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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Default Professional restorers.

    Are there any professional restorers that can bring old Cits. to life?

    A mate has shown interest in a big 15 traction avant that has been stored for a while. He has NO mechanical skills.

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    Would the costs be worth it ?

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    it depends on what value one places on a restored 15...
    Paying others to do restoration work is "expensive"...

    If I payed somebody to restore my newly bought "D"... I wouldnt expect much change from 50K...
    Once you factor in the hundreds of hours required to restore a car properly you will realize why it costs so much...
    Just look at Shanes current thread on his resto... if he was paying somebody else to do the work he has done he would be down thousands and thousands of dollars...
    Paying others to restore a car is costly... be prepared for some serious dollars to be exchanged... and rightly so if the work is of high standard...

    I d say you d be down a couple of
    grand or so on the strip down... another 5k for prep work... 5-10K for paint..
    So as you can see you are down 15K before you even start to consider rust repairs, upholstery, mechanical repairs... costs of parts etc etc etc...
    Unless you are "made" of money... paying somebody else to restore an old car is simply not feasible...
    You are much better of buying a car where somebody else has done the spending for you...
    One hardly ever recovers moneys spent on a car... they are a money pit... so unless you ve got a phase three xy gt, an original monaro... it simply way to expensive...




    dino

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    it depends on what value one places on a restored 15...
    Paying others to do restoration work is "expensive"...

    If I payed somebody to restore my newly bought "D"... I wouldnt expect much change from 50K...
    Once you factor in the hundreds of hours required to restore a car properly you will realize why it costs so much...
    Just look at Shanes current thread on his resto... if he was paying somebody else to do the work he has done he would be down thousands and thousands of dollars...
    Paying others to restore a car is costly... be prepared for some serious dollars to be exchanged... and rightly so if the work is of high standard...

    I d say you d be down a couple of
    grand or so on the strip down... another 5k for prep work... 5-10K for paint..
    So as you can see you are down 15K before you even start to consider rust repairs, upholstery, mechanical repairs... costs of parts etc etc etc...
    Unless you are "made" of money... paying somebody else to restore an old car is simply not feasible...
    You are much better of buying a car where somebody else has done the spending for you...
    One hardly ever recovers moneys spent on a car... they are a money pit... so unless you ve got a phase three xy gt, an original monaro... it simply way to expensive...




    dino
    That all sounds right, but I'll add that finding a restorer to work over an old citroen might be a challenge.

    If you were restoring a 1950's chev, like a friend of mine is, you would have no trouble finding a whole stack of people who know the cars inside out, have contacts in the states who supply body parts and trim, and are always looking for new clients who's cars they can restore to keep their business running.
    In some ways, these people might actually save you money that you might waste by doing things wrong, and by sharing their wholesale import contacts.

    Jo

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'm sure Heko and Co would be capable. Pick a figure that you think sounds like the right amount ........ and add another zero to it and you'll probably be close to right

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    Put it in a box put a stamp on it send it to vietnam with $5000 us in notes and await return of mint car in 6 months NOT KIDDING
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    That all sounds right, but I'll add that finding a restorer to work over an old citroen might be a challenge.

    If you were restoring a 1950's chev, like a friend of mine is, you would have no trouble finding a whole stack of people who know the cars inside out, have contacts in the states who supply body parts and trim, and are always looking for new clients who's cars they can restore to keep their business running.
    In some ways, these people might actually save you money that you might waste by doing things wrong, and by sharing their wholesale import contacts.

    Jo
    Agree... They are out there... but you are right, rarity probably raises price... I know guys who restore old mercs, bentleys and rollers, mgees, holdens and fords...
    Then there are the hot rod guys... lots of talent out there... but look at the pricing...
    As an example when I looked around to get my 604 leather seats repaired... I received quotes ranging from $100 (repair) to $600... per seat... and then there was the couple (who specialize in old school caddies and rods)... nope... they werent interested... they insisted on "new" leather... we are looking at couple of K per seat and guess what... They d be finished when they are good and ready... one of the guys couldnt start work for like three months... he had that much work... and I could see it all around him. Quality of work on show was top notch.
    Guess what I m trying to say is that a "good" restorer is a busy restorer... like a good restaurant.



    dino

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tasie C5 View Post
    Would the costs be worth it ?
    Yes

    Would it make economic sense? ... almost certainly not.

    If your friend really wants a T/A back on the road then well worth while but if not better to sell what he has to someone who does.
    Michael
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    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger
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    First thing to realise here is that a Big 15 is essentially a Normale, which is the larger body with the 4 cylinder engine. So, it's going to be slower to drive than a Light 15. There are less Big 15's around than Light 15's, but they are not necessarily worth a great deal more.

    If the potential buyer has no skills, then he may be better off buying a running car and just playing around the edges with smaller projects and farming out larger ones. A total professional restoration is not going to be economically viable for one of these cars. Alternatively, it could be a rewarding learning experience for him.

    So, what's the car like overall? Is it a sound original car needing only sympathetic re-commissioning or is it a wreck that's been lucky to have been placed in storage and is now needing a nut and bolt restoration.

    The engine bearings are white metal and that's a specialist and very expensive skill to have to buy in. Yes, you can use ID rods to fit shell bearings to the big ends, but the mains are still white metal and likely to need replacement. The oil pump needs a bit of fiddling to set up correctly. The engine is otherwise little different to any other pushrod unit. Assume the gearbox needs parts, some of which can be costly. These car often also need a new floorpan and sill repairs, so you'd want to check these. Rear door sag is a clue about the sills.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    So, what's the car like overall? Is it a sound original car needing only sympathetic re-commissioning or is it a wreck that's been lucky to have been placed in storage and is now needing a nut and bolt restoration.

    And therein lies part of the problem...
    A large majority of the "better" restorers dont do things by half... and more often than not what appears to only need a basic repair turns out to require much more work (in their eyes...sometimes justified, sometimes not)...
    Taking an old car to pro restorers is like taking your car to the mechanic and asking him to only change the spark plugs but it comes back to you with a freshly rebuilt engine... a new transmission and a reco diff... ohh yeah the exhaust was replaced as well....
    Knowing what needs fixing exactly is part of the problem... Knowing when to stop fixing stuff that isnt broken is also part of the problem and hence the cost...
    But this type of logic is a bit skewed though as often it is one repair or restoration of one component that leads to another... ie...new paint makes old chrome look inadequate... So although a simple polish although adequate often isnt enough... so one ends up replating to match the now otherwise "new" look of the rest of vehicle... then the upholstery (otherwise good) starts to look dated... and so on and so on...
    IMO restoring is as much about "identifying" what needs fixing as it is about the level of restoration required... but I m old school and belive that old cars "shouldnt" be stripped of "ALL" their character...
    i think this is lost in many restos... cars look great but they no longer tell a story...



    dino

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Thank you all. The dedication it needs to restore is admirable. It is obviously a labour of love.

    I will mention the Vietnam option.

    Allan

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