Dodgy Diesel for my 09 C5?
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  1. #1
    Tadpole lovemonkey's Avatar
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    Default Dodgy Diesel for my 09 C5?

    Have heard a lot of rumours about problems that members have had with various brands of diesel....I seem to had similar with one brand that I have used routinely (because I have a work fuel card) since I've had the car that seems to have caused my fuel filter to clog up prematurely,causing all sorts of error warnings and performance issues with my car (2009 X7 C5 2l Exclusive)...anyone having the same issues should be able to I.D the brand Im using....does anyone know what exactly is wrong with this fuel????

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Yes I have had problems with quality of diesel fuel in my C5 X7 as well. When I was having problems, I was using Woollies/Caltex and some of the independents and I have been through 2 filters in 30kkm. It was then suggested to me by the Citroen Dealer that I should use BP as I was the best quality and that Coles(Shell) would be OK. So I have been using Coles for the last 20kkm and fuel filter is still going OK at this stage.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

  3. #3
    UFO
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    In 57k km there has probably been no more than 100l of non BP or Shell diesel through my C5 - due to inability to find BP or Shell at the time and once when little UFO drove it and thought he should put some fuel in.

    We have never had a problem with a blocked filter.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  4. #4
    jmn
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    I know of a recent case where the owner of a fairly new Audi Q7 (around $90k worth) succumbed to the siren song of "cheap diesel".

    Engine management system showed its indignation by promptly shutting down operations. The Audi dealer couldn't get the thing going for almost two weeks and when they finally did, it still wasn't running well.
    Owner finished up trading it in at a heavy loss somewhere. The repair bill was over $10k and I'm not sure who paid but many car makers look for the slightest excuse to void warranty where any semblance of fuel conamination is evident.

    Moral of the story where cheap fuel (especially diesel) is concerned is: "Ya feelin' lucky.....well, are ya?"
    Previous:
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    2003 C5 2.0 auto
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    I think the fuel filter normally gets changed at about a 40kkm interval. So Craig I don't think you would be on your original one anyway. Its nice that you havn't had to experience the coughs, splutters and hiccups you get when the filter gets blocked enough to flow limit the amount of diesel getting to the HP diesel pump.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

  6. #6
    UFO
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    I'll ask when I drop it off for its service next week. You might be right about the filter at 40k.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    BP and (I think) Shell Guarantee their diesel and other fuels:
    http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...5h1xgA&cad=rjt

    "What BP will pay:
    If the results of BPís investigations show that the BP
    fuel you have purchased has caused a problem with a
    component of your fuel system, BP will:
    (i) replace the product free of charge; and
    (ii) pay to have the affected parts replaced."

    Might be prudent to use one of their fuel cards given the high cost of diesel repairs.

    Valvster

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I always get a tax receipt when i get diesel fuel, record the total klm on the receipt and copy the receipt, keep it in a small note book, if you have any problems re fuel your covered.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Shell Diesel?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BP and (I think) Shell Guarantee their diesel and other fuels:
    Just bought a second hand C5 2.2 diesel.
    So I was interested in the branding issue.

    I had a look at BP and their website is clear. They guarantee their fuel.

    I looked at the Shell website as well. I could not find a guarantee.
    I did find this statement on a "Coles" website in the NT.

    Coles Express and our fuel supplier, Shell Australia, take the quality of fuel very seriously and test the product several times before it is sold. Should you have a concern with any fuel products, we’ll be more than happy to investigate the matter. Please contact us and have your tax invoice receipt ready, as proof of purchase, in order for our team to investigate your claim.
    To me, that statement it is not quite as reassuring as the BP statement. I guess I'll be changing brands from Dutch to UK.

    Something to consider perhaps?


    David

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovemonkey View Post
    Have heard a lot of rumours about problems that members have had with various brands of diesel....I seem to had similar with one brand that I have used routinely (because I have a work fuel card) since I've had the car that seems to have caused my fuel filter to clog up prematurely,causing all sorts of error warnings and performance issues with my car (2009 X7 C5 2l Exclusive)...anyone having the same issues should be able to I.D the brand Im using....does anyone know what exactly is wrong with this fuel????
    Had issues with my diesels (Citroen and Peugeot) using Woolworths Caltex and once 7 Eleven. Only use BP or Shell.
    I might act like an idiot, and I might look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: I really AM an idiot!

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced it's the fuel. The C4 here played up with less than 15,000kms on it (from new that is). They add the olyos ( ?? ) fluid each time you fill the car right So you if add a small amount of fuel regularly, rather than a full tank each time it's empty ........ You'll add more of the fluid. I reckon it'll be this olyos fluid itself that's blocking up the filters. NOT the diesel used.

    Here's another way to look at it..... Is it only the PSA diesels fitted with the particle filter that have the "blocked fuel filter" issue I wouldn't mind betting it is I'm going to buy in a service kit fo the C4 here..... Add an extra external air filter (as it is absolutely, completely-totally.. utterly ludicrous the amount of work involved to get to the air cleaner .... gee's I HATE working on PSA cars... ). I'll also add an extra fuel filter before the existing one and change it at each oil change (ie: 10,000kms).

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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    The V6 HDI fuel filter is replaced at every service. ie:20,000kms.

    I cannot pass comment on the 4 cyl. UFO all that info is in the handbook. Would have thought that would be easier than asking the dealer?
    Regards,

    Garth.


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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Right on the money ShaneL.
    Been using any diesel available for Ks100,000 in my 2003 C5 and never had a filter issue except after one Woolies servo at Forest lake in Bris, the pump wouldn't turn off, had to hit emergency button, frigin' diesel everywhere. Overseas guy behind counter didn't appear to speak English and was deaf. Got a tank full of crushed ball bearings, brass shavings and other assorted gems. Otherwise never had a fuel issue.

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    Default diesel fuels

    Let's just say that I have more than a passing interest in biodiesel.

    Biodiesel has detergent like properties which cleans fuel tanks, fuel lines etc and conveniently lodges the muck in the fuel filter. Whenever we are advising people about changing to a biodiesel blend or 100% biodiesel, we always suggest they carry a number of fuel filters so as not to get caught short by fuel blockages. The problem is not in the quality of properly made and properly tested quality biodiesel but rather the accumulation of various muck from tank load after tank load of any diesel.

    My understanding, and I am happy to be made wrong here, is that Caltex and therefore Woolies in NSW blend a percentage of biodiesel in their normal diesel fuel and that the detergent impact dislodges muck already in the tank and deposits it in the fuel filter.

    Australian Standard Diesel can contain up to 20% biodiesel and when blended in this portion is normally acknowledged as b20, however lesser percentages are possible.

    A percentage of biodiesel in normal diesel can actually help replace the sulphur removed from normal diesel in recent years which led to large numbers of problems in many diesel vehicle fuel pumps and indeed engines.

    For what its worth the problems described may not necessarily be a fuel problem but a problem of accumulation of mould, slimes and general build ups in lines being cleaned and deposited in fuel filters.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramana View Post
    Australian Standard Diesel can contain up to 20% biodiesel and when blended in this portion is normally acknowledged as b20, however lesser percentages are possible.
    As it is in Europe, standard automotive diesel in Australia is allowed to contain up to 5% biodiesel (no label required). Vehicle manufacturers and fuel injection equipment (FIE) manufacturers all guarantee their equipment to this level.

    In 2009, the European standard for diesel fuel (EN 590) increased it's maximum biodiesel content to 7%. The position of the vehicle and FIE manufacturers remains the same.

    Biodiesel blends exceeding 7% must be labelled in Europe; 5% for Australia.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramana View Post
    A percentage of biodiesel in normal diesel can actually help replace the sulphur removed from normal diesel in recent years which led to large numbers of problems in many diesel vehicle fuel pumps and indeed engines.
    The identical lubricity requirement for European and Australian diesel fuel (i.e. wear scar diameter not exceeding 460 μm) should ensure reliable operation.

    Having said that, one study has shown that adding just 2% biodiesel can reduce that further.

    More info: Diesel Fuel Quality Standard - Australia


    My belief is that while there is nothing inherently wrong with Australian diesel, not all diesel that leaves the refinery ends up in the same state when it eventually reaches a vehicle's tank (dodgy dispenser pumps, poor storage & maintenance, etc, etc).

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
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    If your engine is not built to run on Bio diesel then it's not recommended you use it. Citroen say the 2.0 Ltr diesel must not be run on Bio diesel. Anyway too much will eventually eat out the fuel lines disolve the filters and pit all the light metal parts. Metal fuel tanks, well in case any cars still use them these days?, eventually end up full of holes using too much Bio D. Standard issue diesel is the safe way to go.

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