Traction Clutch stuck.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Traction Clutch stuck.

    Can somebody help me find a thread I remember reading about a stuck clutch on a Traction. A mate has a small boot BL and on his description that's his problem. I've had plenty of experience with stuck clutches but in tractors, trucks and 4WDs, I intend to give him a hand tomorrow but knowing that Traction gearboxes are made from Crystal I fear busting the C&P or have reverse pop out the side. Advice on the matter would be welcome.


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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That was me .... I started it in 1st gear down our steep'ish drive (ie: very little shock loading on the gearbox), then drove it across the road and around the local hall. I held the clutch in and accelerated, then engine braked in 1st gear a number of times, and it came free. I figured this was as gentle as driving the car around in 1st gear.

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    If It is really stuck fast it is an engine out and bell housing separation job. Then a dismantling and cleaning of the clutch working faces. Any other approach is courting Disaster. While it is out separate the bell housing and gearbox and examine the cw&p for wear in the roots and tips of the teeth. If there are any traces of case hardening erosion it is time to overhaul the box thoroughly. To ignore this, again invites trouble.
    Cheers Gerry

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! tractionfan's Avatar
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    This hapens to my 11BN. I jack up one front wheel, start the car in gear and lightly tap the brake. You have to be carefull though, you can crack a casing. I made a brace to engage the clutch when I know that it will be stored for a while. it just a rod that i stick under the steering wheel and down to the clutch to keep it open. hope that helps.

  5. #5
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    Here is a reminder of the fragility of a Traction gearbox. I remember being told to never push or roll start a Traction.

    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    With all the above being enough to scare the living daylights out of a TA owner, it must be remembered that a properly rebuilt TA box is quite robust. The above occurs when the pinion shaft has become loose and begins to work itself backwards and forward under changes of driving loads. The looseness is nearly always caused by compression of the multi tab washer behind the pinion shaft nut becoming compressed. The tension id released from the but and the movement of the shaft begins. The splines of the shaft chew into the half locking rings and the movement begins to increase. Erosion of the teeth in mesh occurs as the CW&P goes in and out of its proper preset position. Merely removing the washer and re tightening the nut will not fix the problem because the re tightened nut will pull everything up against eroded locking rings putting the pinion at its most forward out of mesh position-----very bad! The only cure is a total rebuild and to dispense with the troublesome multi tab washer. Use a good grade of Loctite instead. Be very particular with the measurement of the conic depth of the pinion and set the backlash to .19 to .24 mm. Do a blue print mesh check and make sure that the print is in the centre of the pinion and crown wheel teeth. Use as many new parts as you can lay your hands on and don't skimp on cost by recycling any part that is slightly dodgy.
    Cheers Gerry
    PS rebuild the water pump also. These can leak and guess where the dripping water goes!!!! Straight into the bell housing and onto the clutch!!!!!

  7. #7
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    Yes, the number one piece of equipment for any term of traction inactivity is a suitable bit of wood (1" dowel) cut to length to place between the under front seat cross member and the fully depressed clutch pedal. As Gerry mentions the water pump is ideally located to cause this problem and even though it may appear not to be leaking they can easily weep on longer term storage.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    On Post war Slough cars there is often a small clip that flips across the clutch pedal when fully depressed. I do not think that it was original, but believe it may have been fitted by service agents for just this purpose. In any case it is easy to make. Just an L shaped piece of sheet metal drilled and fixed to the lower flange of the pedal bx with a split pin, rivet, or small nut and bolt.
    Cheers Gerry
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  9. #9
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    On Post war Slough cars there is often a small clip that flips across the clutch pedal when fully depressed. I do not think that it was original, but believe it may have been fitted by service agents for just this purpose. In any case it is easy to make. Just an L shaped piece of sheet metal drilled and fixed to the lower flange of the pedal bx with a split pin, rivet, or small nut and bolt.
    Cheers Gerry
    That's such a good idea. My Renault 4CV clutch sticks slightly if she is left unloved for more than a month or so. It always unsticks by starting the car in gear, clutch pedal depressed and brakes on, so much be a very light "stick" indeed.
    JohnW

