Seen today in the carpark.....
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Default Seen today in the carpark.....

    Saw this beauty pull into the shopping centre carpark this arvo....owner kindly let me take a couple of pics and told a little bit of history - only 24 built in RHD for Aust. 9 seater, has a special rego category and used to live in a convent.........bet at least one Frogger knows more and what she is ?

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Seen today in the carpark.....-sp_a0006.jpg   Seen today in the carpark.....-sp_a0007.jpg   Seen today in the carpark.....-sp_a0008.jpg   Seen today in the carpark.....-sp_a0009.jpg  
    I might act like an idiot, and I might look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: I really AM an idiot!

  2. #2
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    G'day,
    is the owner a AF'er? If not, why not?
    regards,
    Les W.


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  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I didn't realise they sold big six's as family 9's! What a remarkable old car
    'Cit' homepage:
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    That is not a Big 6 Shane. However there were a few 15/6 familiales produced, but all from the Paris factory. One Aussie took a Slough Family nine and converted it to a six. His name was Ian Johnston and was a CCCV member in the early days. He also painted it bright orange. This car ended its life rusting away at Ilya Kostetskis residence in Eltham. It is not a hard conversion. The front suspension mounting bolts have to be lengthened and the side mounts for the engine have to be changed to the six style. The rear engine mount is dispensed with. Then it is just a matter of bolting in the mechanical components peculiar to the six and fitting the six style front panels. It is also wise to fit the rear 12 inch drums from a six to upgrade the brakes. In the attached pic you can easily see the difference in the front panels.
    Cheers Gerry
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Seen today in the carpark.....-15sixf.jpg  
    Last edited by gerrypro; 22nd February 2012 at 06:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    How can you tell it's not a 6. Am I missing something really obvious

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  6. #6
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    How can you tell it's not a 6. Am I missing something really obvious

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Look closer at the grille.

    I would've loved to have seen how the owner

    a) got that car in the carpark; and
    b) how they're going to get it out of there

    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  7. #7
    the famous 18E pug206gti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    That is not a Big 6 Shane. However there were a few 15/6 familiales produced, but all from the Paris factory. One Aussie took a Slough Family nine and converted it to a six. His name was Ian Johnston and was a CCCV member in the early days. He also painted it bright orange. This car ended its life rusting away at Ilya Kostetskis residence in Eltham. It is not a hard conversion. The front suspension mounting bolts have to be lengthened and the side mounts for the engine have to be changed to the six style. The rear engine mount is dispensed with. Then it is just a matter of bolting in the mechanical components peculiar to the six and fitting the six style front panels. It is also wise to fit the rear 12 inch drums from a six to upgrade the brakes. In the attached pic you can easily see the difference in the front panels.
    Cheers Gerry
    G'day,
    you lost me at
    Big 6 Shane
    The question is, can i do this to the 18E?
    regards,
    Les W.


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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The four cylinder normale front guards are more rounded at the front whereas the six front guards slope at a fairly consistent angle. The bonnet extension panels are much more defined and protrude forward of the front guard. The later examples of these panels have small doors in them for extra ventilation of the engine compartment. The bonnet is much longer.
    I have attached a pic of a 156G from 1939 without the doors in the extension panels and a pic of a late model 11B Normale which is the same at the front as the Family nine. Have a close look at the subtle differences. BTW the grilles of the late model sixes are almost identical to the normale grille with the exception of chrome and an extra bracket to attach to the six radiator. The Normale in this pic would normally have a painted grille and the six G was the only Six ( 15/6 G--- a very rare car) to have a painted grille
    Cheers Gerry
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Seen today in the carpark.....-15_002a.jpg   Seen today in the carpark.....-untitled.jpg  
    Last edited by gerrypro; 22nd February 2012 at 06:50 PM.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger
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    If it was one of the batch of 24 from 1955, then it's a Big 15 based car, like the others unless it's had a Six conversion. The grilles are the same for Big 15 and Big 6 as far as I am aware, only the crank handle hole cover being different. The giveaway is the shorter bonnet and generally dumpier look at the front, but it's not especially obvious unless you look at it side on.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug206gti View Post
    G'day,
    is the owner a AF'er? If not, why not?
    He is a very nice bloke, and was happy to talk about the car to myself and the two other 'Dads Army' members who suddenly appeared from the butcher's shop area. I didn't get his name (if your're reading this, cheers mate) but asked if he was a Frogger. Said he did browse sometimes and would look for my pics,. I did say that this is a great forum and it would be good if he joined in.......Did say that he showed the car in Brisbane and one an award with it, but it didn't register when that was. Don't really know how to take photos with the phone (must have fluked it) and was messing around and didn't want to hold him up.
    I might act like an idiot, and I might look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: I really AM an idiot!

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    If it was one of the batch of 24 from 1955, then it's a Big 15 based car, like the others unless it's had a Six conversion. The grilles are the same for Big 15 and Big 6 as far as I am aware, only the crank handle hole cover being different. The giveaway is the shorter bonnet and generally dumpier look at the front, but it's not especially obvious unless you look at it side on.
    Grilles for the later cars are identical between the Slough versions of Big 15 and Big six with the exception of the bracket that supports the Big 6 grille above the radiator. The crank holes are the same. The earlier G version of the 6 had a different gearbox and although a three shaft design like the 6D the crank handle input was on the central shaft not the top shaft. This was because the engine rotated the other way hence 'G' for gauche ( left ). These cars had grilles with a different crank handle opening. However the Normales of the same era also had the grille with the smaller crank hole. After the war the grille of the Big six was altered to allow raising of the crank onto the top shaft. Normales from Paris also got this grille straight away whe reintroduced to production and so eventually did the Big 15 when recommenced at Slough in 1952. Here is an excerpt from an email from Robin Dyke that states that the total was 25 including one Commercial. He states clearly the relevant chassis number range. None were sixes.

