely needs more than a coat of paint. That shiny blue paintwork hides the rotten panels quite well. Shinier the paint - worse the rust in many cases. If you look at the photo taken at a French car day or something, you notice the re is band of black masking tape in the left rear corner - it is there because there is no metal left in that area.
    I would rather see non-original colour on a solid metal than original shine painted on rust. I got a CX wagon that was done with the latter option - sure the paintwork was nice and cost a lot.

    I am not sure how the matte colour would suit this vehicle. I tried to "photoshop" the picture with matte green but run out of skills. The original colour would cost about $250 (just top coat) and matte paint would be about $75. Painting in matte colur would mean no cutting an polishing and I would assume also any future touch ups would be easier.
    I completely agree with the interior - it is funky enough as it is.

    I would probably paint my silver CX wagon in silver - but not the same it is now - I would go for Gris Perle so it was the same colour as my CX Prestige.
    Last edited by kimmo; 14th April 2012 at 07:06 PM.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    In the real scheme of things, CitroŽn owners tend to be more faithful to originality than Peugeot and Renault owners from what I can see.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    In the real scheme of things, CitroŽn owners tend to be more faithful to originality than Peugeot and Renault owners from what I can see.
    that's because Peugeot and Renault were not that good originally
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    OK thanks guys for your advice here, I do agree with you Chris it would be better to to the right thing here and if Kimmo is right and the original paint would be $250 then that is not too much to spend.

    The only thing is that I'll be seeking Kimmo's help to do the respray, as he has had a few goes now and has worked out how to go about it. My fear is that if I went to buy the proper paint but ended up doing an average job (which is almost guaranteed for a first timer) it would have to be redone again anyway if it were to be taken seriously.

    Mechanically it is very good, engine is smooth and quiet. I bought new front spheres and Kimmo kindly gave me some proper D type rear spheres which I had regassed. I've had some trouble getting the right size tie-rod ends and the reengineering went a bit pear shaped so that is next as there is alot of movement in the RH side. Otherwise, the radiator needs a good clean out and there are little things that only take a little time to sort.

    It has been very well looked after, it just hid a heap of nasty rust under that shiny respray. The respray was probably what Richard spent the most money on when he had it but like a lot of these shiny paint jobs just hide what is going on under the surface. I plan on prepping the panels as well as I can and then see if I can afford the time to get the paint right. There is a bit more grinding and welding to be done first.

  21. #21
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    Andy, that is great news mate and I really think that car needs to be thought of as special.

    When you think about it, there are probably less of those things in Australia than 2cvs, SM's, and even D Safaris. Probably on par with Dyannes and Amis in terms of numbers.

    If it is good, which is what I suspected because I know Tom well, and he said it was a very good machine back then, that had everything ever needed done. in terms of a purchase, it would have been a good one, and certainly not a case of buying a whole lot of someone else's problems.

    Try to be really careful with the paint, and I reckon for what it is worth, the finish and appearance that it ultimately ends up with will make or break in terms of value. A top finish will mean it has value, and a rough around the edges job means that the next guy has to fix it all over again.

    It looks like you have done lots already, but I think it is really worth getting it really right.

    I think next time you try to sell with it looking good, you may find someone snaps it up.

    If I had some storage space and wasnt obsessing over D's at present, I would very happily buy it off you. But it would be restored to its former glory for certain.

    Chris

    Btw, I am still devistated that someone could buy my lovely old GS wagon and let it go literally, and to think that now it has either been scrapped or neglected and effectively destroyed will stay with me forever

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    There is so much prep work to be done with this so I think that I'll get through that and see how I go after that.

    If spending the extra to get the paint right means that it is worth something then that is desireable.

    I would still drive around with the Alfa wheels though! The originals are needing new tyres and a tidy up anyway so when it comes time to sell I'll do them up again for sale and chase down a missing hubcap. I do really like the original wheels, they just need tyres and hubcap and respray etc.

    And ok no crazy orange door trims. I may put in a new stereo unit and speakers though but nothing that involves modifying anything to fit.

    It would be quite nice to do it well and show Richard what he wanted to do but was unable to have finished at the time. I remember he had the wagon at the first CX day organised in Sydney and it was really quite nice, but I ended up buying the rusty silver one. I ended up owning three of those cars, all quite rare in terms of Australian CX's.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Here it is back in 2008 I think. I drove down in my CX2500 diesel, the two wagons on the left I have also owned.


    cx day by andxeron, on Flickr

  24. #24
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    Default CX relief

    Andy, be gentle with it.

    Those pics are brilliant, and time cannot be replaced. That car had its prime years, and you alone have the ability to put back. Nobody else can, and we others can ony sit back and watch what happens.

    Both cars are special. They are imports that have done solo boat rides by people who have found them to be special. They landed here as one of a kinds.

    You are lucky to have them, and as I said, if I could store, would happily buy from you. Both if necessary.

    We have to preserve these cars and avoid people who are after dough for parts, people who bastardized and want attention, philistines, posers and that kind of crap.

    That car comes after DS safari. That is a huge undertaking. A reason to save and not ruin.

    You have such a good one. Preserve it. When you can't live with anymore, let me know and I will rent shed or garage and look after until I have the means. if I can!!

    Chris

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    I only have one CX now Chris and a GS wagon which will be a later restoration. I'm buzzing around in a Xsara right now and the more I drive it the more I want the CX back.

    I miss the way the hydropneumatic suspension looks after you...it's a frequency thing you know? I haven't had a headache for years and started to after bumping around in the Xsara...found it is putting my neck out and it's not like I'm 85 I just get tired of the way every other car jiggles you about like this. Weird but a hydraulic Cit kind of nurses you along...truly designed for the human body.

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