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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    perhaps could it be just a thrust bearing sticking?
    15 gearbox cases pop if any broken gear-tooth pieces
    in the oil, get jammed in between the CW and P as that will spread them apart.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Trading Estate's Avatar
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    I used to put in top gear and bounce/ push, on the back bumper . it usually freed. I used to use 1 and a 1/4 "dowel as described , but it hasn't stuck for years now.
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    the L shaped clip was fitted by the factory to depress the clutch during shipping from England to the colonies to prevent clutch stick

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    A big thanks to everybody who weighed in with helpful suggestions. It was only a "light stick" fortunately and came good on the second try on the starter alone, lucky. It's so good to have so much support and knowledge that flows quickly among the TA fraternity. Thanks again.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! tractionfan's Avatar
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    With the water pump. they do seem to drip. I had two where the surface the seal sits on was corroded. I ended up buying an off the shelf seal. it has a ceramic ring for the carbon to seal against. I had the pump machined to fit the carbon. So far so good.

  15. #15
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tractionfan View Post
    With the water pump. they do seem to drip. I had two where the surface the seal sits on was corroded. I ended up buying an off the shelf seal. it has a ceramic ring for the carbon to seal against. I had the pump machined to fit the carbon. So far so good.
    I'd comment that infrequent use doesn't help water pump seals but also that there must surely be a way of deflecting water pump drips sideways so they don't enter the clutch?

    So good it came unstuck easily. Keep driving the car regularly!!
    JohnW

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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petermelb View Post
    the L shaped clip was fitted by the factory to depress the clutch during shipping from England to the colonies to prevent clutch stick
    Peter, It is not fitted to all of the Slough cars. It was not on my 51 11CL8 or my fathers 52 B15 nor on my 6H ( but then again 6's did not suffer from this clutch problem. It certainly was not on my 1940 11CL4 but that had the early pedal gear. It was however on my present 53 11CL6and on a previously owned 52 11CL6.
    Cheers Gerry

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I'd comment that infrequent use doesn't help water pump seals but also that there must surely be a way of deflecting water pump drips sideways so they don't enter the clutch?

    So good it came unstuck easily. Keep driving the car regularly!!
    John, making sure that the grease impregnated felt wadding is in place under the lower tin cover for the gear tower and bell housing aperture helps enormously. This wadding is often missing and I believe many people now becoming interested in TAs are not even aware that it was originally fitted to cars that came here. It is not shown in the spare parts manuals.
    Cheers Gerry

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    John, making sure that the grease impregnated felt wadding is in place under the lower tin cover for the gear tower and bell housing aperture helps enormously. This wadding is often missing and I believe many people now becoming interested in TAs are not even aware that it was originally fitted to cars that came here. It is not shown in the spare parts manuals.
    Cheers Gerry
    We are moving to a new generation of owners of these cars who had no practical experience actually using them as "old cars" before they became "interesting" or "classic". So there can be a huge knowledge gap for new purchasers - I reckon after 6 years I've still a lot to learn about my CX and I try to use it fairly regularly.

    Even the simplest old cars - let us take a Renault 4CV such as I own, have all the old issues with regular greasing, distributors, odd bits of French manufacture for which there seems nothing available to read (Renault-built lever shock absorbers come to mind) - are a completely different paradigm compared with "moderns".

    That of course is the huge value of this forum.

    Interesting comment regarding the felt component - where used, felt seals are shown clearly in the Renault parts manuals.
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
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    there must surely be a way of deflecting water pump drips sideways so they don't enter the clutch?

    Call it the "farmers fix" but we got a small funnel with bend in the neck & zip tied it under the drip zone. problem solved. cheers Dave

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy1 View Post
    there must surely be a way of deflecting water pump drips sideways so they don't enter the clutch?

    Call it the "farmers fix" but we got a small funnel with bend in the neck & zip tied it under the drip zone. problem solved. cheers Dave
    "Farmer's fix" I like that description!
    Cheers Gerry
    Of course the proper fix is to reco the water pump and use a good coolant or at the very least a good corrosion inhibitor in future!

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