What year early ID 19 has most vehicles on the road?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Default What year early ID 19 has most vehicles on the road?

    Has anyone got to hand collected data to cast light on the question, what year early ID 19 is most represented in 2012 on Australian roads? My anecdotal punt is '62 and cars closely either side of this. Does the Paas survey inform us?

    If this is the case, is this a fluke or is there something about these years?

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    Tim

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
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    Yes, 1962 was the year that Hamish McFardle worked on the chassis line and he has been quoted as saying that he and his mate Peter P gave those cars a double helping of paint when they could. So, perhaps more 1962 survivors?

    'Ach, Aye laddie, lashings of darkest black. A double helping of paint everywhere when I was on that line with Peter P in '62.'
    Hamish McFardle, 1997, The Heidelberg Herald


    ...and it's not even April yet!

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    If there was a 'Heidelberg Herald' I would know about it!

    Tim

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Here's what I put on the other thread ....

    I think there is a few relatively rust free survivors .... simply because people that own citroens are complete total and utter nutters. So when the cars breaks down for any reason .... They park it in there shed and refuse to sell the car .................... Fast forward 20->30years and the family gets rid of the car when said nutter dies/gets put into care etc .... At which point we have a car that's NOT been even wet for 30years (which seems to be the truth with both the car in my shed, and that white '62 given the way the ebay advert reads).

    The reason more '62s likely survive .... Is they would have been worthless to sell.... 20years ago, who wanted a ID19 let alone one without power brakes .... SO they were probably more likely to be left in sheds rather than sold (as they weren't worth anything to sell). Just a set of tyres for an ID19 has cost more than any 5 cars combined were worth puts it into perspective.

    However..... Even just a couple of years sitting in the weather with grass growing through them (which would be the end of 95% of them IMO ) and the car will be a rusted out heap of junk. They simply cannot be left outside "stored" in the weather.... it's a death sentence to them.

    This is even the case with the later cars. My father is slowly tidying up his '75 DS23ie ..... and the panels on the car need quite a lot of work (this was obvious when he bought the car). Imagine the surprise when we checked his original DSpecial that we always thought had "average" at best panels and found they were perfect and rust free.................... The reason ?? That DSpecial though rough and tired when he parked it up, hasn't been wet in 25years..... so has 25year less rust/moisture damage than the panels on other D's.

    Really IMO it has nothing to do with the year of the car. These cars all rusted something shocking. It's just a select few ended up parked in sheds for many years un-used. HRH is probably the only ID19 in Australia that's been looked after and used/garaged from almost new.... And it shows!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    The question is why are the 62 cars more represented, if indeed that is the case. '62 of course has the power brake - late 61 in fact as Kaz' car attests...Obviously continuous ownership delivers the best cars, but that's another question. So firstly can a data savvy enthusiast check what we know about these years and current road-going IDs and suggest why there might be more road-going 62s than say 65 / 66? Just curious but I was struck by the Stats on the 5Oth Anniversay run - 7/8 odd 62 models was a stand out...a fluke? If not, what is some good logic there?

    Tim
    Last edited by Middlemoon.1; 23rd January 2012 at 12:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Every ID19 that finds me is '63 and '64, so I would personally have said they seem to be the most common.

    There's a little here on production numbers:

    http://www.denmarkwa.biz/citroen/ID19/

    I reckon the truth is..... 62 & 63 probably had the highest number of cars built and sold So we have ended up with more of these models 50years later.

    As for exact numbers left today ... Who knows Kimmo has an ID too. His would be a '63 though?

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Kimmo has I believe....you guessed it, a 62 (pretty certain first nose). Not one of the Anniversary run cars. Yes I wonder if it's about sheer production numbers? My recollections are a bit old on road-going 62 Parisienne IDs, but 5 years ago there were about 10 across the country, and a similar number being 'done-up'.

    Tim

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post
    Kimmo has I believe....you guessed it, a 62 (pretty certain first nose). Not one of the Anniversary run cars. Yes I wonder if it's about sheer production numbers? My recollections are a bit old on road-going 62 Parisienne IDs, but 5 years ago there were about 10 across the country, and a similar number being 'done-up'.

    Tim
    Production numbers is my guess. By '66 everyone would have wanted power steering and LHM (which the local cars were not).

