Xantia fan wiring...
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Default Xantia fan wiring...

    Hi John,
    these are the photos I took today of the fan wiring on my Xantia. I removed the fan so you can see easily how the connection goes. I added the connector block when I replaced the old melted brown wiring block. I'm afraid these pictures don't tell you much. The wires all disappear into the wiring loom, wrapped in black tape. I checked for tightness of the connections while I had it out.

    I hope this helps. Cheers...George 1/8th

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  2. #2
    JBN
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    Thanks George. My trick now will be to see where that thick red wire is.

    I have a thinner red wire and a green wire that went into a relay next to the blower motor. Obviously a homegrown affair as the red and green wire snaked over the centre console and was plugged into a green connector (normally used to plug relays into) which was associated with a (non existant) sunroof. Those two wires were obviously never part of the original harness.

    Fortunately the electric windows still work and over the years I have developed a selective deafness when it comes to the spouse's complaints about stuffiness, being too hot or being too cold. Sadly she has a "me, me, me, bloody me syndrome".

    John

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hey John,
    I'd probably edit out the last half of that message, unless the prospect of celibacy doesn't phase you.

    Re the Xantia fan wiring, this fan really pulls the juice so it needs that heavy gauge wire to deliver the amps without loss. The only weak spot I've found in the system is the ignition switch that seems to overheat. You have to use the ignition switch as a low amp switch to trigger a 30amp relay. I found a non used 12 volt connection under the dash that was perfect, with the ignition on it supplied a steady 12 volts, and it had a black wire too, the earth contact. So, this 12 volt low amp supply is now wired through the ignition switch to energise the relay, which now takes the place of the ignition contact, it can handle the high amp loading. High load heavy wiring goes to the main relay contacts now instead of the ignition switch.

    You might have to find the discarded part of the loom that no longer supplies power to the fan. It sounds like someone re-wired your fan but didn't use a heavy enough gauge wire to carry the amps.

    Good luck with the job....cheers...George 1/8th.

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    JBN
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    Yes, that is what seems to have happened. After the blower stopped working and I noticed the heat damage, I decided to do the job properly.

    My first solution has been to do the heavy duty relay addition below the steering column to prevent the ignition contacts from taking the full load. Problem is, the original heavy duty red wire is nowhere to be seen. I guess its somewhere behind the dash.

    I'll see if I can coax the old body to contort itself to explore further what may lurk under the dash. It still amazes me how PSA have such a problem with electrics when the Japanese seem to have no troubles at all.

    John

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi John,
    it seems to me that PSA only made one electrical fault on this car, although it's a pretty important/major thing to stuff up, the ignition switch, where nearly everything electrical has to pass through.
    Disassembly of the original switch is a little tricky, because there are several loose parts that fall in a heap and you are left to figure out what they did.
    If you are like most people you toss it out at that point, and replace it with a new switch. Not me. I have to be the puzzle solver, to dismantle it, clean it and then figure out what the hell those parts are for, where they go, and how to re-assemble them so it all operates again. But that's just me. That's probably why I was a camera repair technician.
    I love this car because I can rebuild most of it.

    So, getting back to the point, the ignition is the worst thing they did electrically on this car, and they totally changed the switch in the series 2 car.
    But, the relay mod seems to fix it .

    Cheers...George 1/8th

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    JBN
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    As a camera technician, your instinct is to fix it.

    As a one time platoon commander of an anti-tank platoon, my choice of weapons would be:
    • 84mm Carl Gustav recoilless rifle
    • 106mm RCL with HESH round (High Explosive Squash Head)
    The former will reduce the Xantia to its components parts. The latter will erase all memory of the Xantia.

    In the meantime, I will try and connect the wire from the relay mod to the blower motor, to give it some chance of working.

    John

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    Default Xantia blower fan wiring...

    Hi John,
    it's almost a year later and I'm still frigging around with this retarded fan wiring.

