Rear window repair sections for Safari
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  1. #1
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    Default Rear window repair sections for Safari

    Sorry to hog the Citroen forum at the moment, but lots of questions on my ID21F Safari restoration now that the panel beater has begun work on the most difficult rust areas.

    He popped the rear windows this morning, and advises that his metal bending machine is not capable of getting that very small 5mm crease - see bottom right hand corner of pic attached - he has also marked in pen what the cross section of that panel looks like.

    His preference is to replace the entire window panel sections - inner panel and outer panel.

    From what I can gather, reproduction repair panels only come in smaller straight sections, not the entire window surround panel (from roof to guard) as would have been welded on in the factory.

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    Any suggestions about what to do here? Don't suppose anyone happens to have a Safari wreck with good panels that I could buy? (My panelbeater is happy to cut them out if we can find a wreck in Victoria somewhere)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rear window repair sections for Safari-img_0502.jpg  

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgbiteme View Post
    Sorry to hog the Citroen forum at the moment, but lots of questions on my ID21F Safari restoration now that the panel beater has begun work on the most difficult rust areas.

    He popped the rear windows this morning, and advises that his metal bending machine is not capable of getting that very small 5mm crease - see bottom right hand corner of pic attached - he has also marked in pen what the cross section of that panel looks like.

    His preference is to replace the entire window panel sections - inner panel and outer panel.

    From what I can gather, reproduction repair panels only come in smaller straight sections, not the entire window surround panel (from roof to guard) as would have been welded on in the factory.

    Any suggestions about what to do here? Don't suppose anyone happens to have a Safari wreck with good panels that I could buy? (My panelbeater is happy to cut them out if we can find a wreck in Victoria somewhere)
    If all else fails I can put you in contact with someone who has the tools, equipment and skills to make the replacement sections.

    Wheter he is prepared to ... well you would need to contact him yourself.

  3. #3
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    You'd probably want to roll it. Another way, a bit crude but it would work is to cut out a template to make the step and then hammer it down using a suitable bar. Essentially, you are making your own single use press tool die, if you see what I mean. You may need to make up sections and weld them together. It will probably get you out of trouble, but it won't be as neat as a rolled or pressed panel.
    Last edited by David S; 2nd March 2012 at 07:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    You'd probably want to roll it. Another way, a bit crude but it would work is to cut out a template to make the step and then hammer it down using a suitable bar. Essentially, you are making your own single use press tool die, if you see what I mean. You may need to make up sections and weld them together. It will probably get you out of trouble, but it won't be as neat as a rolled or pressed panel.
    Bend two right angle section half the length of the frame perimeter

    Use a power shrinking hammer to shrink one side of the angle and form the corners.

    Join the two angles at centre top and bottom.

    Precision work but you could use the windscreen and templates to get an accurate shape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Bend two right angle section half the length of the frame perimeter

    Use a power shrinking hammer to shrink one side of the angle and form the corners.

    Join the two angles at centre top and bottom.

    Precision work but you could use the windscreen and templates to get an accurate shape.
    I would have thought that anyone with a power shrinking hammer wouldn't need this advice.
    roger

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    CitAndre can get those brand new.
    Might be worth flinging an email at him.

    On another note, we might be able to cut some good used off of a California car and send them down to you. There is a wagon about to be cut up right now.

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    I just sent your picture to the guys that are going to cut up that wagon. The only parts on the car that are any good are the parts you need. So they are going to cut very carefully with a vision towards salvaging the parts.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    I would have thought that anyone with a power shrinking hammer wouldn't need this advice.
    roger
    Fair comment.

    But the previous post discussed fabrication methods. So my post was to throw in my 3 cents.

    Clearly if the OP (or his panel beater) had the tools the post wouldn't have happened.

    As it turns out I've given the OP a suggestion as to a possible lead to get the work done.

    I gotta say members of the Cit forum can be very picky!

