DS 21 restoration completion
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  1. #1
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    Default DS 21 restoration completion

    First a story and then some questions.

    I bought a restoration project about 18 months ago. It is a 1970 DS 21 5 speed Pallas. The original colour is Bleu Platine metallic. This was project which had got to the stage of having had all panels trued and faired, with a prime coat applied. All this some 12-15 years ago. Since then it has been sitting a garage. Being a Canberra car and kept in shelter it is somewhat rare in having no rust in the body, including boot, boot lid, pillars and wings. The doors, wings, roof, etc had all been stripped out and prepared for painting.

    My first task was to find a spray painter willing to undertake the task of painting. Ha! No one was interested. One lot did offer, saying it would cost between $15 and $35 K without even looking at the car or the pictures that I had of it. Another body shop said maybe, but could not start for many months. I do have some sympathy for their attitude in not wanting to be involved the completion of work that would be an unknown quantity, but it was frustrating. In the end a gent who had owned a panel business in Canberra, but now retired, offered to do the painting after he had inspected the car.

    In the months while waiting for someone to do the painting of the body, I painted out the headlight buckets as outlined in GB's resto thread (thanks Chris), removed the roof and cleaned off the remnants of the old headlining and generally cleaned and polished. Also ordered a new headlining and trim fixings and other parts from Citroworld.

    With the car back from being painted, I have installed the light buckets and electrics in the front wings and am ready to fix all the pallas bling to the exterior body and to glue in the headlining and other trims.

    Now for the questions.

    Fixing the bling. All the strips seem to be there, but there is a deficit of the fixings required. The strips seem to be held by small bolts passing through holes in the door/wing panels. They have a system of rubber grommets and washers around the bolts to insulate and protect the body panels. These are mostly missing. I did order some clips from Citroworld that were supposed to secure the rubbing strakes, but I am buggered if I can see how they are supposed to work. I have found that the countersunk head on 3/16" bolts fit neatly in the returns of the thin stainless strips on the tops and bottoms of the doors and could be a possible solution. For the central rubbing strakes, it may be possible to remove the rubber insert to through bolt the stainless steel carrier.

    SO if any of you have some advice, I would really like to hear it before continue with the project. Trouble is I cannot finish fitting out the doors until all the external trim is fitted.

    Glueing the headlining. I spoke to an auto paint shop lot here and they sold me a can of spray on glue (Super Stick Trim Adhesive by Transtar Autobody Techologies). I used this to glue in the insulation under the bonnet (closed cell foam double sided with aluminium, as suggested by Double Chevron). It seemed to stick OK but came out of the can as a solid string of glue rather than a spray mist. If any one can offer advice on the best approach I would be grateful.

    Sorry about running off at the mouth here, but there you have it.

    Did try to insert some pictures, but this newfangled Windows 7 computer won't let me. May have to post from my old computer.

    Cheers
    Richard

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
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    Perhaps, use just the two end bolts for the side trims plus double sided tape or urethane in between? It seems you have to remove the rubber to fit the small bolts. I have a couple of NOS front guard parts and they seem to have been supplied with the fasteners fitted. Removing the rubber will be fiddly and if you are going to do it, you might as well consider replacing all the inserts so you have something uniformly gray and fairly pliable to work with. Bending the folded over stainless at the ends should be avoided as it's almost impossible to fold it back correctly without damage. (Maybe, it would work if you annealed it?) If you buy a new set of repro side trims, they may not have any holes in the stainless. This is the case with a set obtained recently and the plan will have to be to drill a small hole at each end to secure it to the panel from behind and then stick it on in between them. I've seen what I take to be late Pallas doors with only the holes at the ends.

    On some spray cans, you need to rotate the nozzle to get it to work properly. It may even be partially blocked and preventing a spiderweb type of spray pattern. 3M makes Super Tim Adhesive, and I want to get a couple of cans for the same jobs you are doing, but have been unable to track it down so far.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Those clips for the narrow Pallas door trim should not be too difficult and can be done at any time. The correct ones are Tee shaped.

    The round stem pushes through the hole in the panel leaving a rectangular section on the outside. There are small plastic pegs which then push into the hollow centre of the round stem locking the clips in place. The stanless trim then just clips on to the rectangular part.

    I would advise fitting stainless screws each end of the bigger trims with adhesive tape between. Ideally all the extra holes would have been closed off before painting. You can probably just push the rubbers asaide to get the end screws in if they are still in place. I did this job myself just this last weekend.

    All external trim can be fitted after the doors are fully rebuilt and on the car.

    Auto Barn sell a pretty good "headliner and carpet adhesive" made by Permatex which has so far worked well for me , but ask me again in 15 years time . Shake well!
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    The Pallas trims on the bottoms of the doors on my 1969-70 car are held on with red clips. They have a round cylinder that pushes into the holes and flares the tube in which they fit. This locks them into the hole. You than slide the trim over the rectangular plastic blocks these clips leave exposed above the holes.

