Sensodrive or Fuel Injection
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Sensodrive or Fuel Injection

    Hi,

    I think this issue has been discussed already. I am just awaiting the bad news from the Mechanic. I was driving my C3 Senso yesterday, stopped at lights ( I drive it in Manual mode), Took off in 1st gear, then went to 2nd, then went up to 3rd,, And car not happy, over revved and stayed in 2nd, I tried to get it up again, it starting shaking and carrying on and the ENGINE warning light came on so I pulled over. Tried to start up again, and shaking etc. Called RACQ, absolutely hopeless, he had no idea, So i got it towed to Cartwright Motors at Southport ( Euro Car service). Now i am just waiting and feeling the pinch, I have read about Coil issues, and Fuel Injections etc, The car is great and No issues whatsoever, so this is completely out of the blue.. Any ideas???
    Thanks in advance

    Lisa

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
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    The RACQ would not see a lot of Sensodrive cars, so it's not a big surprise the patrolman didn't know about it. It's likely to be a single fault if the problem happened suddenly. If the engine was running on only 3 cylinders, then you'd suspect either an injector or the coilpack rather than a gearbox problem. If the gearbox can't select gears, then it could be any of the clutch actuator, gear selection actuator or even an internal fault in the gearbox. If you can select all the gears, then it's less likely to be a gearbox issue, although the clutch actuator could have suddenly slipped on it's mountings and therefore out of adjustment. As the gearbox apparently didn't lock itself in two gears at once, it's probably not an internal problem.

    The main consideration is to have someone that knows the Sensodrive system work on the car. Mechanics without adequate knowledge and the factory diagnostic tools can potentially cost the owner the value of the car over again when the repair may really be a lot less expensive. It is sometimes possible to dismantle, clean and lubricate the clutch and gear actuators, including the motors, rather than simply going down the expensive replacement route. That's a job for a dealer with adequate experience.

  3. #3
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Certainly take it to an expert only. Others that go poking about will cost you a fortune. When my injectors "failed" that car was running on 3 cylinders and making a shaking feel. Were you washing your windscreen a bit before all this occured? It is known that the positioning of the tube on the bonnet leaks onto the top of injectors. It happened to me twice.

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    THanks, there has been alot of heavy rain on the Gold Coast lately, so the leak through the bonnet is plausible. The Mechanic briefly spoke of this issue.But said he will check the fault codes and have a good look today then let me know. Fingers crossed.... I have read horror stories of repair costs on C3.Guess I have been lucky only paying $300 per year in service costs with no probs thus far.

  5. #5
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    When my injectors failed it was about a $1500 job including Labor.

  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney View Post
    When my injectors failed it was about a $1500 job including Labor.
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    was that for the first one that played up ?
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  8. #8
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    From memory yes. I nearly collapsed when the bill came in.

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney View Post
    From memory yes. I nearly collapsed when the bill came in.
    i wouldn't have collapsed, i would have asked how his tropical island holiday went that you obviously funded
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  10. #10
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Yes I thought about that but from memory the parts were the main costs.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger
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    While dealers have some leeway with prices, they don't get a lot of room to move as their buy prices are determined by Ateco. So, think of it as support for the fine sport of ocean racing!

    Alternative sources would include eBay vendors in the UK, GSF carparts (UK) and Dapco-AutoFrance in Sydney. Used is OK too.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    You think only Citroen have high parts price. A guy I work with has a Range Rover TDi. It started coughing and the car would not move nor idle. The current quote stands at $10,000 and it has not been fixed yet so could go higher. Caused by a little methanol contamination in the diesel fuel. Retail for the HP pump is $2100, but he has found a new one on eBay for $750. That means he could get it fixed for $8900 or so.

    I love my very simple CX
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    In the family

    Xantia SX

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney View Post
    Yes I thought about that but from memory the parts were the main costs.
    Gee's daniel, haven't you learnt anything on here .... You gotta research this stuff mate. A c3 injector is like $41.60aud .... postage will be nothing as it weighs nothing.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PETROL-FUE...6#ht_688wt_714

    If you can't change it yourself, I'm sure a local mechanic will do it for a bargain compared to $1500 which is just ludicrous. There's nothing complex about a weeny petrol motor and dodgy auto gearbox. Any mechanic in the world should be able to handle that!

