2CV Suspension part needed
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default 2CV Suspension part needed

    I think we may have discussed this at some length before, however I don't have the time to chase through umpteen posts tonight so I'll ask the question anyway.

    Does anyone have a spare later 2CV spring can assembly they either don't want or can loan to me & me mate?

    The Alleged Vehicle has attained Club Permit Status and The Mate is keen to suss out the lack of bounce in the left hand spring can, but doesn't want the beast off the road for long while he susses. (He's having WAY too much fun driving the thing!)

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    So if you've got one (or a set) going begging, please let me know.

    Also, if anyone's at the Berwick Swap Meet tomorrow, rock up and say G'Day. I'll (hopefully) have the Xantia at the stall, and a load of junk...er sorry, Good Stuff, for sale.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    Default +1 here too....

    I expect to pay, im not one of those shallow fairies pretending to be community minded, screwing anything upright and breathing......

    Ciow

    Adam

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggy View Post
    I expect to pay, im not one of those shallow fairies pretending to be community minded, screwing anything upright and breathing......

    Ciow

    Adam

    Ummm. Should I feel insulted? I've never been called a shallow fairy before. (to the best of my knowledge)

    Adam, I too expect to pay my way in life. My enquiry was to see if such an item is available in the Aussiefrogs community.

    As for screwing anything upright and breathing, I wish. I'm nearly 60 for God's sake! (And Mrs P would probably have an objection or two as well.

    If your post was meant to be in jest, then it was somewhat ambiguous.

    If it was meant to insult me, and it makes you feel better to have done so, then you have my pity.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  4. #4
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    Hi Pottsy

    ummm, back to the spring-pot, im not aware of any lying around spare at the moment, unless Griesy has one, or Viking their not the sort of thing that usually fails.

    It would be interesting to find out whats causing the lack of bounce. An inspection camera that would fit under the boot at each end might give some indication of the spring condition - maybe their broken......


    Ian

  5. #5
    JBN
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    Pottsy,

    Can you describe again exactly what the problem is. Have you lubricated the spring pots with vegetable oil? Buy a litre of vegetable oil and coax half into each spring pot (read Haynes).

    Remember, the spring pot can be cut. The actual front spring and rear spring are not that long. I have seen some spring pots as virtual skeletons. A new one at ECAS is about GBP85, thats just for the tube.

    Have you checked that the suspension rods are the same length (ie front left = front right)?

    John

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the (positive) responses guys.

    The original symptom was the front left of the car sitting very low. My initial investigations showed the spring pot on the LHS to be falling down on its job somewhat.

    I was able to alleviate it enough to drive the car by taking up all the adjustment in the front left hand pull rod. Knife edges and associated bits are all fine.

    The spring pot itself has a rust hole though it and the "bounce" on the left front is much less than I would expect. I did try squirting some lubricant in but it didn't seem to make a difference at all. (On spec I used a dry silicone based spray that is amazingly effective on everything I've used it on so far.)

    All these things together seem to point towards a broken, or at least much less springy, spring.

    I guess we're just going to have to bite the bullet and bring a set in from OS. Since we want the car to behave properly that is the most likely solution.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! petitepoupée's Avatar
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    Although it doesn't help you with getting hold of the hardware Pottsy, there's some good reading here, if you can access the web page... cheers!
    http://www.international2cvfriends.c....php?f=7&t=485
    1974 D Special, 2015 Fiat Panda Twinair turbo 85hp (), 2011 VW biturbo camper.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! petitepoupée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moondoggy View Post
    I expect to pay, im not one of those shallow fairies pretending to be community minded, screwing anything upright and breathing......

    Ciow

    Adam
    For "Ciow", please read "Ciao".
    1974 D Special, 2015 Fiat Panda Twinair turbo 85hp (), 2011 VW biturbo camper.

  9. #9
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    Gday Pottsy

    I little rust shouldnt hurt the funtioning of the spring can.

    The lubricant is generally only to reduce any noise. Mineral oils apparently degrade the rubber materals. I generaly just use vegtable oil from the supermarket.

    Does the spring can have any obvious dings or out-of-roundness that would reduce movement within the spring can?

    Thinking away from the springpots, have you tried disconnecting the front and rear swing arms from the shock absorbers and knife edges to see if the swing arms move freely? Also, do the shock absorbers move freely?

    Ian
    Last edited by IanS; 5th February 2012 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #10
    JBN
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    Before getting springpots from overseas, I would be inclined to cut bits out of the existing one. You say you have a rust spot. I guess it would probably be on the bottom of the springpot. The visible rust spot could indicate far worse problems internally.

    I would be inclined to grind out a 2-3" wide strip from about 2" behind the front springpot bulkhead back about 12" Do this along the bottom of the springpot, the most likely area for rust.

    Have a look inside, see what you see. I have seen photos of springpots that have 50% of the tube missing. Then they usually paint the actual spring bright red or yellow. It is a popular modification for 2CV cross enthusiasts. They are much more inclined to experiment with different springs.

    The standard complete tube is engineering overkill as far as strength goes. The fact that the tubes are sold as replacement items indicates that rust and severe dents (particularly within 12" of the bulkheads front and rear) require them to be replaced at times. I have a big dent in the bottom centre but the springs don't extend that far so it means nothing.

    There is a felt (?) ring around the mushroom base of the rods (behind the springs) which needs to be lubricated ocassionally using vegetable based oils (original spec was caster oil, but it is a bit expensive). Mineral oils aren't recommended. Cold pressed extra virgin olive oil greatly exceeds the specs, and I am not sure the virgin content would reduce squeaking, probably increase it I would think.

