Takethatf@^$!&clutchcableandstickitupyaa$$
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Thread: Takethatf@^$!&clutchcableandstickitupyaa$$

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Takethatf@^$!&clutchcableandstickitupyaa$$

    With a car that lives on hydraulics why does the D have a mechanical clutch cable... and a crap one at that... It's broken again. This time on my fiancťe in a rush to get to her gig, I had to give her my brothers express van with a Suzuki bandit strapped down in the back...

    Having researched the hydraulic clutch idea in the other thread I think i'll do it.

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    Looks like an early morning trip to Gricey's to swap it out.

    Although... It may not be the cable... The first time it was the clutch linkage... which mine was an aftermarket you beaut bloody ripper one... I had to reinforced it... THEN the cable snapped...

    I guess the cable was not designed as a daily driving part...

    To tired, it's dark and i'm feeling to delicate to look what the cause is at the moment.

    I've become quiet proficient at driving without the clutch, so the trip to Griceys should be fun

    thanks for listening.

    Harley

  2. #2
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Diagnose the fault initially.

    If it is the cable...have a clutch cable made, proficiently, by those who are specialists, install it corrrectly, use a clutch linkage rod which is good and your current trouble is unlikely to reoccur. Pay attention to the area which is close to the exhaust and fit a proper heatproof sleeve. Earls make a good one.
    Advise the cable maker that the cable is permanently bent in an arc, subjected to cycles of extreme heat as well as dynamic stress.

    Too many times now I have witnessed poorly contructed cables from unsuitable materials, installed carelessly,incorrectly adjusted and unmaintained. When was the last time the condition of the cable was carefully eyeballed?

    If the cable broke, I respectfully suggest that the probability of the failure of the cable in an immediate fashion is small.
    Usually a strand will fail, then another and so on until the complete failure of the cable.
    Typically a cable strand will fail at the ends, from either fatigue or a weakening of the parent cable material if it has been brazed.

    If a nipple failed or a crimp failed, then whomever made the cable did less than efficient job.
    Replacement cables often have a thinner outer sleeve with an inner sleeve which is not designed to be subjected to heat or a permanent bend.

    I make no claim the factory isn't partly to blame.
    In a LHD version the conditions are far more favourable.
    The RHD method is an afterthought.
    There is nothing inherently wrong with a cable operated clutch.

    Most owners carry a spare cable in the inner cantrail of the car.
    I recall some years ago being advised of this, Craig Keller being the first.
    I changed a cable which had a broken strand or two not long after buying the car.
    It was made by a local company (Lance Roper of Cablemate in Derwent Park, Hobart) from the remains of an original sample.
    At the time, I had two cables made, the spare resided in the cantrail.
    The car was then converted to BVH. The spare cable is now in the hands of a fellow frogger.
    Can't recall the recipient of the Cablemate cable, but I bet if it had failed, then I would be aware.

    Hope this information helps to ease the pain.
    Gricy prefers his nickname without an "e", ask him.
    Last edited by richo; 17th March 2012 at 10:59 PM. Reason: typos

  3. #3
    UFO
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    From what I have heard if you are breaking clutch cables it may be that the alignment of the path is not good and/or parts are rubbing. Fortunately you can have the cable remade if all the pieces are still in existence.
    Craig K
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    Thanks for the sound advise Richo.

    The cable can't be more than 12months old, sourced from Nick at Cars of France, I opted for the afermarket reproduction as the cost of an OEM is high!

    When the clutch cable broke after I reinforced the linkage I learn't my lesson about what UFO suggested with rubbing parts. I had the pivoting saddle of the linkage clamped to tight which meant it was not moving freely, therefore it was constantly bending the cable at that end to mack up for the miss alignment, think of snapping wire by bending it back and forth, back and forth...

    I also have a heat shield hose covering the cable where it passes the exhaust.

    Hopefully Gricey can supply a cable otherwise i'll have to get another of Nick on Monday.

    Cheers,

    Harley

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    UFO
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    When I last replaced the clutch cable on the D I had two remade and the second is the one that I carry in the cant rail (gees you've got a good memory Richo!) and this was sage advice given to me by old DS hands when I bought mine.

    Admittedly my D does not get everyday use but when I last checked the cable a few months ago it was in perfect condition at both ends. My car also has one of the pivots with a bearing in it, after an original type snapped at the end one day many years ago.
    Craig K
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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Are you sure it is the cable and not the pivot on the bellhousing?

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    Clearly, Pallas versions never break cables as there is nowhere to put them in the roof!

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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    Are you sure it is the cable and not the pivot on the bellhousing?
    Wally, the RHD version of the cable is a nasty permanent bend on a short length. The whole thing is an after thought, nothing like the LHD version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Clearly, Pallas versions never break cables as there is nowhere to put them in the roof!
    Ahh David, some of us are yet to reach the lofty heights of Pallas ownership.
    We peons prefer the inner cantrail for all manner of storage, I imagine the Pallas owner to have a specific velvet lined suitcase of sorts in the boot.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    My car also has one of the pivots with a bearing in it, after an original type snapped at the end one day many years ago.
    My reproduction doesn't have a bearing at either end, but it sure could do with one!
    Here are some pics of the culprit:

    As you can see the hook that the rod attaches to has failed...

    And here is one showing the reinforcements i have added to this item...