    What's been happening is the fan has continually worked ok, but over the course of a half an hour or so of driving I get the smell of overheated wiring, the smell of MELTING plastic insulation that covers the wires.
    This is not a good sign, I get the impression that the next step is the dashboard catching fire!

    I don't like this. It seems to be fan related because if I stop the fan completely the smell goes away.
    The blower seems to be drawing too many amps.
    I don't know why a motor would suddenly begin to increase it's amps required, to the point that the wiring overheats.
    I've never had this with other cars.
    I'm going to have to get into it again and check everything. I don't want to pull the whole dash out. The blower motor is easy enough to get out. I'll have to check the speed control, and I cant find the speed resistor module. The actual location of the blower Earth point would be handy.
    I have a spare blower fan from the wrecker, I might have to dismantle and check it, and give it a try.
    Did you get yours sorted out?

    Cheers...George 1/8th.

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    JBN
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    No George. I haven't sorted mine out. I have managed to avoid the smell of overheating wires by leaving the blower fan disconnected, as most of the places on the fuse box that I attempted to get power from melted.

    I find rolling the windows down is fairly effective at preventing heat exhaustion (at least for me). My wife always complains that we have no aircon or demister, but she always finds something to complain about anyhow. At least having our pet elephant in the room means that I always know what the argument is going to be about. I tell her my solution is to drive faster to get more air pressure through the plenum chamber, but she is not a very good driver and is scared of high speeds.

    One day I will remove the chevrons and Citroen signs and take it into a Toyota dealer's workshop and ask them to fix the aircon. They'll probably throw in some new Toyota bits and pieces, charge like a wounded bull, but I will end up with something that works reliably for the life of the car.

    Did you realise that the reason they stopped using the term "French letter" and replaced it with "condom" is that the customer wanted something that was guaranteed to work.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    Hi John,
    it's almost a year later and I'm still frigging around with this retarded fan wiring.

    What's been happening is the fan has continually worked ok, but over the course of a half an hour or so of driving I get the smell of overheated wiring, the smell of MELTING plastic insulation that covers the wires.
    This is not a good sign, I get the impression that the next step is the dashboard catching fire!

    I don't like this. It seems to be fan related because if I stop the fan completely the smell goes away.
    The blower seems to be drawing too many amps.
    I don't know why a motor would suddenly begin to increase it's amps required, to the point that the wiring overheats.
    I've never had this with other cars.
    I'm going to have to get into it again and check everything. I don't want to pull the whole dash out. The blower motor is easy enough to get out. I'll have to check the speed control, and I cant find the speed resistor module. The actual location of the blower Earth point would be handy.
    I have a spare blower fan from the wrecker, I might have to dismantle and check it, and give it a try.
    Did you get yours sorted out?

    Cheers...George 1/8th.
    Loved the anti-tank vs camera technician chat!

    My series 1 Xantia got a new ignition switch at 7 years (10 years ago), under the secondhand car warranty that applied when I bought the year before (2002 I think). It then got the factory-recommended relay fitting, by the book. I've had no problems since.

    However, at the time, there was just a hint of hot plastic smell, and it didn't go away immediately. I don't smell it now. But it was never strong. I am a tad sensitive to electrical smells since an unforgettable Garuda flight with an aircraft full of electrical smoke just after take-off.

    I suspect that you are both dealing with things that would have been fine if addressed the right way in the first place by former owners. Makes it hard when you are fixing other people's bodges.

    We've had no other electrical problems with the Xantia either (nor with the family-related Peugeot 306).

    Best wishes with the whole business. For the record, there is NO chance that my wife would accept non-functioning A/C. This is partly a consequence of her putting up with our living for two years in Kenya near the equator, at sea level without AC in anything. She has a point I reckon.
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    Jambo, John. Yesterday I was selling car raffle tickets for a kids cancer charity in a shopping centre.

    I saw this young Masai guy - tall, dark and handsome, repleat with braids and shiny bits in the hair and the ears. He is over here for a while in the company of a young lady who works for some charity organisation in Kenya. The first time I saw him some months ago, I yelled out "Jambo!" and they came over. We had a chat. He bought a ticket.

    Yesterday I again greeted him. Communication was generally smiles as I don't speak Swahili and he doesn't speak English. His minder said he was not very happy because he hasn't won a car yet. I left it to her to try to get him to understand the vagaries of games of chance.

    In 1975 I travelled through Kenya. Worked as an extra on a movie being filmed at Lake Naivasha, starring Stanley Baker of Zulu fame. I don't think it was ever released. Stan the man died of heart disease the following year. My wife and I fondly remember pleasant conversations with him and his wife and 14 year old son.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Jambo, John. Yesterday I was selling car raffle tickets for a kids cancer charity in a shopping centre.

    I saw this young Masai guy - tall, dark and handsome, repleat with braids and shiny bits in the hair and the ears. He is over here for a while in the company of a young lady who works for some charity organisation in Kenya. The first time I saw him some months ago, I yelled out "Jambo!" and they came over. We had a chat. He bought a ticket.

    Yesterday I again greeted him. Communication was generally smiles as I don't speak Swahili and he doesn't speak English. His minder said he was not very happy because he hasn't won a car yet. I left it to her to try to get him to understand the vagaries of games of chance.

    In 1975 I travelled through Kenya. Worked as an extra on a movie being filmed at Lake Naivasha, starring Stanley Baker of Zulu fame. I don't think it was ever released. Stan the man died of heart disease the following year. My wife and I fondly remember pleasant conversations with him and his wife and 14 year old son.

    John
    Jambo John. Habari gani? Una fanya nini?

    We lived in Malindi 1978-80. Lovely if you like equatorial holidays. We stayed once in a tented camp at Lake Naivasha - what a lovely area it is through from Nakuru, Nyeri etc.

    You didn't meet an elderly man named Bill Ryan did you? He did a lot of work on films in Kenya, getting animals to eat Land-Rovers and that sort of thing. He was our landlord in Malindi.

    There was a DS in Malindi. I didn't know cars could retain their shape with so much structural rust. It was awesome....

    Good luck with the Xantia wiring.

    Kwaheri.
    JohnW

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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi John, and the other John, both with Xantias, with fan issues. Hi also to any other Xantia owners with similar problems.
    OK, here's my latest update on what has been happening. These cars have good wiring, and pretty good design in most departments, however, for some reason the heater fan motor begins to draw excessive current.
    There are several theories regarding why this happens, from the motor itself getting shorted winding circuits, to the motor getting wet at some stage, etc. What happens is that if the blower motor begins to draw too much current the wires overheat, causing the melting wire insulation smells, and eventually possible catching fire. The plastic moulding base in my original ignition switch had begun to melt with the heat, and the wiring coating was looking like it had been often melted, so it was discoloured. This is not good, and not healthy either.
    I got a second hand series 1 ignition switch, dismantled it, cleaned it, reassembled it. Made sure I fitted a 30 amp relay, so as the current does not go through the ignition switch again. This does seem to make a difference, but it does not address the problem.
    I swapped the blower motor over for a newer one, which seems to work better, blow harder, and draw less current. I'm not sure if it's a windings thing or a bearing thing. I cleaned the commutator, put a small drop of light oil on each bearing, and things seem a bit better. I still haven't found the actual black wire earth point, in order to check it.
    I have ordered new motor brushes from the UK to be fitted as soon as they arrive, hopefully in a few weeks. I'm hoping the combination of a new (S/H) motor and new brushes will do the trick.
    The blower motor is a Siemens, probably the same as you would get in a BMW or VW. The brushes are 8x9mm by 22 mm. They should get here in a few weeks. The local electrical supplier had similar ones for $27.00 a pair, these were about $15.00 including postage. I can wait.
    Cheers...George 1/8th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    Hi John, and the other John, both with Xantias, with fan issues. Hi also to any other Xantia owners with similar problems.
    OK, here's my latest update on what has been happening. These cars have good wiring, and pretty good design in most departments, however, for some reason the heater fan motor begins to draw excessive current.
    Thanks for sharing George. Dry bearings would have the effect of less grunt and more power demand I'm sure.