    I would assume that the trim on the tops of the doors is attached the same way.

    The mid line rub strips are attached by double sided tape.
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger
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    One word of waring, two actually.
    1) All the screws on the doors are Posidriv, not Philips.
    2) The Pallas strip on the inside of the door near the glass is fiddly to remove without damage to the stainless. Assuming they are off, make sure the zinc plated strips are re-fitted the right way and the screws are not stripped, which can happen when they are removed.

  6. #6
    Member cactus61's Avatar
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    the strips on mine have been in place for ~20 years now and were put on using a double sided tape (apparently the old holes are a good rust point). I didn't do the work so I can't say what brand tape was used. I also think this topic of fixing trim was discussed in another thread . cheers Mark

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    Blue Platine'.
    A one year only color.
    Here is something to help motivate you.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS 21 restoration completion-img_20111126_135432.jpg  

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Headlining

    This is a job I just had done yesterday with the assistance of my trimmer mate,he used a spray gun for the glue with 80psi air pressure.The glue came out of a 20l drum(Icould find out what it is)We used a thin layer of foam under the Headlining material.A great result.My mate,Jim has been doing them for 30y,they dont drop off which is the biggest worry.
    Woody

  9. #9
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    Default Some Pictures

    Hello all

    I am attaching, I hope, some pictures of my DS21. The first shows the car as it arrived at my house, in primer and with wings and doors stripped out. There should be two photos of it after it returned from the painter. Alas the strong light conditions do not really show the overall colour effect of the paint.

    I have also included a picture of the windscreen being replaced. We have been D owners for over 35 years and have had to replace windscreens from time to time. The wife and I managed this one in less than 30 minutes. Bring the screen forward from the rear of the car, lower it and lift it up into the rubber surround. As screen rubber was old the channel in it would close, preventing the screen being seated. We used flat thin utensils - paint scrapers, egg lifters, etc - to open the channel allow the screen to slide in.

    Rmac/Michaelr, the red clips that I have are in the form of a cross a tube that looks like it could be flared on one side of the plate and a short peg on the other side. It seems that the peg needs to be cut off and pushed into the tube. However, try as I might, I can't seem to fit the peg into the tube. Any further comments welcome.

    Started glueing the headlining fabric to the cantrail covers, but the spray glue that I used came out in a ruddy blush and soaked through the foam onto the velour fabric in a few spots. Will do for now, but no doubt it will grate when installed, so will probably be redone in time.

    Now for the roof.

    Cheers
    Richard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS 21 restoration completion-bild0938.jpg   DS 21 restoration completion-bild1198.jpg   DS 21 restoration completion-bild1200.jpg   DS 21 restoration completion-bild1194.jpg  

  10. #10
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Procter View Post
    Hello all

    Rmac/Michaelr, the red clips that I have are in the form of a cross a tube that looks like it could be flared on one side of the plate and a short peg on the other side. It seems that the peg needs to be cut off and pushed into the tube. However, try as I might, I can't seem to fit the peg into the tube. Any further comments welcome.

    Cheers
    Richard
    Hi Richard,
    The red clips sound like the ones used to hold the stainless trim top and bottom of doors? They fit into pre-drilled holes and the centre pin pushes in to expand and hold them in place. The stainless trim then simply clips over.

    Maybe post a pic of the clips to confirm?

    Edit: Just noticed rmac has already pointed this out...

    Cheers
    Chris
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Hi Richard,
    The red clips sound like the ones used to hold the stainless trim top and bottom of doors? They fit into pre-drilled holes and the centre pin pushes in to expand and hold them in place. The stainless trim then simply clips over.

    Maybe post a pic of the clips to confirm?

    Edit: Just noticed rmac has already pointed this out...

    Cheers
    Chris
    Me too!

    Richard, I can only think that the clips you have are the wrong size for the holes drilled in your panels. Maybe the painting has reduced the hole diameter?

    There should be no reason to cut the pegs though. Once the cylindrical piece is in the hole of the panel the plastic pins should be pushed in pointy end first and driven home until the top is flush with the surface.

    I will find some old original clips in my stock and measure them for you.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  12. #12
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    Default Red clips

    D'oh,

    I was convinced that the clips were a one piece moulding as there are no joins visible. Probably are, but the union of the peg with the rectangular flat piece must be very thin/weak. Just went out to the garage and tried to hammer the peg through the plate, and of course it worked, clip jammed solid in the 3/16" socket. So thanks for that extra advice, I may not have persisted otherwise.

    It is interesting the reaction I am having to this vehicle. My past D's have been passable vehicles, but never concours winners. I was always most concerned that the mechanicals and hydraulics were in good condition. My son on the other hand has had a D for some time and spends his effort in polishing/cleaning/shining. If a mechanical problem occurred it usually resulted in a call to Dad. I now find myself polishing and shining all the bling and interior in prospect of having a noteworthy car!

    Cheers
    Richard

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