    Kimmo's is 2nd nose (so 63 -> 66). Maybe it's a later one? I can't tell in the piccies. The three here are 63's

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Damn I must have confused Kimmo's car...was it Tasmanian? Shane do you have a pic of it? Who was cleaning up a first nose from Tassie with a red/white interior? I'm worried about this brain of mine and I have to go back to work in a week! All I can find about production numbers is that they were fairly stable around 200 - 300 in the early sixties between 61 and 65?

    Tim

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Nah, I'd need to get his permission to upload the piccies (there off his facebook page). It looks like it may have been a green... or white car (the roof is white). I'm sure Kimmo will post a piccie when he sees this thread.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Yeah Ok - the one I'm thinking was pale blue I think - I was speaking to him about his red/white interior...agh....came from Tassie a few years ago - there were Aussiefrog pics of the trailer journey - lot of work needed but pretty original. Intention was to fix up but not straight away....Apologies to this person...for confusing them!

    Tim

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Addos car from Tassie ? He hasn't been on here for ages. The thread would have been lost in the crash.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Yes that's it! Addo / Kimmo - see what I mean...that was a 62. wonder how it's going...?

    Tim

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I think Addo just stuck it in a shed that he has out in regional NSW somewhere with his falcons. I'm sure he'll tune in and spot this thread at some point I seem to recall it was a 1st nose car too.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
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    We have two early 1960 models on full rego in NSW, both french built and 6 volt.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Now that's what I call style! Love to see a pic if poss...Had them for long time?

  17. #17
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehari James View Post
    We have two early 1960 models on full rego in NSW, both french built and 6 volt.
    Nice!

    I wonder whether they are the oldest ID19s on the road in Australia.

    My 1959 DS19 is the only 1950s Dee I know of that is currently on the road in Australia. Are there any others?

    Roger

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Roger your reflections on 8 62 Ids at 50th anniversary please...

    Tim

  19. #19
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Nice!

    I wonder whether they are the oldest ID19s on the road in Australia.

    My 1959 DS19 is the only 1950s Dee I know of that is currently on the road in Australia. Are there any others?

    Roger
    Isn't there a '57 kicking around in W.A. ?
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    There would be a few 50's D's very close to being on the road. LHS2 has the one he had the rear of pictured a few weeks ago that's possibly close.

    Just don't drive Rogers DS19 ............. No ID comes close once you have driven a DS I can't imagine any other car in the world that would be remotely similar to a DS19 to drive

    I count myself as incredibly lucky to have just *driven* the only three road registered DS19's that have been on the road in Australia over the last decade.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  21. #21
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Speaking of DS 19's, what happened to John Brennan and his Bluebell?
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  22. #22
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Tim, your schoolmasterly instincts are kicking in a week early!

    Until this one, I had never owned a first front D. I did a lot of miles in a 1963 Slough ID19 in New Zealand, and always appreciated the power brake mushroom. I thought earlier ID19's had dodgy brake systems, which made me uneasy about owning one.

    Then I learned about DS19's and decided that if I were going to own an early D (and I did like early ones) then I would try to own a DS19 rather than an ID19. I still didn't really think about a first nose DS19. After 10,000 miles in 4-1/2 months I was starting to form a bond with my 1963 DS19 when it destroyed itself in front of me. The best DS19 available was the 1959 one I have now. So began my ownership of first nose Dees.

    Would I own any ID now? Probably not, as I have been spoilt by DSes, though an early safari might tempt me. Would I own another DS? Absolutely, but I would keep the one I have.

    I think it is good there is some interest in early Dees, as it helps keep them on the road. It doesn't really concern me what year they are.

    Roger

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Thanks Roger I can well understand what you say about your car. My query is not trying to uncover the oldest/best/most desirable etc etc. Like you if it's an early d, I'm pretty keen. Given there are so few early d's on the road, I'm just curious as to why the first of the power brake Parisiennes are so- relatively speaking - well represented. Going by the variety of responses here i'm thinking others aren't as curious as me. That's ok...I'm up late cos Hewit's doing bloody well!

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts dogboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    Speaking of DS 19's, what happened to John Brennan and his Bluebell?
    John sold Bluebell
    someone on Aussiefrogs (in Tassis) reported buying an early D recently....pretty sure it was Johns
    Rev. Dogboy


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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Out of curiousity which is the oldest heidelburg ID still on the road - could it be ours????

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