2002 v6 citroen c5 - sudden engine failure
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default 2002 v6 citroen c5 - sudden engine failure

    Hi All,

    I had the misfortune of the engine suddenly cutting out on Monday afternoon.
    It was getting low on fuel - but the computer said another 65k left.
    5 litres added made no difference and the RAC serviceman injected 50ml of petrol into the intake manifiold.

    Car was taken home on a RAC flatbed truck.

    The breakdown serviceman found no input to the ignition coils - suspecting crankshaft or camshaft sensor failure.
    Haven't had a chance to do any systematic investigation and the Haynes manual doesn't include the V6 engine anyway.
    Strangely, there is no voltage present on either side of the fuel pump fuse with the ignition on.
    Is that normal, or is there a fuel pump relay before the fuse that could have failed?

    Any advice appreciated on the likely culprit.
    Where exactly are the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors located, I presume the crankshaft sensor to be picking up the flywheel.

    Cheers

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,668

    Default

    Is there a safety cutout switch in the engine bay somewhere that may have popped to the off position? If there is it may be a rubber block looking thing about 3cm square with a round top and indent. Could be on the driver's side of the engine bay back near the firewall (and I am only guessing as I do not have the same C5 as you).

    If you find it, push it and see if it clicks and then try the engine.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  3. #3
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    North Parramatta
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Is there a safety cutout switch in the engine bay somewhere that may have popped to the off position? If there is it may be a rubber block looking thing about 3cm square with a round top and indent. Could be on the driver's side of the engine bay back near the firewall (and I am only guessing as I do not have the same C5 as you).

    If you find it, push it and see if it clicks and then try the engine.
    For reference, the button UFO is referring to is the red one near the passenger side strut top in this pic:



    How are you checking voltage either side of the fuse?
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  4. #4
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    this happened to my mother last year in her 206

    it went to a service centre and they disconnected the battery to reset everything after checking various sensors and everything reset and it hasn't played up since

    that was around 6 months ago
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    48

    Default

    So does this mean there is a cutout system on C5 V6 Series 1 models (and perhaps on other models) that can kill the engine, without warning, based on a set of engine sensor readings? Sounds much like a windows Stop Error (aka Blue Screen of Death). How much redundancy and duplication is built into that particular system?

  6. #6
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Thanks UFO and SLC206 for your advice.
    However mine doesn't appear to hava a cutout near the firewall on either side - photos attached. Mine is a Jan 2002 build date.

    I also checked another vehicle on a used car lot last night - no voltage on either side of the fuel pump fuse with ignition on - so that can't be the problem.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2002 v6 citroen c5 - sudden engine failure-dscn1025.jpg   2002 v6 citroen c5 - sudden engine failure-dscn1026.jpg  

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    The car has a fault log and will record problems. Did the patrolman read the fault log? Most of them can, although they may have trouble interpreting some of the specifics. If there is no fuel pressure, it will have a low pressure fault and if there is an ignition fault, it would have one or more ignition fault codes.

    It should splutter before it stops if you are simply out of fuel. Was it a dead cut off or were there some symptoms beforehand? Have you run the fuel down that low before and were you on the flat or an incline? The tank sender may not be entirely accurate and if there is very little fuel in the tank and the tank is inclined, the pickup (on the right) can be left dry.

    Does the car lock and unlock normally? Have you tried the second remote / key?

    I assume it cranks easily. Does anything else electrical not work? Have you checked all the fuses?
    Last edited by David S; 5th January 2012 at 12:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Thanks David,

    No the RAC breakdown man didn't use any device to read fault codes - and had a little difficulty attaching a tell tale light to the coil leads to check for ignition pulses.

    Will check that again tonight - should get some indication on a small globe or multimeter.

    The vehicle stopped while travelling along a level road - and yes, it didn't seem like it ran out of fuel - done that before - you usually get some stuttering before it stops completely.

    Might put another 10 litres of PULP in tonight to make sure.

  9. #9
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Hi David,

    I lost the second key some time ago - I thought I would find it during a big clean-up - but no - one of the things to do is purchase another before I lose this one.

    Might try a new battery in the remote key.

    Doors unlock and lock OK, but I did get an "immobiliser fault" at one stage on the info screen. It doesn't show now though.

  10. #10
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,509

    Default

    Hi Savro-

    I don't know the C5 from Adam (we haven't gotten a new Citroen here since 1973), but I do know that a low or flat battery can produce some really weird faults, even if the alternator is up to spec. A suggestion I have is charge and check the state of the battery. You should see about 12.2-12.5v at rest. If the battery is older, say 5 years or so +, you're due for a new one.



    Bill
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  11. #11
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    The battery could not be the problem - a new one was installed 6 months ago.

    It would not cause the engine just cutting out while driving.

  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Savro View Post
    The battery could not be the problem - a new one was installed 6 months ago.

    It would not cause the engine just cutting out while driving.
    A battery could die actually at 6 months or have some funny internal fault, or the connections to the battery could be dubious. Not likely I agree, but batteries sometimes die prematurely - hence the typical warranty arrangements.

    Good luck with the frustrations! I agree that there should be some faults logged, waiting for translation.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Thanks for the advice so far guys.

    Can anyone advise where the flywheel angle sensor is located?

    I found the camshaft sensor - at the RHS of the front bank camshaft gallery. I presume the sensor becomes coated with engine oil in normal operation.

    Thanks

  14. #14
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,509

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    A battery could die actually at 6 months or have some funny internal fault, or the connections to the battery could be dubious. Not likely I agree, but batteries sometimes die prematurely - hence the typical warranty arrangements.

    Good luck with the frustrations! I agree that there should be some faults logged, waiting for translation.
    Yah, you're right, nothing really to agree with re: possible problems, just something to check. We occasionally got a car in due to be converted to a limo and the battery was the culprit for all sorts of bizarre problems. I also saw this every great once in a while on streetrod builds.

    Something else to check if your sensors turn out OK: the fuel pump itself. If it's an internal style the fuel is the lubricant. Running it low on fuel can cause the pump to seize. Chances are though this would have blown the fuse due to overloading.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  15. #15
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Still getting an occasional "Immobiliser Fault" showing on the information panel.

    The one and only remote key sometimes gives trouble locking and unlocking the doors - could this be part of the problem?

    The owners handbook doesn't show any fuse protecting the immobiliser circuit that i could check.
    I wouldn't have thought that an immobilier fault would have occurred while driving and stop the engine - a potentially dangerous occurrence.

    Anyone able to advise the location of the crankshaft or flywheel sensor as pwer my earlier post?

    Regards

  16. #16
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    4,917

    Default

    Savro, I think its time to take it to a French mechanic in Perth.

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    have you had the faults read yet ??

    what faults came up ??

    after reading the codes has it been reset ??

    is the problem still there after doing all this ??

    crank sensor will be either on the bell housing or at the back of one of the heads on the camshaft. you will need to remove the engine cover

    do the above first and let me know how it goes
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney View Post
    Savro, I think its time to take it to a French mechanic in Perth.
    And there are a couple worth considering! Possibly more.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  19. #19
    don
    don is offline
    Fellow Frogger! don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mayfield Newcastle
    Posts
    435

    Default

    I had the exact same problem with my C4
    no fuel pump
    coil faults
    etc etc
    motor would turn over but not start

    Turns out there is a known problem with the fuse box PC board same unit in the C5 C4 and C6.
    I had gosford eurocars swap out the box from a used car and hey presto movo.
    My vehicle is under extended warranty so the $1500.00 replacement cost didnt hurt.
    Good luck

  20. #20
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Thanks Don for your suggestion.

    It may well be that it is the immobiliser that is the problem, but if so it only affects ignition - fuel supply and starter operation unaffected. I thought immobilisers were required to disable at least 2 functions.

    A little concern that an immobiliser fault could occur while you were driving - particularly if you were overtaking.

    Where exactly was the fuse box circuit board located - there are two fuseboxes - one in the engine bay and another in the glovebox.

    Regards

  21. #21
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    North Parramatta
    Posts
    3,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Savro View Post
    It may well be that it is the immobiliser that is the problem, but if so it only affects ignition - fuel supply and starter operation unaffected. I thought immobilisers were required to disable at least 2 functions.
    The immobiliser has no effect on the starter function.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    The immobiliser will lock the engine ECU and therefore disable quite a lot even though it may still crank OK.

  23. #23
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    4,917

    Default

    I think its time for a dealer to look at this C5?

  24. #24
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Savro View Post
    Thanks Don for your suggestion.

    It may well be that it is the immobiliser that is the problem, but if so it only affects ignition - fuel supply and starter operation unaffected. I thought immobilisers were required to disable at least 2 functions.

    A little concern that an immobiliser fault could occur while you were driving - particularly if you were overtaking.

    Where exactly was the fuse box circuit board located - there are two fuseboxes - one in the engine bay and another in the glovebox.

    Regards
    Have you gone through the codes yet ??

    i mentioned this earlier and asked for a reply, trying to help you through but..............

    start with the simple things first
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    427

    Default C5 v6

    Hi there Sarvo,

    I'm not sure if you are the lady or gent who posted the C5 v6 hassles recently, and won't get to check, but what is taking place here is a whole lot of guessing, with the ver best of intentions.

    My advice to the last c5 v6 saga was to not muck around with el cheapo mechanics of any kind.

    Take STRAIGHT to your Citroen dealer and get it correctly diagnosed and fixed.

    This car will cost, and I guess if you intend keeping, think of it as a bit of an exotic, or you will tear your hair out big time.

    Repeat, Daniels advice and my advice, TAKE THIS CAR TO A DEALER. Misdiagnosis may potentially cost you even more.

    Chris Mortimer

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •