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Thread: CX Tyres

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Default CX Tyres

    I need some new tyres for the Red Rocket (CX).

    It it gets loaded to the gunnals with sea kayaks and camping gear at times, and is not shy about going down 4wd tracks.

    So what are the reccommendations?

    My experience so far has been:

    Kuhmo- side walls couldn't handle the weight at the front.
    XM1s- Ok but a bit of side wall flex + seemed to wear quick. Could have be a result of previous owner running at low pressure. Expensive now.
    TRX- Great, but a bit noisy. Not cost effective now.
    MXTE- Great wear, quite and comfortable but no longer available in the 185/80

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    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Standard 14" wheels ??

    You'll need to find what is available these days. I imagine there is little choice in tire sizes unless you go upto 16".

    I've found 215/55 16" rubber transforms the way a CX handles. The best combination I found with standard 6" wide 14" wheels, was 215/65 14" toyo's under it's nose, and 185/195 Michelins under it's tail. They are very "tail happy" and speed on loose gravel. Every other surface was fine.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Yes, lack of tyre range at 14inches is frustating.

    I have managed to track down 175/80 MXTEs - given that 185's and 195's give tail happiness, I wonder if the 175's might be a bit better at cutting through loose gravel and water?

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    Yes, lack of tyre range at 14inches is frustating.

    I have managed to track down 175/80 MXTEs - given that 185's and 195's give tail happiness, I wonder if the 175's might be a bit better at cutting through loose gravel and water?
    I"ve got Bob Jane standards at the front and old full profile Michelin XZX at the back. Haven't tried it on gravel though..... Bit agricultural perhaps but it works for me.
    JohnW

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    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    New tyre time again!

    Have experimented with cheapy 195/75 at the front, but need to run very high pressures to avoid undue side wall flex when fully loaded.

    Has any one tried running a commercial tyre, say a 850kg rating rather than the original 650?

    Guess the other option is to go with the original MXVs or TRXes. With the dollar at 69p, they are very quickly moving from outlandishly expensive to just expensive. I do like the look of the larger metric rims...

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I would go with 195/70 Michelin XM2. The XM1s now on the beast have been brilliant, lasted longer than any other tyre I have used on the CX. That and brilliant handling as well. The XM2s are supposed to be even better
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    My experiance with TRX's (on fuegos ) is they are the worst tyres I've ever driven on .... ever .... I wouldn't pay money full stop for a TRX let alone the insane $$$ there worth

    seeya,
    Shane L..
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    New tyre time again!

    Have experimented with cheapy 195/75 at the front, but need to run very high pressures to avoid undue side wall flex when fully loaded.

    Has any one tried running a commercial tyre, say a 850kg rating rather than the original 650?
    What, something like this....
    http://www.tyreplus.com.au/?Products...leID=3&class=0

    Jo

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Yup - that's exactly what I am thinking...

    Other than a slightly lumpier ride, what's the catch?

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

  10. #10
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    My experiance with TRX's (on fuegos ) is they are the worst tyres I've ever driven on .... ever .... I wouldn't pay money full stop for a TRX let alone the insane $$$ there worth

    seeya,
    Shane L..
    I drove with TRX tyres on CXs in both the UK and Australia. I found them the best tyres for handling on the CX. The only other tyres I used on CXs were XVS (on the CX2400 metal rims before converting to TRX rims).

    Mind you, I have never driven a Fuego, so I don't know how bad they are.


    John

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    New tyre time again!

    Have experimented with cheapy 195/75 at the front, but need to run very high pressures to avoid undue side wall flex when fully loaded.

    Has any one tried running a commercial tyre, say a 850kg rating rather than the original 650?

    Guess the other option is to go with the original MXVs or TRXes. With the dollar at 69p, they are very quickly moving from outlandishly expensive to just expensive. I do like the look of the larger metric rims...
    I am amazed that the front tyres have undue tyre flex when fully loaded. The engine and transmission will weigh the same regardless of load. Most of the load is taken by the back tyres. If you put 6 bags of cement in the boot, ALL of the loaded weight is taken by the back tyres (and suspension). The beauty with a CX and other central system hydraulic Citroens is that since the rear brakes are pressured by the rear suspension spheres, the heavier the load, the greater the ratio of front/rear braking becomes biased to the rear.

    If you have a full length roof rack and load it to the hilt, there will be some more load on the front, but most is taken by the rear as the top of the windscreen is 1/3 of the way from the front of the car. Heavy front driver and passenger are marginal considerations. Surely there is a limit to the size of person that can bend enough to enter the CX at normal suspension ride height.