    Firstly the welded pin that keeps the to opposing arms broke it's weld...
    Then after the Cable broke a couple of weeks later I noticed excessive wear on the main pivot, so I had a simple steel bush machined up and i welded it on adding the nylock bolt also.

    The cable still looks good at the business end at least.

    Shane, I saw your thread about fitting the hydraulic clutch to your CX, i'm going to start asking you about retro fitting one to a DS soon

    Cheers

    Harley

  11. #11
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    At least it is the pivot not the cable this time round.
    Gricy ought to have one lying about.

    There is some serious work asked of that pivot "S" piece.
    Denton Christie used to market an expensive replacement with needle rollers in the pivots, about $220 from memory.
    Having never bought one I can't comment on their longevity or effectiveness.

  12. #12
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    I'll just weld it up, throw it back on then shoot out to Kyneton for lunch with me mate

    CHeers

    Harley

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pastinha View Post

    Shane, I saw your thread about fitting the hydraulic clutch to your CX, i'm going to start asking you about retro fitting one to a DS soon

    Cheers

    Harley
    The master cylinders are easily found. The slaves (that do all the hydraulic trickery) are hens teeth. The easiest way to find one would be to find a CX prestige with a manual gearbox and pull it's slave cylinder.

    The throw is about 1", and it's finger light when the hydraulics are powered, yet extremely heavy when there is no pressure (at least it still works though!). In the CX you feel like you need to "point" your foot in a weird fashion to depress the clutch. This wouldn't be a problem in the DS though

    The SM has a standard master/slave setup that uses LHM apparently if you can't find the CX setup.

    seeya,
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  14. #14
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    Welded and ready to install:


    HArley

  15. #15
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    Win,

    Back on the road.

    Off to Kyneton i go!

    Shane, with your knowledge would you think that adapting the CX prestige slave cylinder to the DS would be a difficult task? I will need to study yours and Teds threads a little more.
    Does the Slave pull pull or push? Assuming I would need to remove the cast arm from the arrangement...

    Harley
    Last edited by Harley; 18th March 2012 at 12:11 PM.
    Armidillo likes this.

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    It would be easy enough to obtain a clutch slave cylinder for a DS, as all BVH cars had one. The question for me is whether a master cylinder from a CX or an SM would be easier to obtain and which would be easier to fit.

    Roger

    PS richo, blow the velvet-lined case, I just use an old chaff bag.

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    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Ahh David, some of us are yet to reach the lofty heights of Pallas ownership.
    We peons prefer the inner cantrail for all manner of storage, I imagine the Pallas owner to have a specific velvet lined suitcase of sorts in the boot.
    What Richo really meant to say was...

    Some of us took advice of long time DS owners and repairers and bought D Specials or similar in the first place and have remained satisfied with the outcome!
    Craig K
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    What Richo really meant to say was...

    Some of us took advice of long time DS owners and repairers and bought D Specials or similar in the first place and have remained satisfied with the outcome!
    I drove a gorgeous BVH DS21 a couple of weeks ago. Deeply in love.

    Having a C-matic I'm in the BVH camp regarding clutch cables. Nothing much goes wrong with C-matics
    JohnW

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    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    It would be easy enough to obtain a clutch slave cylinder for a DS, as all BVH cars had one. The question for me is whether a master cylinder from a CX or an SM would be easier to obtain and which would be easier to fit.

    Roger

    PS richo, blow the velvet-lined case, I just use an old chaff bag.
    Yeah mate, you can fit a lot more in an old chaff bag.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Yeah mate, you can fit a lot more in an old chaff bag.
    Chaff bags were not strictly standard Pallas equipment though! I'm sure that will be in Reynolds' book somewhere.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    What Richo really meant to say was...

    Some of us took advice of long time DS owners and repairers and bought D Specials or similar in the first place and have remained satisfied with the outcome!
    Just a whiff of reverse snobbery there Craig

    Now, where the heck am I going to store my spare clutch cable? Any suggestions?
    Michael
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Chaff bags were not strictly standard Pallas equipment though! I'm sure that will be in Reynolds' book somewhere.
    My CX Pallas has a 1943 ammo box full of treasures in the boot. Works better than the chaff bag, but it is a newer car of course.

    Like the wind-up windows in the 4CV Renaults, perhaps the chaff bag was an "export only" fitting - John Reynolds might have missed a detail like that. Not that he missed many details........

    I really lust after a BVH car. It's probably unhealthy.

    If Shane had a D Special, he would presumably fit a powered hydraulic clutch and post all those wonderful photos and descriptions.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  23. #23
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    Just a whiff of reverse snobbery there Craig
    Guilty as charged your honour!

    One day have a look under the bonnet of Geoff G's DS23ie Pallas BVH with aircon. You will shudder! However it is a superb car to drive.
    Craig K
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Guilty as charged your honour!

    One day have a look under the bonnet of Geoff G's DS23ie Pallas BVH with aircon. You will shudder! However it is a superb car to drive.
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    Just a whiff of reverse snobbery there Craig

    Now, where the heck am I going to store my spare clutch cable? Any suggestions?
    Cut it up and use it to make a safety catch for the bonnet. That will guarantee that your bonnet will never fly open. If you ever need it, you can just uninstall it from the safety catch position, return it to it's previous form and use it.

    /Ducks

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