DS at rozelle sydney on carsales site
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default DS at rozelle sydney on carsales site

    Hi all,
    does anyone know what happened with this car?

    It was a 1969 ID19 red with tan leather interior and sunroof.

    On at about eight grand. Needing a pretty full restoration.

    Chris Mortimer

    Google YouTube and citroen rozelle ID19

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Boyracer's Avatar
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    Default

    It's still on ebay.

    ref. 160702303996
    Cheers,
    Michael

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    Citroen Car Club of NSW - Member

    1974 Citroen DS23 non Pallas BW Auto/Carby with Air-conditioning [AC640 Delta Blue]
    1972 Citroen DS21 5SPD EFI Pallas [AC088 Blanc Meije]

    2012 Citroen C5 Exclusive 3.0L Auto Diesel [Noir Perla Nera]



  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That red one that's been advertised for ages.... Yeah you can clearly see the problem with it ...................... One to many "0"s in the price tag

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    Default Red DS

    the youtube video is good for a laugh. It shows how bad that particular car is, the best bit is when he tries to open the bonnet, and is interrupted by what appears to be a heart-attack! There will always be a better D available for that money.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Stuart Dammery's Avatar
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    agreed with shane, for once
    1980 CX2400
    2000 Xantia Wagon

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger
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    Chris, if you are in the market for a rotten D (red D presently being discussed excluded from this category of course!) at $8K, I'm sure I can help you.
    Last edited by David S; 30th December 2011 at 12:49 PM.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Well the D in question is not rotten - let's be fair - just very optimistic at the price and lots to be done - it originally had bidders on ebay to 7 and a half or thereabouts....but didn't meet reserve...a shame because it sits around getting a bad name.

    Tim

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post
    Well the D in question is not rotten - let's be fair - just very optimistic at the price and lots to be done - it originally had bidders on ebay to 7 and a half or thereabouts....but didn't meet reserve...a shame because it sits around getting a bad name.

    Tim
    Are we looking at the same car (the one that's on ebay right now). I'm thinking $3000 absolute tops. The panels are all buggered, the hydraulics are probably quite good (sounds like a 40second cycle time)and motor sounds ok. The hull is an unknown until you check it over. It needs *everything*, interior, body panels (or extensive rust repairs/rebuilding to the existing panels). Interior is trash, dash is trash, chrome trim on the outside is trash, headlight surrounds crap .... The bumpers weren't straight either were they? A very expensive restoration either way.

    It might be a good starting point for a restoration if the hull is sound.... But if that car is worth $8500 then the ID19 here is worth $85,000.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    D's are not healthy when they're sitting around - either on Ebay, a paddock or a shed.

    Cars like that one used to sell for $500-$1000 a decade ago, and they are appreciating in price as their relative scarcity rises, but I'll agree in the sense that it's a little too much for what it is.

    ...or is it?
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Been through all this previously and from memory you agreed with me then shane. I don't know the owner but its not a basket case surely and yes worth a few grand but we're splitting hairs on that. I just like to remember that it does have an owner, it's a citroen and this is an enthusiasts forum.

    Tim

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middlemoon.1 View Post
    Been through all this previously and from memory you agreed with me then shane. I don't know the owner but its not a basket case surely and yes worth a few grand but we're splitting hairs on that. I just like to remember that it does have an owner, it's a citroen and this is an enthusiasts forum.

    Tim
    I haven't seen the car, I have no idea if it's a basket case. What you *can* see given the excellent unbiased advert for the car ( very impressive and honest) is it needs a lot of money spent on the cosmetics, even if the hull is sound.

    I'm just saying, for $8500 you can see why it hasn't sold.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Yeah - a few years back the price would have just been funny, now it looks a bit rich, who maybe next year or the year after it might be a case of - 'jeez I could have bought one for...

    I'll never forgive myself entirely for not buying my hand made mandolin for 2,500 in the 80s. Now $30,000 if you want to wait for one - but that's the old story.

    All eye of the beholder stuff. And a lot to do with what else is around..we've seen some great buys lately...things were a bit dry when this one first came up.

    Anyway I'm set for the time being.

    Tim

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger
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    You could sink $10K into that car without even touching the mechanicals or underframe, so I think the asking price is hopelessly optimistic. The video didn't show you the things you really need to know to make an informed decision. It makes the entirely original and very low mileage D Special a friend sold via auction 2 years ago look like a steal at about $12K I recall.

    I was making a small joke, but I think there would be more than one vendor chasing a buyer waving $8K around for that example. I just wanted to be at the head of that queue!

  14. #14
    UFO
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    I live in the next suburb and, although this sounds harsh, having seen what is shown on the internet, I would not waste my time to go and see it.

    I know of another D Special that was bought recently for 75% of that price and the only major problem with it is a rusty fuel tank that is being rectified.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Well yes harsh, but also not necessary. I'm pretty sure the red one is a 21, and deserves an owner. It doesn't really matter whether you would want to see it or not. Quoting other opportunities had for a bargain is fine but owners are allowed to set their price without such attention. It's not as though the car is misrepresented.

    Anyway that's what I think.

  16. #16
    UFO
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    It's an ID19B. Fourth photo is of the body plate.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Even better...and if any one takes it on contact me for cheap replacement interior! Please don't get me wrong I'm not being snipy or anything I just want to back the car which reports tell me is not half bad. Give it a chance to find happy medium with the right price without nasturtiums.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I just wish someone would put this car or just this ad out of it's misery. There's a similar GS Break on English Ebay, somewhat similar condition that won't go away. With this Red DS wasn't the story that the guy bought it either off Ebay or off a Gray's auction quite cheaply. Perhaps about 1/4 of it's current asking price. Seeing the same old, same old week after week... it's lame.