    In 1955 just before they closed down,
    Slough had an order for 25 stretched cars for Australia.
    As I understand it their chassis serial numbers were 9-557001 to 9-557025.
    24 of these were what the French would call a Familiale,
    and we would call a Family Fifteen,
    that is 9 seats, 6 side windows and a big boot.
    Just 1 (9-557015) was what the French would call a Commerciale,
    that is 9 seats, 6 side windows and a hatch back.
    (There was a joke that all 25 had been ordered by an undertaker).
    I think the body shells were fully assembled in Paris,
    then shipped to Slough for finishing.
    (I have heard that the welding is typical of Paris rather than Slough).

    Cheers Gerry

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger
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    Would this example be the one used as a wedding car in Sydney some years ago? It was in those colours as I recall. Or is it a very recently restored example? I heard of one being restored in Qld last year.
    The Commerciale is being restored.

  13. #13
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    Default Familale

    jeez. It is a small world, and I am glad to see that this car has ended up in good hands.

    I hired it, and to married with it.

    Shall put some pics up tomorrow.

    It was 9 years ago, and a blistering hot Sydney day. The old Fam ran beautifully.

    A beautiful car, and the owners did champagne and really went all out . It was sensational. The car was burgundy. They had other cars there too, and they were Tractions.

    I took the Familale aS it was a relatively small affair, but we have heaps of pics from the great day.

    Chris Mortimer

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    David, can you tell something about the Commerciale? I would like to know if it is the one that I found years ago abandoned in the bush at Moorooduc, Victoria.
    The one I saw was original black and had dark red interior. It had the lower link arms sawn through as we salvaged the Brake drums and drive shafts. It was resting on its link arms in a puddle so this is the only way we could save those bits.
    If it is not the same car then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that there were two made.
    Cheers Gerry

  15. #15
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    Default family nine photographs

    This car was on show at the "All French Day" last July.
    The owner & his family had only recently arrived on the Gold Coast from down south (Sydney I think) and the car had been purchased in Sydney.
    I am "almost" sure it is one of the Tractions that were being used in a wedding hire business in Sydney.
    The car won "Best Traction" on the day and most certainly deserved it.(no guesses as to who had the privilege of judging the tractions).

    Happy Tractioning,
    Brian W

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Where are all the other family 9s ?

    A dull green one was on ebay about 2 years ago
    In the book "Eighty Years of Citroen in the UK" there is an old photo of a black one with Victorian plates GKN991.
    The commerciale is being restored near Sydney......
    There is another in inner city sydney and 3 others in the CCOCA list.
    Anyone know of any others

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Traction Familale

    Jackel and others,

    When we went to view the fleet, there were others that he had and they were also VERY nice.

    There would have been at least 2 others in short wheel base, and the burgundy Fam.

    We had the car loaded, and as I said it was a blisteringly hot day, and my beautiful 2CV was also commissioned for the day.

    I forgot to bring the pics to work today, but shall try to again tomorrow.

    Riding in that car was one of the most memorable Citroen moments I have had.

    Hopefully the next will be a visit to the Conservertoire.

    Chris

  18. #18
    Tadpole
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    Default Family 9

    Hi,

    I am the lucky custodian of the car photographed yesterday ( hello, and thanks for sharing her with the forum).

    Just to answer some of the questions raised, the car was purchased in a partially restored state from a guy in Sydney who used it, along with a Lt 15 and a Big 6 as wedding cars. I have since done a lot of work under the bonnet and interior.

    The car indeed was one of the special order of 24 manufactured in 1955 for the Aust. market. It is based on the Big 15 e.g. 4 cylinder engine ( to the best of my knowledge the Familale was only available as a 4 ).
    It has full rego and is used daily thanks to an Id 19 conversion, due to the 9 seat capacity it had to be registered as a mini bus, go figure?

    Over the years I have had several Citroens, 2cv's and 2 Lt15's but this one gets the most attention.


    Cheers.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dayofthejackal View Post
    A dull green one was on ebay about 2 years ago
    In the book "Eighty Years of Citroen in the UK" there is an old photo of a black one with Victorian plates GKN991.
    The commerciale is being restored near Sydney......
    There is another in inner city sydney and 3 others in the CCOCA list.
    Anyone know of any others
    Have a look at the thread on wedding cars. Rex Gerkovich's car is featured there.
    Cheers Gerry

  20. #20
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    Default Familale

    Tadpole, here some more pics of the car 9 years ago, the day we hired it for our wedding.

    I superb car, and you are very fortunate and deserving caretaker!!

    Chris Mortimer
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Seen today in the carpark.....-img002.jpg   Seen today in the carpark.....-img003.jpg  

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    Default Family 9

    Hi,

    Thanks for posting pic's, great to see the car in it's full wedding glory. I can confirm with out any doubt that it is the same car as I still have the original number plates. The interior of the car was and still is for the best part all original, I only had the headliner and seats reconitioned. So she looks even better than she did then.

    Cheers.

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