A good way to loose money
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 46
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    brisbane Au
    Posts
    927

    Default A good way to loose money

    Got a shock today concerning the price of my 2003-2004 C5 Hdi. New it was sold by the dealer as a 2004, the manufacturer's plate says 2003, so naturally when it comes time to sell, it's a 2003. So that's another thing to watch at purchase time. Don't believe the bullcrap about it being first time Aust rego.
    But to my point, got the red book price from several different web sites, all said $4000 top, for a 2003 C5 Hdi with under 100,000 ks on the clock. So anybody looking for a C5 should bear that price in mind. Don't pay the exorbitant prices asked for some of them. At that price it surely wouldn't pay to say, overhaul a major component like a transmission or engine, you'd count your losses and sell for whatever you can get No wonder there's been a couple of very cheap C5s with blown trannies on flea bay as late.
    It's insurance time for me, hence the price checking, and something to watch for, market value against fixed price, vast differance. With market value, if it's written off I'll get around $3400 less costs, there's always costs. What can you buy for that? A cheap old Toyota, at least that won't loose any more value. Why do we throw money away like this?
    Beats me, but we keep on keepin' on don't we?.
    I think I'll hang on to Kenny and see how low his price goes [ future man says "She's a runner, $50 drive away, 6 months rego with 4 tyres"].

    Advertisement
    Last edited by shanadoo; 19th January 2012 at 07:33 PM. Reason: overstate

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    Not what I found at Redbook for a 2003 model HDI hatch, being:
    * Private Price Guide $6,200 - $7,900
    * Trade In Price Guide $3,900 - $5,600
    * Average Km 90,000 - 160,000 (Which seems a bit low to me.)
    * Price When New $45,750*

    It makes major work hard to justify on economic grounds. However, if you had a clean example and it needed just the gearbox, then it would make sense to do the job if you were happy to keep the car. If not, then it's time to trade!

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    it's a shame you can't do a gearbox conversion on them and stick a decent manual gearbox in there. A low milage HDi (or even v6) without the problematic gearboxes would probably be quite a reasonable car to drive without the huge question mark of gearboxes hanging over your head.

    Yeah I know you can buy a 2litre petrol with a manual gearbox .... a weeny little 2litre petrol motor dragging a big heavy C5 around isn't what you'd call appealing though.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    The 2.0 petrol manual is really quite OK to drive, totally different to the same car with an automatic. There are a few S1 manuals about, but I've only ever seen two S2 C5 manuals - one being a low km silver car (which I was able to drive) and the other, the Ganache (black/burgundy) one for sale at the moment.

    The manual conversion would not be impossible, but I think there are wiring harness issues that might be difficult to deal with. As far as I know the car's network bus runs via the auto gearbox ECU and you'd have to find a way around that. I think the architecture changed in later C5's, so it may be easier as the various modules are not all in series, but this will be the main issue to overcome. The actual nuts and bolts would be easy enough if you have the kit of parts. The car also needs to be told it's now a manual, which is possibly as simple as setting configuration parameters. Not impossible, but it requires a bit of thought. You'd be after a C5 with a dead tranny and a Pug with the donor gearbox parts I expect.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ronhic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    450

    Default

    I really do feel your pain.

    Having worked for Esanda in both wholesale (dealer floorplan) and retail finance in a past life, the number of people caught by end of year run-out fever is incredible. Basically, you need to save 15% or it isn't worth it and even then it's questionable.

    On another note, we've just ordered a new Skoda Superb and have insisted that it's a 2012 build and weve advised we'll reject it at delivery if it isnt.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NORTH PERTH W.A.
    Posts
    825

    Icon11 smart people buy old

    But then maybe not when I look at the shit that surrounds me
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    The compliance date can be a long time after the build date, but most people would go off the compliance date. That can be a trap, but I guess it depends on who is doing the checking and whether they can find the build plate/sticker. It's normally a separate plate/sticker and can be located in obscure locations. Most people would not realise that the usual model year runs September to August. So, 2012 model year cars have been built from last September. If you can play the game of a January car being worth much more than a preceding December car, although identical, then you can save money if you are persuasive enough. 2012 build is of course different to a 2012 MY car built in 2011 with a 2012 compliance date!