    Happy NY to fellow AFers!

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    Default that DS

    You may be a glass half full kinda guy Tim, good luck to you. If a potential enthusiast thought that car was a good buy because the forum suggested so. Well, that would be a great shame, I would think anyone who paid more than a couple of grand for it would be ill advised by anyone on this forum. It will never be a good car without a plenty of money being thrown at it. Which begs the question. Why not "buy the best car you can afford". Yep it has a 21 motor, which is a bonus, that from memory was a transplant done by a known enthusiast in Melbourne 12 or so years ago. Not sure if the motor was rebuilt or just dropped in, i suspect just dropped in. Anyway, if someone got it cheap and got it roadworthy and used it as a run about, that would be great, but, not at $8500.00. I don't think that in a public forum we shouldn't be able to publicly critique a car based on our experience........... In my experience, that car is plenty of work, hence it's long term residency on ebay, and car sales etc.

  20. #20
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    Correct Mr Berry ... "Experience" - and that's what the buyer will need to lack to buy it at the asking price. While we might have seen it before, it only requires one buyer. There may well be one wood duck out there somewhere, who's just read a magazine article or seen an old episode of Top Gear and is looking at it through rose-tinted glass (or beer goggles at this time of year). For anyone else, make the guy an offer at a value you can live with.

  21. #21
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    Default Red ds

    Hi all and thanks for the thoughts.

    Me and my experience.

    I Love red to buts, and it goes well with tan leather. Vinyl roof with sunroof. Has romance written all over it.

    I could imagine that car coming up stunning. With the right amount of work and dollars injected. And the right people on the job.

    I was thinking that a car in that condition would be worth say four grand.

    Chrome to fix or replace would have to be three to four grand, I am guessing all of this, body respray and rust repair say ten, interior say three to four, roof a grand or two, mechanicals could I guess another ten?

    So that takes it in the thirty grand region if the car was four grand.

    Than I suppose it would still only be worth twenty if you are lucky.

    Just guessing, but my 2cv restoration this year would have to be cheap compared to a D rescue.

    Chris Mortimer

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    Mr Berry,

    I am optimistic...I grant it. - I've never said 'kinda guy'' though...that's your characterisation - thanks. I don't think I'm an uncritical Polly Anna.

    I didn't say the car is worth the asking price. Nobody has said that at any stage to my reading. Read back. At the same time I don't think it is fair to remotely lampoon a car and seller though...I wouldn't call that a 'critique' especially in the guise of being objective about it...i'm assuming you've not seen it of course...that's an easy game. It's sat on ebay for a while and this gets tiresome...and makes the sale vulnerable to this kind of thing. I completely agree with the principle of buying the best example one can afford - of course.

    David S in his last comment said all that might have been said at the outset - make an offer if you're interested.

    Call me crazy, but my view is that a D that starts, rises, is not honeycombed (to be determined - but I have heard it's not), is a bit interesting as well, is worth a few grand at least ( I think that's what I said earlier) -anything more to be determined by the parties. Remember it's a D not a Camry. And again, just because my great uncle passes on his spectacular pride and joy for a song, doesn't make lesser cars crap buying by comparison. Just makes for one happy new cit owner.

    Tim
    Last edited by Middlemoon.1; 30th December 2011 at 10:10 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Red ds

    Tim,

    I am tempted to be provocative here, but shall restrain.

    Quote me, but unless anyone that has made a reply has been to see the car, we are all unqualified. Out of our depths. Quote, Quote, Quote, Quote.

    There is a seller out there, and we gotta be respectful, but if I were to buy the babe, it would need a fair bit of work factored in.

    I have not heard of a forty to fifty grand D been for sale down under.

    Last lustful D experience I had was a mocha brown DS 23 1974 in unique cars for $19,990 earlier this year, and in beautiful condition.

    But brown? The romance......

    Red and tan. With sunroof......yep. There is romance.

    But with a big restoration cost factored in.

    CM

  24. #24
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    Chris, the simple issue with this car (ignoring the unknown mechanical and underframe issues - I haven't looked at the car) is that it obviously needs quite a lot of work and it will cost you more to put it right than the cost of a better example to begin with. It depends what you can live with, but I suspect you will want to make it as presentable as possible, which means you will very quickly leave yourself over-capitalised. If this doesn't bother you and you particularly want this car, then you should pursue it and offer what you can justify.

    However ... You are up for a paint job (and more) anyway with this car, so you can paint it any colour you like as you could with a better example to begin with. Almost all the trim is stainless, not chromed so it will polish, but dents are hard to deal with. It has one Pallas tail lamp (RHS), which is wrong. Converting a 1984cc short stroke engine to 21 spec requires little more than a set of 21 pistons and liners and changing the carby/manifold, so it's not that big a deal that it's a 21. The extra power is a help, but really a later D Special is quite adequate. You want a Weber carb in any case, so find out what's on this one and note down the type. I'm not a great fan of the vinyl roof as they tend to flap if they are not taut. Look at CitronPieces.com for trim costs, but it needs pretty much the lot. It will no doubt need plenty of small items, which tend to add up very quickly. Don't be afraid to walk away as there are others out there and some would be better specifications to begin with.
    Last edited by David S; 30th December 2011 at 11:29 PM.

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Middlemoon.1's Avatar
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    I'm confused here - I don't think Chris' is after this....if he is well he'll be right to judge for himself as he seems pretty realistic. The thing is if we always factored in the costs of a quality restoration - and that itself is a 'piece of string' concept - the seller would have to pay you to take the car. But no, it's worth something as is. And I reckon Chris got that right or thereabouts.

    Tim

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