    Sorry I bothered to intrude into the purist's forum

  9. #9
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    Default rear side window frames

    I attach a picture of our Safari for your perusal. Window frames can be a bit tricky to repair as they sit in a hollow frame, but any competent automotive welder can tackle this. My advice is that you first need to have a good poke around the following areas:
    a)The bottow of the window frame inside the wheelarch. This section will also hold the rain gutter, which in turn hold the horizontal rubber. The gutter is simply spotwelded metal on metal, but this area takes the full brunt of the road spray/muck. Changes are that you may need to replace the gutter.
    b) The little ledge inside the wheelarch. Again, this forms part of the same hollow window frame. Is all well here? Usually it is disguished by a layer of mud etc, so best to scrape clean and have a good old poke. You should have sound metal here.
    c) The bottom of the window frame on the inside of the car. All sound metal here?
    e) At the rear door opening, the lower section, which hold the door seal. You may find that the metal frame has corroded behind the rubber. Has the rust penetrated into that lower hollow section?
    If you have rust in a and/or b and it has penetrated the metal, your best bet is to buy a repair set (or if both sides need repairing, L+R). These sets include an inside/outside section and that little gutter which holds the rubber. Most Dutch parts merchant hold these in stock and they'll set you back about EUR 90 per set plus shipping (a snip in Oz dollars). I am sure that your Staines contact can source them as well.

    Looking closely at your rear door frame, I just wonder what made him remove the whole frame? The section, which is visible looks pretty, sound metal. Normally these frames corrode the last 4/5 inches... but that's all water under the bridge now.

    After you've read this, time for a cuppa!

    Trust this helps,

    Cheers,

    Bernard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rear window repair sections for Safari-p1030335.jpg  

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    Wow ! I am impressed......love the matching grey rose axle stands..a must have accessory for every aspiring D owner.

    What a superb restoration that will be .

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Here are the pics of the wagon that got cut up the other day.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rear window repair sections for Safari-dsc_0123%5B1%5D.jpg   Rear window repair sections for Safari-dsc_0124%5B1%5D.jpg   Rear window repair sections for Safari-dsc_0125%5B1%5D.jpg   Rear window repair sections for Safari-dsc_0126%5B1%5D.jpg   Rear window repair sections for Safari-dsc_0127%5B1%5D.jpg   Rear window repair sections for Safari-dsc_0130%5B1%5D.jpg  


  12. #12
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    Default 3 cents worth

    Robmac. I'm very pleased that you put your 3 cents worth in. Having a late Safari with this very problem, I'm watching this sight with particular interest. As I don't have a great knowledge of panelbeating "tools", any discussion is appreciated. I have a Safari wreck in QLD (under cover) and now I'm curious what shape those window frames are in. The "Area 52" blokes are willing to help us over here which I'm sure we all appreciate. I saved this Victorian 23' 5 speed Safari from the crusher. It is taking up valuable undercover area here in Castlemaine. The decision on its fate will have to be made in the coming months so ----- yes, I continue to watch this site with interest. Thanks again Robmac! From Michael

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    Default Thanks all

    Thanks to everyone who provided such detailed and useful comments on my question.

    My panel beater has read everything in this thread and decided that he's going to have a go at repairing my car. After he's finished, I'll post some more photos to show everyone the result.

    Daffyduck, from looking at the photos you sent, there are some sections that would need to be cut out and new sections fabricated, so at this stage I won't take you up on your kind offer to help ship them to Australia. I'm sure someone else could use those sections though.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    These are "our" cars. My job is to try and help. Especially when it comes to ID21F.

    Had a call today for a structural section on on SM FI. My god. I know a fairly smart kid/young man who has been walking around with a reciprocating saw to keep his mother happy.

    What are the odds that the kid was walking up to the wagon wreck with the saw at the same time I saw this thread?

    BTW, the "kid" is 24 now, and he is building a 59 ID19/1971 ID19. And his project looks really good. I have known this kid since he was born, and he will be my first employee when I can hire one. What a blessing.

  15. #15
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    I have used a hand held "plier "like thingy called a "jodler " (made in Sweden I think )

    to make a siimilar bend you are contemplating for the window lip

    not mine , I was fortunate to be able to borrow it at the time


    now you have a new a new scrabble word!!



    cheers

  16. #16
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    Default break repairs

    I am sure that this site is familiar to quite a few readers, but it is always interested to take another look at how these guys in Lausanne, on lake Geneva, tackle their ID/DS restorations projects.

    www.citrothello.net

    The site is in French, but quite easy to follow. Once you open the site, click on restauration on the left column. Once you get to the restauration page, scroll down to the two Breaks, but in particular that first model break. During its 16 year production run, there have been only minor changes to the rear end of this model. Once you're in the Break ID pages, click on the little bar 'restauration break ID15' and scroll down to about page 7 or 8. It will give you a pretty good idea of how that rear side window has been fabricated and how to repair. You will also note on one of the pictures the (galvanised) pre-fabricated repair sections, so you have a better idea what they're like and whether you may wish to fabricated your own. In any event, some of the curvy bits you'll have to make yourself. Very therapeutic...

    The good news is that both your Breaks are probably in a better condition!

    Cheers,

    Bernard

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