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    427

    Default Trade in's

    sad but true, and they only plummet in price.

    Less than a year ago, there was an article on the C6 in Unique Cars.

    Somebody with a car that has about 80000 ks being offered a grade of $14000.

    How is that.

    I have purchased two new or demo Citroens where the trade has been "assisted" by Citroen or ATECO.

    The best example was my 99 Xsara being traded for 18 grand in 2002. It was 1.8 and auto, 80ks.

    After the C5 v6 did my brain in, I traded for a BMW, and it was worth as a trade one year after purchasing for 20k, ten grand. After clocking up eight and a half grand, plus a hail damage excess in that period.

    In one year purchase for 20, sell for $13250, pay out eight and a half grand on repairs, and an insurance excess for $550. That has to be some loss.

    New cars are not a great investment, and we all need to be prepared to write them off at some point.

    Let your car go, but try t get more for it on the private market.

    My suggestion would be to give it a few weeks, or even put up right now for a few grand more than they are trading for, and whatever you get that is more than they offer you is a bonus, and sought out a non trade price as well. Before it is too late.

    Chris M

  9. #9
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,159

    Icon3

    Quote Originally Posted by qmusic View Post
    After the C5 v6 did my brain in, I traded for a BMW, and it was worth as a trade one year after purchasing for 20k, ten grand. After clocking up eight and a half grand, plus a hail damage excess in that period.

    In one year purchase for 20, sell for $13250, pay out eight and a half grand on repairs, and an insurance excess for $550. That has to be some loss.

    Chris M
    Hi Chris,
    I have to tell the other side of your story
    We bought our 2002 HDi as an ex demo in 2002, you met the car a few years back in Hervey Bay. We still have it and have no reason to move it on in the foreseeable future.

    In that time it has had only minor problems - A/C fan unit which cost a couple of hundred dollars and if it were to fail again I know can be fixed for around $20.00 as a DIY job, Radiator fan twice, I have now replaced with a generic $90.00 jobby that has outlasted the original 2 Citroen fans. Gear shift plastic clip thingy that cost $20.00, and a crank pulley about $250.00 for the part.

    It has never had spheres gassed but still rides like new, the aircon has never been gassed and is still icy cool. I know I should bite my tongue and touch wood but the transmission has been absolutely faultless. The engine has never given a hint of trouble, turn the key and it fires up first time every time and pulls like a train - loves hills

    We have done routine services which now has included timing/axillary belts tensioners and water pump (done at the same time as the crank pulley), maybe three sets of tyres with the current set good for a while yet.

    Mrs GB loves it and always has, which in itself is a bonus

    If it were to have a major fault now, I think we could be philosophical and say it gave us good service for the last 10 years, performed most of it's requirements and was indeed very good value for money. I have no idea what would/could replace it, we love the hatch so the current C5 would be ruled out, maybe a wagon?

    We would possibly just look out for a $5000.00 HDi and take our chances

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by qmusic View Post
    sad but true, and they only plummet in price.

    Less than a year ago, there was an article on the C6 in Unique Cars.

    Somebody with a car that has about 80000 ks being offered a grade of $14000.

    How is that.