    You haven't been charged that much multiple times have you (if I read this right ?). I don't get why moisture would damage an injector either way. Surely given the environment they live in, they would be impervious to water, did you try just cleaning the electrical connections ?.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  14. #14
    UFO
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    I think ongoing discussion of what has happened to someone else in the past is irrelevant and illogical in this thread. The point has already been made about alternate sources and prices for what has been assumed is the correct part to rectify the original poster's problem.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Gee's daniel, haven't you learnt anything on here .... You gotta research this stuff mate. A c3 injector is like $41.60aud .... postage will be nothing as it weighs nothing.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PETROL-FUE...6#ht_688wt_714

    If you can't change it yourself, I'm sure a local mechanic will do it for a bargain compared to $1500 which is just ludicrous. There's nothing complex about a weeny petrol motor and dodgy auto gearbox. Any mechanic in the world should be able to handle that!

    You haven't been charged that much multiple times have you (if I read this right ?). I don't get why moisture would damage an injector either way. Surely given the environment they live in, they would be impervious to water, did you try just cleaning the electrical connections ?.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    the words royally reamed come to my mind but hey, if people pay the bills then the workshops (loose term) will keep charging like wounded bulls

    how else do you think they rack up their frequent flyer points
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    the words royally reamed come to my mind but hey, if people pay the bills then the workshops (loose term) will keep charging like wounded bulls

    how else do you think they rack up their frequent flyer points
    Hang on ............ How long ago was this You know there may well have been no aftermarket sources for these parts if the car was new enough (however, surely warranty would have then covered the costs..... hmmmm).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger
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    Injectors can be damaged by corrosion of the electrical portion due to water getting past the seals. They are not as impervious to this as might be expected. Often, seals can swell if they are exposed to oil for a prolonged period and you'd see this most often on an engine harness or something like a power steering pressure sensor. In the C3, you can usually get away with replacing just the one injector, but there would have been many cases where a set of improved parts were fitted. I think Daniel's repair was a few years ago now, so there wouldn't have been quite the same easy aftermarket options at that time.

    Petrol injection parts are relatively inexpensive compared to diesel injection parts, so fuel contamination has in some cases caused very expensive damage. Priced a set of new diesel injectors lately? Ouch! Anyway, diesels may use less fuel, but if they go wrong, regardless of the manufacturer, they can be relatively expensive to put right. Many injection systems are bought in from Bosch, Siemens etc. so there are various means of dealing with problems. In Citroen cars, the diesel systems are very reliable and trouble free, with most problems down to blocked filters and related parts. As they become quite old, the injectors can lose calibration, but the software corrects for this by having an injector correction factor, which is allowed to be up to 9% as I recall. You get problems after this limit and need to look at changing injectors. So, if you have your own Proxia/Lexia tool, you can check this, but this is all rather off the topic of the C3 coil pack!

  18. #18
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Injectors can be damaged by corrosion of the electrical portion due to water getting past the seals. They are not as impervious to this as might be expected. Often, seals can swell if they are exposed to oil for a prolonged period and you'd see this most often on an engine harness or something like a power steering pressure sensor. In the C3, you can usually get away with replacing just the one injector, but there would have been many cases where a set of improved parts were fitted. I think Daniel's repair was a few years ago now, so there wouldn't have been quite the same easy aftermarket options at that time.

    Petrol injection parts are relatively inexpensive compared to diesel injection parts, so fuel contamination has in some cases caused very expensive damage. Priced a set of new diesel injectors lately? Ouch! Anyway, diesels may use less fuel, but if they go wrong, regardless of the manufacturer, they can be relatively expensive to put right. Many injection systems are bought in from Bosch, Siemens etc. so there are various means of dealing with problems. In Citroen cars, the diesel systems are very reliable and trouble free, with most problems down to blocked filters and related parts. As they become quite old, the injectors can lose calibration, but the software corrects for this by having an injector correction factor, which is allowed to be up to 9% as I recall. You get problems after this limit and need to look at changing injectors. So, if you have your own Proxia/Lexia tool, you can check this, but this is all rather off the topic of the C3 coil pack!
    David yes I'm talking over 5 years ago and the car fell just out of Warranty and i fought the dealer with no luck. I was bitten. I didn't look for aftermarket injectors at that time. If it happened again I certainly would. You do need special equipment from what I was told at the time to either change them or test them. I cant recall now.

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