1965 Citroen DS19 with red system
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  1. #1
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Default 1965 Citroen DS19 with red system

    Hello all,

    I am currently living in Italy and I have a 1965 DS19 Pallas with semi-automatic gearbox. Being a '65 it has the red hydraulic system. Not ideal from a maintenance perspective but it is currently in good condition.

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    I am returning to Australia next year and I am currently debating whether I should sell the DS or bring it with me. My question is the availability of specialists able to repair and service these cars in Australia, specifically in Melbourne.

    Is it reasonably easy to find reliable specialists? What is the availability of parts like in Australia? My DS has spent most of its life in the Netherlands where I bought it and there are many many specialists there.

    My other question is the requirements for registering such a car in Victoria. It is left hand drive which I know is ok if it is an old timer. But do you have to put big LEFTHAND DRIVE stickers on it or anything? Hopefully not. And what tests does it have to pass in order to be registered?

    I look forward to hearing back as I don't really want to sell the DS but I also don't want to be in the situation of owning a car that is difficult and expensive to look after. If I sell it I will buy instead a green hydraulic system car in Australia.

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If you want a DS BVH of any sort in Australia, you will struggle to find one. There a very few on the roads here, they are almost never for sale

    2nd nose BVH's would probably be the rarest of the lot If DS's are worth a lot of money where you live now, you could possibly buy a much better car in Australia for the same money. D's seem cheaper here than elsewhere in the world. If you want another 2nd nose BVH I'd suggest you need to bring your car with you!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! lozenge's Avatar
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    a reply to one question: no, if your car is registered in Victoria,
    it doesn't have to have any signage indicating that it's left hand drive.
    regards, Lo.

  4. #4
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Hmm tricky. I do want a second nose and the old dash. And yes I have been looking on the for sale sites in Australia and there are almost no DSs for sale. I still have some time in Europe so I think I will try to sell my 1965 and buy a 1967. I'd really prefer the green system for the sake of reliability.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    G'Day!
    Please bring your 65 Pallas out with you. It is extremely rare out here. I owned one ( a DS19M Pallas) but it was a right hand drive car with the manual box. It was the only one I have ever seen. Sadly having spent its early life with the NATO forces in Europe it was affected by salt. The car became very rusty but was still a delight to drive. The remnants are now held by a friend who has vowed to return the car to the road. He has obtained a replacement chassis from an ID and can begin to build it as a Pallas. I wish him luck.
    Cheers Gerry
    Last edited by gerrypro; 27th March 2012 at 07:50 PM.

  6. #6
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Well I will think about it

    Currently I can't seem to sell it so it is a moot point. Apparently people don't buy classic cars during financial crises

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default Credit squeeze.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSnoek View Post
    Well I will think about it

    Currently I can't seem to sell it so it is a moot point. Apparently people don't buy classic cars during financial crises

    They don't buy private aeroplanes iether...

  8. #8
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Here is a pic of my '65 so you know what I'm talking about

    And a link to more: https://picasaweb.google.com/1117584...roenDS19Pallas
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1965 Citroen DS19 with red system-img_0537.jpg  

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    that is a very nice and very rare car, I hope you bring it to Australia.

    Shipping and import is easy, make sure you get import approval from DOTARS BEFORE shipping the car.

    Registration should not be a big problem, you will most likely have to change seat belts, if the windsrceen has any defects that may need to be changed,

    If you go for limited registration you will need a road worthy certificate (RWC) which you can get from most garages, but for a Citroen it is best to go to a specialist.

    If you want full registration, you will most likely need an engineers certificate as well to show compliance with Australian regulations.

    There is enough knowledge in Melbourne and Australia to maintain your car, I do not see a green fluid car would have any advantages providing your car is driven regularly and has regular fluid changes

  10. #10
    UFO
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    You know the car and you know it is rare and difficult to obtain here. Bring it with you. It may cost some but at least you will have it.

    As others have said, get approval BEFORE even shipping it or you may find it is impounded.

    Now you said another desire is a 67 model with hydraulique gear change. Get the end of the queue. It is a very long queue and the end of it is far away..... : )
    Craig K
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  11. #11
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    There are 67 models available in Europe. You just need a lot of money to buy them!

    I need to sell the 65 before I can even consider that. But if it doesn't sell then of course I will bring it with me.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSnoek View Post
    There are 67 models available in Europe. You just need a lot of money to buy them!

    I need to sell the 65 before I can even consider that. But if it doesn't sell then of course I will bring it with me.
    I would prefer your 65 any day of the week over a 67. Mine gave me 38 miles per gallon cruising at 80 Miles per hour. There is something about the torque of the DW series motor that the short strokes just can't match.
    Cheers Gerry
    Yes being a NATO car the speedometer was graduated with Imperial measurements.

  13. #13
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Maybe you are convincing me more about keeping the '65.... I will think about it. It needs a bit of work done before I can import it e.g. new windscreen because it is cracked. And the engine could use a tune up as it isn't running very well.

    I just booked hotel and flights yesterday to go to Citromobile in Amsterdam in May

  14. #14
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Can anyone tell me the availability of LHS in Australia? Is there a suitable alternative these days?

  15. #15
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Keep it! Bring it! As far as I know it will be the only long-stroke, second front hydraulique in Australia.

    If you drive it regularly and renew the fluid every year or so I doubt you will have problems.

    I run my 1959 DS19 on DOT4+ brake fluid with about 5% castor oil. It works fine.

    The work does not need to be done before you import it, only before you register it.

    Roger

  16. #16
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    RR363 is readily available. Even via eBay at times. Dot 4 with a small addition of castor oil would apparently be an alternative, but I'd leave that for the owners of some red fluid cars to comment on specifically.

    Overall, I wouldn't have thought you'd have any major trouble keeping it on the road. Parts are available from Europe very easily now if you can't find what you need locally.

    Being a 1965 model, there's not going to be a need to get a compliance plate as that system commenced in about 1970. The age of the car will make it fairly easy. It can become quite difficult with later cars, but make sure you know about concessions for returning residents etc.. You might even want to bring back something else as well. There's ample info on this available from Federal and state websites. Start here:
    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...les/index.aspx
    and then the local registration authority. You'll probably be up for GST though.

    If it's a corporate relocation, they may be able to assist in the process and cost. Ask before assuming the answer is no.

    I think you could also fall into the trap of thinking an Australian car might be less rusty. Well it might only be half-rusted, but it could still be as much of a heap under a pretty skin as any European car. So, if you know the true state of your DS19, then I think you are a long way ahead of many would-be buyers here.

  17. #17
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    OK that's good to know. I replaced the LHS about 18 months ago and the car has not been driven much since then so I should do it again. Will get the hydraulic system thoroughly checked out soon too as it's not quite as responsive as it used to be.

    I'm in Europe privately so no corporate relocations unfortunately. I've written to VicRoads asking them all the requirements to import and register this car and also to check I won't have any problems as I'm a New Zealander, not an Australian and I don't have official permanent residency. But I've lived in Australia and owned cars there before so I don't see that this is any different...

    My car has no rust except in the bottom of the doors. The chassis has just been thoroughly checked and it is spotless. I do need to replace the seals around the roof though so will do that at the same time as replacing the windscreen. I'm planning to move to the Netherlands where my car is stored for a few months holiday after my current contract in Italy is finished and then I will have an opportunity to get everything done. And labour costs are so much cheaper here than in Australia.

    It is tempting to have such a rare car in Australia

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Amopallas's Avatar
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    A very nice car,it would be great to have one of these rare beauties in Australia. I hope you find a way of bringing here. I noticed that it has French registration,would I be right in saying that the registration end number 89 is of the department of Bourgogne(Burgundy),of Yonne. Cheers Joe
    1975 Citroen DS 23 Pallas

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger
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    If you get a new windscreen, obviously you'd get a laminated screen. However, if it's fully tinted, you'll have to throw it away to get the car registered in Australia. A tinted band across the top is OK. Check the rules.

  20. #20
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    You're absolutely right. It's initial registration was in Yonne, Bourgogne. It is no longer registered but I still have the original plates It's last registration was actually in Belgium.

    I was planning to get a laminated but clear windscreen. I want it to look completely original.

  21. #21
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    So I've been doing some research on sending my DS back to Melbourne. So far it's been slightly shocking how much more expensive it is than expected. The first problem is that shipping companies won't accept such an old car as roll on roll off which I guess is fair enough. So it needs to be containered.

    The quotes so far excluding insurance are between 4000€ and 6000€ for a 20' container. At least with a container I would be able to load in some spare parts and personal items as well but still. Expensive!

    Anyone else know any contacts for a cheaper option?

  22. #22
    UFO
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    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
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    Well that's a turn about. In 2005 "Buttercup" went to Southampton and back and toured Europe for three months. It is a very early DS19. It went Ro-Ro, so no container was used.

    A DS Cabriolet came to Aus and back to Holland a few years ago as a ro-ro. A myriad of Tractions have been to and from Aus for Tracbar rallies as ro-ro too.

    I think Ro-Ro is also far safer in the long term for your car. Containers fall off ships and unless you pay premium for bottom load your car could ride the high seas on the top of the stack.

    I'd suggest someone is tugging your chain to see if more cash falls out!
    Craig K
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  23. #23
    Member onlyfrogcars's Avatar
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    Have you tried these guys?

    http://www.2wglobal.com/www/wep/

    We used them to ship our '67 ID from NZ to the UK in 2005 - RORO

    Their website doesn't appear to have a limit on the age of the car.

    Cheers
    Kris

  24. #24
    Tadpole DeSnoek's Avatar
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    Hmm really? Well I will keep searching. Currently container would probably be better as she doesn't start too well and I imagine after 6 weeks on a boat she'd be paralysed and I can't see the average wharfie knowing how to get her going. But I am intending to do a bit more work on her before she is shipped so that problem could be taken care of.

    I just got another quote for 1,760Ä now for container shipping which is significantly less! And conveniently their drop off point is about 20km from where my garage is. And the benefit of shipping in a container is I can load it up with spare parts

    Will make sure I have good insurance though as I don't like the sound of containers falling off ships....

  25. #25
    UFO
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    The saddest thing about containers off ships is that once it tumbles it is gone. A wad of cash is no recompense for loss of the item.

    When Buttercup was shipped Bob had specific instructions inside the car about how to start it and let it rise etc. It was on cardboard and stuck in place on the dashboard.
    Craig K
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