    John

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! John P's Avatar
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    Hi, Pottsy.
    I've got a suspension pot, with rods, that I'm happy to lend you. condition is unknown, though and I will need it for the next project. This is the season for visiting the Mornington Peninsula. PM me and we'll see what we can arrange.
    2006 C5 2.0 HDI estate - daily driver
    1981 2CV - The Amelie project is complete.
    1930 C6F torpedo - My Great Folly! Project under way.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Thanks for that John. I'll be in touch as soon as I know when I can get down there.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  13. #13
    Tadpole smatic's Avatar
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    Hi all. I'm the other half of Pottsy's 2cv.
    as to the spring, it's behaving like its got a broken or sagged spring. we have travel, but a much much higher springrate, hence the adjustment to get the ride hight.
    similar to the rubber donuts in minis sagging with age, down goes the corner, up goes the stiffness,.(sorry, i also have minis)

    PvA

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Can't believe it's taken so long to get to this bit of kit.

    Today I removed the pot from the LH side. It does indeed seem to be a broken or sagged front spring. Here's how I arrived at this conclusion.

    First thing I did was inspect with a USB camera, but that was sort of inconclusive, although it has shown an enormous amount of scunge in there. Had to keep pulling the camera out and cleaning the lens!

    Next I expanded the original rust hole and cut another matching one so I could compare the two springs. By weaselling with a screw driver I could move the springs along past the hole and even rotate them a bit.

    The "good" rear spring seems to have even spacing between the coils of about 15mm give or take a bit. The front spring is fine for a couple of coils, then the spacing changes to about 1mm! By rotating the spring I thought I might find a break, but no luck there so far. Certainly the spring appears to be knackered.

    Bearing this out I took some empirical depth measurements from the front face of the pot to the flange of the cup that pulls against the sping from the middle of the pot.

    On the good end it measured roughly what the book says a spring free length should be.

    On the dodgy end, it was about 45mm light on. Backs up my hypothesis I reckon.

    So now we look at ways and means of obtaining at least a set of springs for the beast. Anyone going OS wants to bring back some bouncy hand luggage?

    Anyone got a set of standard 2CV6 spings they want to sell or give away?

    The questions go on and on!

    Cheers, Pottsy

    PS. Loving how these things are made. So simple yet so effective. Where did we go wrong since then?
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  15. #15
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy
    ...Loving how these things are made. So simple yet so effective. Where did we go wrong since then?
    There's a good few theses' worth of material in answering, I reckon.

  16. #16
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    Pottsy, your on the right track. Unless the springs are functioning correctly then nothing else can compensate. Im sorry i dont have a spare set of coils

    And were did we go wrong? Its easy. Everyone wants more, more speed, more comfort, more power........

    Ian S

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Potsy,
    I can help you with a spring pot assembly - you need the early old type I think - I have these.
    Ted Cross
    ( Hawk )
    0400592208

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Thanks Ted.

    The car with the saggy left front is the 1986 2CV6 ("The Alleged Vehicle") so it uses the "small", as in non-van, spring pots.

    I may have latched on to a set, awaiting more info.

    Thanks for the response.

    Are the early ones you have the ones with the volute spring instead of the rubber pads? These are what's on Alphonse.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  19. #19
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    Pottsy

    I have to ask, and appologise if yourve explained elsewhere, how did your car get to be named 'The Alleged Vehicle'?

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanS View Post
    Pottsy

    I have to ask, and appologise if yourve explained elsewhere, how did your car get to be named 'The Alleged Vehicle'?
    OK, it comes from Douglas Adams' book, "the long dark teatime of the soul". It's worth a quote or two, as Mr Adams had a delicious way with words that complemented his warped mind perfectly.

    The female protagonist drives a "battered yellow 2CV whch had had one careful owner but three suicidally reckless ones."
    " She held the car grimly to the road as it negotiated the bends with considerable difficulty and the straight sections with only slightly less."
    "After an incident involving a wheel taking off on an independent holiday, the Police witness had referred to her beloved Citroen as 'The Alleged Car' and the name had subsequently stuck."

    Both Pete & I are devotees of Mr Adams' work and decide that the description was apt, but classed it up a bit with 'vehicle' instead of 'car'.

    See. Makes perfect sense!

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  21. #21
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    Pottsy

    Thats very vivid and quite apt. I knew whatever the explanation it would make perfect sense.
    Cheers

    Ian

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default Sorted

    Thanks to a Frogger in NSW, we now have the proper suspension on TAV and to say it's amazing is an understatement.

    I now understand why 2CV owners smirk when speed humps are mentioned!

    It's such a simple design. A couple of bits of wood cut to the right nominal height were all I needed to gauge and adjust the suspension height. A cheap pair of small Stilson's was ideal for adjusting the rods.

    With all the bits that were either seized, or at least scungy, now cleaned and given a liberal serve of anti-seize, not to mention the pots cleaned and painted bright red, the car is well and truly taking shape.

    Contemplating a road trip this weekend, just to see how it feels.

    Thanks for all the support chaps and chappettes.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  23. #23
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    Yay Pottsy, thats a great outcome.

    A road trip sounds like a great idea. enjoy some dirt roads.

    All the amazingness of the suspension doesnt quite always conquer Australia's number one renewable resource, that is our corrugations

    Cheers

    Ian S

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