    I think that if you run very high tyre pressures, not only will ride comfort be diminished, but handling will also. All my CXs were in the days when the Michelin tyres developed for them were still in production. With all of my Citroens, the front tyres have always looked a bit more squashed than the rear because of the higher weight on the front suspension, but I figured that the engineers at Citroen probably noticed that as would their owner (Michelin) and the recommended tyres and pressures are pretty close to optimal. I found that the tyre/pressure table in the Haynes manual to be very good and rarely deviated from them, only occasionally dropping the rear pressures by a pound or two to improve ride. The rear of the CX dictates the comfort of the ride, both suspension pressures and tyre pressures.

    Having spun a CX once in the wet with good tyres (Michelin XVS), I would always be wary of "cheap" tyres. The difference in price between cheap tyres and good tyres is often less than the insurance excess (or indeed funeral expenses if its a bad accident).

    John

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    Yup - that's exactly what I am thinking...

    Other than a slightly lumpier ride, what's the catch?
    Not the best grip?? I wouldn't know, but at that price its probably worth finding out for yourself.

    Seems by your description your car is more of a mule than a stallion, so maybe the trade off will not be an issue.
    I reckon you'd get 100k km+ out of them too!!

    Having spun a CX once in the wet with good tyres (Michelin XVS), I would always be wary of "cheap" tyres. The difference in price between cheap tyres and good tyres is often less than the insurance excess (or indeed funeral expenses if its a bad accident).
    Not a bad bit of advice, although i'd point out that its not about the price/quality of the tyre, its about the tyre grip ballance and suspension tuning bias between the front and the back that really decides if you will spin.

    Put light truck tyres up front and michi PS3 up the rear and I will guarantee you wont be able to shift that ass without using the handbrake.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Not the best grip?? I wouldn't know, but at that price its probably worth finding out for yourself.

    Seems by your description your car is more of a mule than a stallion, so maybe the trade off will not be an issue.
    I reckon you'd get 100k km+ out of them too!!



    Not a bad bit of advice, although i'd point out that its not about the price/quality of the tyre, its about the tyre grip ballance and suspension tuning bias between the front and the back that really decides if you will spin.

    Put light truck tyres up front and michi PS3 up the rear and I will guarantee you wont be able to shift that ass without using the handbrake.

    Jo
    Funny-----the CX handbrake works on the front wheels!!!!!!!!!! No hand brake turns with this beastie!
    Cheers Gerry

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Funny-----the CX handbrake works on the front wheels!!!!!!!!!! No hand brake turns with this beastie!
    In reverse???

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I am amazed that the front tyres have undue tyre flex when fully loaded. The engine and transmission will weigh the same regardless of load. Most of the load is taken by the back tyres. If you put 6 bags of cement in the boot, ALL of the loaded weight is taken by the back tyres (and suspension). The beauty with a CX and other central system hydraulic Citroens is that since the rear brakes are pressured by the rear suspension spheres, the heavier the load, the greater the ratio of front/rear braking becomes biased to the rear.

    If you have a full length roof rack and load it to the hilt, there will be some more load on the front, but most is taken by the rear as the top of the windscreen is 1/3 of the way from the front of the car. Heavy front driver and passenger are marginal considerations. Surely there is a limit to the size of person that can bend enough to enter the CX at normal suspension ride height.

    I think that if you run very high tyre pressures, not only will ride comfort be diminished, but handling will also. All my CXs were in the days when the Michelin tyres developed for them were still in production. With all of my Citroens, the front tyres have always looked a bit more squashed than the rear because of the higher weight on the front suspension, but I figured that the engineers at Citroen probably noticed that as would their owner (Michelin) and the recommended tyres and pressures are pretty close to optimal. I found that the tyre/pressure table in the Haynes manual to be very good and rarely deviated from them, only occasionally dropping the rear pressures by a pound or two to improve ride. The rear of the CX dictates the comfort of the ride, both suspension pressures and tyre pressures.

    Having spun a CX once in the wet with good tyres (Michelin XVS), I would always be wary of "cheap" tyres. The difference in price between cheap tyres and good tyres is often less than the insurance excess (or indeed funeral expenses if its a bad accident).

    John
    Which reminds me to ask your opinion about ride and handling aspects of running the specified size tyres, i.e. smaller ones at the back? Not done without an engineering reason I presume.
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Which reminds me to ask your opinion about ride and handling aspects of running the specified size tyres, i.e. smaller ones at the back? Not done without an engineering reason I presume.
    I would think from an engineering point of view, it accepts the fact that the rear tyres are basically there to keep the bum off the ground to stop the exhaust from rubbing on the road. From a practical point of view, having all the tyres the same size allows for rotation of tyres from front to rear. Given that the front tyres take 80% of the punishment and mainly on the outer edges, it makes sense to move them to the rear once they start to squeal on corners. The rear tyres are happy with good tread in the centre, the fronts really need good tread on the edges (as well as the centres that wear slower).

    The short answer to you question is I haven't a clue why Citroen chose to have smaller (narrower) tyres on the rear of the CX.

    John

    I have no idea why the CX spun. I had been driving for 8 hours through the night. Stopped at Ballina for breaky. It had only been raining for about 1/2 an hour (roads may have been a bit greasy). I went through an S bend too fast. The arse let go. I was too slow to correct. I saw the railings of the bridge that we went over travelling backwards (and had a bad flashback to going over a bridge upside down in a Cortina many years earlier). The CX completed the spin (360 degrees) and ambled up the road as though nothing happened. I pulled over expecting to see a flat rear tyre, but all tyres looked OK. No excuse. Driver error.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I would think from an engineering point of view, it accepts the fact that the rear tyres are basically there to keep the bum off the ground to stop the exhaust from rubbing on the road. From a practical point of view, having all the tyres the same size allows for rotation of tyres from front to rear. Given that the front tyres take 80% of the punishment and mainly on the outer edges, it makes sense to move them to the rear once they start to squeal on corners. The rear tyres are happy with good tread in the centre, the fronts really need good tread on the edges (as well as the centres that wear slower).

    The short answer to you question is I haven't a clue why Citroen chose to have smaller (narrower) tyres on the rear of the CX.

    John

    I have no idea why the CX spun. I had been driving for 8 hours through the night. Stopped at Ballina for breaky. It had only been raining for about 1/2 an hour (roads may have been a bit greasy). I went through an S bend too fast. The arse let go. I was too slow to correct. I saw the railings of the bridge that we went over travelling backwards (and had a bad flashback to going over a bridge upside down in a Cortina many years earlier). The CX completed the spin (360 degrees) and ambled up the road as though nothing happened. I pulled over expecting to see a flat rear tyre, but all tyres looked OK. No excuse. Driver error.

    Wow. A moment to remember then...

    Many thanks re the tyres. I ought to look into it, as I can't fit a front tyre in the engine bay using the most sensible Bob Jane size (closest to the original dimensions I mean) but can fit the rear size in. Less weight and rolling resistance, and I guess some other aspects at the rear like less grip or less tendency to aquaplane given much less weight. Nothing to do with braking (you almost wonder why the CX had rear brakes at all). I presume that there was some theoretical benefit but in practice I have my doubts.
    JohnW

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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Citroen fitted smaller tyres on the back in the early days just like on the D. Later it was 185/14 all round and then 195/70/14. I would avoid those light truck tyres like the plague. Just put 195/70/14 XM2s on it and I am sure you will be happy. Sometimes I look at the front tyres and they look a bit squashed but if the gauge says they have 2.2 bar I don't worry. Normal for a CX with 70% of the weight on the front. Just checked my logbook, I fitted XM1s on 21/7/2009 at 273,952 miles. As of today I need new tyres and she is sitting on 319683. they have been rotated but that is 73,759km out of a set of tyres on a CX. I would not believe it except I have kept the records myself.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Just ordered the XM2s, in stock in Australia and will be at Tyreplus Engadine next week. $140 per tyre. If they are as good as the XM1s I will be very pleased.
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    I've just had the front exhaust sections replaced on 'Rusty' the CX and its lovely and quiet compared now. But now I can hear the noisy TRX's... WTF, its like old 4x4 tyre noise! I'm trying slightly higher pressure to see if that makes any difference 34 front and 29 back, but actually I think the noise level is exactly the same. I hope the tyre performance makes up for the hideous noise. Of course unless the noisy is bearings not tyres.


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  21. #21
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    I can't remember the TRXs I had on my Pug 504 being noisy, but that was a long time ago. Is it a bit noisier when you go round a gentle bend. In that case it could be bearings.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Bush way of eliminating tyre noise is to drive on grass.

    Jo

  23. #23
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    When I first fitted the Alfa mags to my car, I used the old tyres that were on the rims. Rears were a square blocky Conti that had quite a lot of feathering on the edges from their previous life. They were also a bit dry and hard. I guess they were about 5 years old. The 'instant' noise was dramatic. If I hadn't just fitted them, I would have sworn it was a wheel bearing. They did quiet down a little once they wore into the CX.

    Fitting new Michelins eliminated the noise (almost) completely. Now running Pilot Sport 3 in 205/55 ZR16. Really happy with them.

    My experience, FWIW, is that tyres seem to go off in about 3 years. Anything older seems to go dry and hard. Don't skimp on tyres. They are your only contact with Terra Firma.....
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    maybe an easy test is to swap to the DS wheels 185/15 michelins and run it round the block as an experiment?


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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    maybe an easy test is to swap to the DS wheels 185/15 michelins and run it round the block as an experiment?
    good luck with your nuts do not think you will find your studs D and CX wheels are as alike as chalk and cheese
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