    Chris M
    This is in the UK right? I've never seen a "cheapish" C6 for sale in Australia .... Infact I don't think there has ever been one of
    the market for less than $50,000. They seem to be holding value far better than BMW/Mercedes/Audi/etc.....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    I know of one C6 that changed hands privately a while back for just under $50 with almost 100K on it, but the least expensive one I can recall advertised is the black one from the east of Sydney that's been on offer for some time for $45K. A few others have appeared at a little bit more. There's probably nothing wrong with it and it all looks legit, but I think he's advertised it badly. An oddball was the petrol V6 on offer on Sydney's Lower North Shore a few years back at $55K and that was one of the original three ex-show cars from 2005. Any dealer offering $14K as a trade is low-balling in the extreme and an owner would have to be desperate, stupid or disinterested to accept. Almost all are 2.7 HDi's and the later 3 litre versions are exceptionally rare in Australia and will attract a premium.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    gold coast queensland
    Posts
    4,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronhic View Post
    I really do feel your pain.

    Having worked for Esanda in both wholesale (dealer floorplan) and retail finance in a past life, the number of people caught by end of year run-out fever is incredible. Basically, you need to save 15% or it isn't worth it and even then it's questionable.

    On another note, we've just ordered a new Skoda Superb and have insisted that it's a 2012 build and weve advised we'll reject it at delivery if it isnt.
    You aint seen nothing yet.......just wait till you want to trade the Skoda!

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brisbane Qld
    Posts
    19,945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkev414 View Post
    You aint seen nothing yet.......just wait till you want to trade the Skoda!
    They are well regarded and have a good reputation in Scandinavia and are seen as budget VW's. Time will tell in relation to resale values

  14. #14
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    They are well regarded and have a good reputation in Scandinavia and are seen as budget VW's. Time will tell in relation to resale values
    Everything I've read about Skodas over the last 10 years has been quite positive. It's a shame we don't get those here, either- I'd love to check one out as a replacement for my thoroughly battered Taurus wagon. I've completely given up on ever seeing a factory-fresh Citroen here in the US again.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Ronhic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkev414 View Post
    You aint seen nothing yet.......just wait till you want to trade the Skoda!
    Unlike our current car, this one is a long term proposition and is unlikely to be traded before it's 10 years old. Additionally, the market is starting to realise just what a good car they are. In the European car capital that is Canberra (and a fairly different market to most of the country, I grant you), Skoda outsold BMW last month for the first time since launch and they are far from uncommon.

    Plus, with Australians finally waking up to the advantages of diesel cars, this one is a desirable combination of almost Commodore sized diesel, DSG auto and wagon with nothing else in the market that size to compete against. By the time we're ready to sell, we won't have trouble shifting it at all.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    427

    Default C6

    Shane and others,

    There was an article about six months again on the used buying prospects on C6.

    It was horrifying to say the least.

    Cars on the market for around that 50 grand were actually being traded mid teens.

    They were coming off leases, going to dealers in NSW and in other parts of AUS with generally about 80ks on the clock, and in top order.

    So the article advised not to pay too much for them, and mentioned a series of this to look out for.

    If I have time later and still have the magazine, shall put up a fresh post with some quotes.

    I remember when we purchased our C4 from a Citroen dealer, I asked him if he had traded any c6 cars lately, and that was in 2009. He said that they HAD at that point traded a car less than two years old with a retail value of close to 70 grand, for mid 40's.

    I would also suspect that there would be healthy reserves left in the repair kitty for a car like these.

    Greenblood, that C5 sounds brilliant and I reckon it will continue to give you good service. When I let of of my four cylinder which I had purchased new for about 45 grand, and the ca has 120ks on it and I got $7500 back on 09, weird messages were appearing on the display like boot open when it was firmly locked. My dealer said that was typically a sign that the computer was on the way out.

    Point taken about keeping a cheap car at that point though and I believe that a good one is worth it's weight in old.

    chris m

  17. #17
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic.
    Posts
    16

    Default Yep....

    C6's in the trade are max. 20's not uncommon for any make of vehicle dealers hold a lot of stock and buy at a price were if it doesn't sell they run it through the auctions for a small profit/money back.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,657

    Default

    I hate loose money. Always preferable to tie it down firmly, lest it be blown away.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    brisbane Au
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Not what I found at Redbook for a 2003 model HDI hatch, being:
    * Private Price Guide $6,200 - $7,900
    * Trade In Price Guide $3,900 - $5,600
    * Average Km 90,000 - 160,000 (Which seems a bit low to me.)
    * Price When New $45,750*

    It makes major work hard to justify on economic grounds. However, if you had a clean example and it needed just the gearbox, then it would make sense to do the job if you were happy to keep the car. If not, then it's time to trade!
    Private sale should bring more is right, but it's still not much. Nine years loss= around $40,000 And trade in price depends on how much you're willing to spend on your new set of wheels. Mind you Citroen do not have a monopoly on such losses. I blame Gillard [why not]

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    brisbane Au
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronhic View Post
    I really do feel your pain.

    Having worked for Esanda in both wholesale (dealer floorplan) and retail finance in a past life, the number of people caught by end of year run-out fever is incredible. Basically, you need to save 15% or it isn't worth it and even then it's questionable.

    On another note, we've just ordered a new Skoda Superb and have insisted that it's a 2012 build and weve advised we'll reject it at delivery if it isnt.
    Damn fine automobile in my opinion. The Skoda of yesteryear here in Aus was much underrated.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    brisbane Au
    Posts
    927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    I hate loose money. Always preferable to tie it down firmly, lest it be blown away.
    Arrr hate thart be rite an all.
    But I have no intention of off loading the C5 diesel, it's got 97,000 Ks, mag wheels, is well sorted, goes really well, the 2ltr engine is smooth and revs very nicely with good power, the body is well kept and touch wood, I've had no problems for many a year. Except Air con which I eventually sorted as being a rotten Citroen connector, job done.

    The point is insurance, agreed value is the way to go, market value could leave you with empty pockets and no vehicle.
    All we need is for the dealers to get off their arses and sell more Cits, improve their popularity and that'll improve the resale price. People will buy the most popular item whatever it is.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Private sale should bring more is right, but it's still not much. Nine years loss= around $40,000 And trade in price depends on how much you're willing to spend on your new set of wheels. Mind you Citroen do not have a monopoly on such losses. I blame Gillard [why not]
    It happens to almost every car because they are strictly a wasting asset.

    Even keeping a car a long time can still prove costly. Mid-90's LS400 cost about $160K new and struggled to $7K last year with only 65K on the clock. Expensive motoring per km there! No doubt there are more expensive examples, but it's still a lot of depreciation to wear.

    For anyone thinking it's an error, this C6 on CarSales is in fact a very early build petrol V6:
    http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...1&sort=default

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    canberra
    Posts
    276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    I hate loose money. Always preferable to tie it down firmly, lest it be blown away.

    Ahhh this is where the BX kicks in...buy them for next to nothing....fix a few cheap issues on them...and you have a true classic...that is all pleasurable to drive, cheap to own, and has character to turn heads and stand out... viva la BX...

  24. #24
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bxornot2bx View Post
    Ahhh this is where the BX kicks in...buy them for next to nothing....fix a few cheap issues on them...and you have a true classic...that is all pleasurable to drive, cheap to own, and has character to turn heads and stand out... viva la BX...
    Funny, I was thinking that as I refitted a trim strip to the BX this afternoon. And my Xantia, at 75K km, 16 years old and in pretty well perfect condition would be fixed even if the repairs cost more than the value of the car. The real issue is the cost of a reliable replacement vehicle and having to go through the pain of organising it. Why buy anything at all? I have looked and my "1996" Xantia was indeed built in 1995, but I bought it with 50% depreciation in cost and very low km.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    Citroën CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  25. #25
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,863

    Default

    Eh - I paid 7k for my 406, 6 years ago with 115k on the clock. Now its over 200k, and probably worth less than half that.

    I consider i've had my "value" out of the car - minimal running costs. Shame that the market value of the car, makes expensive repairs somewhat voided - as it's still a bloody good car!
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •