why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder
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  1. #1
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    Default why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder

    PO's effort on my DS19 - there are a number of equally offensive attempts.
    roger

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Impressive... Looks like someone has filled a tennis ball sized hole with "blobs" of weld I guess cutting out a bit of metal to fit is to hard

    It's great to see you have started working on the DS19. It would be fantastic to see another one of them on the road. The area you have pictured looks different to the slightly later cars I'm used too. Is that a really early one with a rear brake accumulator Even the attachment point for the rear guard is a different design.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    It's known as 'electric bog'! Conveniently close to the fuel filler for welding too!

    It is quite easy to fill a small hole with a MIG, but that's taking it a little far. Perhaps, the rationale was simply that you can't see it with the guard on.

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    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    'Electric bog'! I like it.

    Said PO has form with that sort of welding on other cars.

    Shane, roger's DS19 is older than mine. Yes, two brake accumulators. First tail is indeed quite different from later cars.

    Roger

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    IIRC from Bob Dircks, some components on the rears of early DS19s changed almost by the month. That connector for the rear wing looks clever - guiding the bolt home I suppose.
    Craig K
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    PO's effort on my DS19 - there are a number of equally offensive attempts.
    roger
    The ol' knit one, purl one technique, just didn't learn how to cast off

    (Ask your better half if this makes no sense)

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    Same operator perhaps? Certainly the same result.


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    oh my eyes

    that patch up would weigh more than a piece of steel in there also creates more of a rust problem

    that exhaust, i just don't want to comment but that is just so wrong
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Same operator perhaps? Certainly the same result.



    Gee's I bet that didn't leak much

    I'd love to see an underbonnet shot of the DS19. If it's that early it'll have the twin points rather than a dizzie and a low pressure pump. What a car!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    That's not welding. It's ballast!
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Same operator perhaps? Certainly the same result.

    OK Richo, you win - that is truly hideous.
    roger

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    It's the 'I dunno when to stop' technique...the same thing can happen when you give a man a petrol powered chainsaw and plenty of saplings.

  13. #13
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    These are the early attempts to fashion a diesel particulate filter. The ends of the twin pipes are sealed off and the exhaust gases are forced to exit via the intermeshed external conglomeration. this external filter arrangement allows ease of cleaning without any disassembly, just a quick wash with a garden hose every 2000 ks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    OK Richo, you win - that is truly hideous.
    roger
    Sorry Roger, it wasn't meant to be a contest.

    The correct clamp assembly and sympatico would've prevented that dreadful event.
    Wrecked a perfectly good muffler and a pair of tail pipes. I still have the pipes, with the impossible dream that one day they might be saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post

    Said PO has form with that sort of welding on other cars.

    Shane, roger's DS19 is older than mine. Yes, two brake accumulators. First tail is indeed quite different from later cars.

    Roger
    Yes, Roger, I suspected that that was the case.
    Yep, two brake accumulators, twin point distributor, low pressure pump. When I first got the car I started documenting what I found different to what I knew of (not so) later Dees. After 2 pages on the brake system alone I gave up. The early cars really are "works in progress".
    roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    :



    I'd love to see an underbonnet shot of the DS19. If it's that early it'll have the twin points rather than a dizzie and a low pressure pump. What a car!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Shane, I dont have any underbonnet photos of the '57 DS19 to hand, but my '58 ID19 has a same period DS19 engine complete with twin point distributor and low pressure pump. The latter has the guts removed as it's not required for the manual trans. Pics of the ID19 follow - it's all a bit grubby from sitting around in the workshop.
    roger
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder-dscn1622.jpg   why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder-dscn1623.jpg   why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder-dscn1624.jpg   why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder-dscn1625.jpg   why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder-dscn1626.jpg  

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It's remarkable, even on the ID19 ... every looks the same ... but is different. Even the rubber strips where the panel seal are retained in a different manner.

    the motor is very different, it appears there is no takeoff for the single cylinder pump, the oil feed line is at the front of the motor (so the head and block must be different). Even the water pump and coolant hose layout is different (much better, you can access and see them). I bet it runs nicely with the external manifold, twin choke carby and twin points setup.

    That's a remarkably clean and tidy underbonnet. Most ID's I see look like 50 year old rusty, corroded wrecks under the bonnet if you look.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  18. #18
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    Shane,
    If I remember correctly ( and no doubt I will be corrected ) early DS 19 water pumps were in fact two pumps..a traditional water one and a low pressure hydraulic one that shared the same shaft..the low pressure hydraulic pump thus worked like the later centrifugal regulator.
    The external inlet manifold prevented the fitting of a conventional distributor cap as there wasn't enough height so the two sets of points and double ended coils were used..a wasted spark system.
    They also had fan assisted heater elements fitted inside the cars cabin and not just the engine compartment unit as seen here...and if I am correct the radiator fan assisted duct to the heater was an ID mod.....anyway more informed heads will add details I am sure. keep up the good work.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default What to do about feral MIG welders...

    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    PO's effort on my DS19 - there are a number of equally offensive attempts.
    roger
    The technique for this sort of repair is to cut a patch to fit (after cutting out the mess) and use a solid lump of copper to back the repair while welding.

    The job looks like, weld current too high and wire speed too high for the gauge being welded.

    The weld will still pull, but can be planished in this location.

    Good luck cleaning it up.

    Bruce.

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    Icon6 They resemble some......past ....efforts,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Llewellyn View Post
    The technique for this sort of repair is to cut a patch to fit (after cutting out the mess) and use a solid lump of copper to back the repair while welding.

    The job looks like, weld current too high and wire speed too high for the gauge being welded.

    The weld will still pull, but can be planished in this location.

    Good luck cleaning it up.

    Bruce.
    All that reminds me of a visitor from New Zealand, who stopped me from replacing the rear muffler on my car with a new one. He observed that I had a perfectly good oxy acetylene kit in my workshop and got under the car and showed me how easy it was to repair/patch rather than prematurely replace an exhaust that as he said "had years left in its life" with a little attention.

    That was well over 40 years ago and over that time I have become adept at gas welding metal blobs to seal up exhausts, some of my earlier attempts certainly looked a "bit" primitive as I chased for more secure metal or built up the missing with black mild steel rods stitched together. Best I did was to get another 8-10 years out of an exhaust but in the end found that my eye focus change - distance to work, made it difficult working under cars and hard to get a good neat weld in a confined space.

    Must be easy with new fangled wire and gas controlled welders to stitch things together, but I still stick with my trusty oxy acetylene Yep some of those welds look just like my early attempts!! PS the first bundle of soft black mild steel welding rods lasted for years, but then I used to weld on a new rod to the old for economy and to maintain my tight wad status.!!

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    OK Richo, you win - that is truly hideous.
    roger
    I call thëm "Birdshit Welds"

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    Good grief!

    After viewing that image I think I'll stop being so much of a perfectionist on my welding technique. Actually my big problem is grinding the weld down so much that I manage to take the surrounding area from 16g to 20g.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails why some people shouldn't be allowed near a MIG welder-cx-wheel-arch-repair.jpg  

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Default The faithfull old gas axe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    All that reminds me of a visitor from New Zealand, who stopped me from replacing the rear muffler on my car with a new one. He observed that I had a perfectly good oxy acetylene kit in my workshop and got under the car and showed me how easy it was to repair/patch rather than prematurely replace an exhaust that as he said "had years left in its life" with a little attention.

    That was well over 40 years ago and over that time I have become adept at gas welding metal blobs to seal up exhausts, some of my earlier attempts certainly looked a "bit" primitive as I chased for more secure metal or built up the missing with black mild steel rods stitched together. Best I did was to get another 8-10 years out of an exhaust but in the end found that my eye focus change - distance to work, made it difficult working under cars and hard to get a good neat weld in a confined space.

    Must be easy with new fangled wire and gas controlled welders to stitch things together, but I still stick with my trusty oxy acetylene Yep some of those welds look just like my early attempts!! PS the first bundle of soft black mild steel welding rods lasted for years, but then I used to weld on a new rod to the old for economy and to maintain my tight wad status.!!

    Ken
    I've done lots of repairs with the gas. The MIG only has one advantage, that it doesn't put so much heat in for a given weld, so you get less weld pull than oxy. The oxy will weld dirty crap beutifully, where the metal has to be clean for the MIG.

    I did the factory installed rust in the roof of a R31 Pintara wagon some years back, one patch with oxy the rest with MIG. Lot less work getting the roof fair after using the MIG.

    Bruce.

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