    Interestingly our similar Peugeot 306 destroyed its control panel for the heater fan, perhaps 15 years ago (just out of warranty!). Since then the new one has been fine, the fan fine and the climate control (AC/heating) is always on. So 18 years of running for that fan. I think that is quite impressive.

    Unrelated but amusing, in a way, our Xantia is in hospital for trimming as the entire roof lining fabric dropped onto my head last week on the way to a concert. It happened quite suddenly and it is fully detached from its base except around the edges. The auto-upholsterer didn't blink. "They all do it mate. Fabric was a bit too heavy. We always replace it with.......". I guess 17 years is beyond the average life span of a modern car. Well I think the Xantia is modern. It has climate control AC after all.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    So if my climate control is not working, the headlining should last forever?

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    So if my climate control is not working, the headlining should last forever?

    John
    JohnW

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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Another thing,
    I was talking to an experienced auto electrician guy, he said that it was likely to be a faulty , dirty or loose earth connection from the blower motor to the earth. So, I added a 50 amp black wire from the blower motor earth wire to a new earth connection. It was not difficult. I will report if I have a continued problem after this simple little addition. Rather than hunting around inaccessible places for impossible to find earth points, just adding a new earth should ensure a better circuit, in theory anyway.
    Cheers...George 1/8th.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    I went on a fairly long drive today, the blower was going strong the entire way, it was a warm day today about 26 deg. No sign of any overheated wiring smells at all. This is great, the added earth wire seems to have done the trick. It's amazing how such a little simple earth wire can make such a difference.
    So, anyone with the same problem, just add another wire from the blower motor Black wire connection and make a secure earth connection.

    Cheers...George 1/8th.

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    JBN
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    Damn! I earthed my blower by digging a 6' hole and burying it.

    I don't get a burnt wire smell, but I don't get any air into the cabin either.

    John

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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Damn! I earthed my blower by digging a 6' hole and burying it.

    I don't get a burnt wire smell, but I don't get any air into the cabin either.

    John
    Hi John, I have seen cars going down the street with one wire scraping on the ground. I was told it was to remove static electricity. Mobile static electricity, an oxymoron.
    Has your fan stopped completely? You possibly don't need it if you have a large hole for that earth wire. I guess it depends on how fast you drive.
    Cheers...George 1/8th.

  20. #20
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I have here, a set of new blower fan brushes for JBN to try putting in his fan motor. They've been under the right hand monitor for an age. The fans seem very sensitive to brush length.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I have here, a set of new blower fan brushes for JBN to try putting in his fan motor. They've been under the right hand monitor for an age. The fans seem very sensitive to brush length.
    Hi ADDO, with any luck that might just be the thing that gets John's fan going again. I still haven't found where the original fan earth is on these cars. It's just faster to bung in a new earth wire. The amps drain on this original fan motor was so high that it overheated the entire circuit and almost melted the ignition switch. You could smell melting wire coatings, and the copper in these 50amp wires goes dark from overheating. The ignition switch contacts were being overloaded as well, and needed dismantling and cleaning. I replaced the ignition switch , the wire connection block at the fan end of the wire, the earth connection, the motor brushes etc.
    It's nice and working well now without the high amp drain.
    cheers...George 1/8th.

  22. #22
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I have here, a set of new blower fan brushes for JBN to try putting in his fan motor. They've been under the right hand monitor for an age. The fans seem very sensitive to brush length.
    Addo, please send a PM with you mobile number and we can arrange a place and time. I also have some LHM and harness bits for you.

    John

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