HDI C5 wont start
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  1. #1
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    Default HDI C5 wont start

    I have a 2004 HDI Estate it ran perfectly yesterday as I went to family for Christmas. This morning I went to start it would not go it only ran for a few seconds even if i try to rev it it only runs for a few seconds anybody have any ideas. as it gave me no problem at all until this morning it started easy ran well this morning it just wont go and the worst time of year between Christmas and New Year
    Thanks Everyone


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  2. #2
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    Just guessing, but if it will start and will not continue to run, then perhaps an airhose has become detached somewhere, meaning too much air is getting in. Let us know how you go.
    Craig K

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger
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    One possibility is the feed to fuel pump at the fuse box. So, remove the fuse box cover (pull the centre out of the cover retaining clips to get them out) and have a look at the state of the sockets and pins. I can't recall exactly which one it is offhand, but the wire is pink or white on a socket with a red body - if it's burnt it will be obvious. You have to slide the retainer hoop to release the socket. If it's burnt, it needs a new wire and a secondary feed from an adjacent pin, but the temporary fix is to clean it up.

    Sometimes with the earlier cars, the immobiliser locks itself after the battery has been disconnected and you'll then find it will crank but not fire. Lock and unlock it with the plip and it should fix that little trap.

  4. #4
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    It look like it was an air lock I got it started this afternoon after about 4 attempts I put my foot on the accelerator before trying to start it and kept it on so it would rev it finally worked so I am now up and running again

  5. #5
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    Good news - and thanks for telling us what happened.
    Craig K

    1974 D Special 2007 C4 HDi EGS
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by finny12 View Post
    It look like it was an air lock I got it started this afternoon after about 4 attempts I put my foot on the accelerator before trying to start it and kept it on so it would rev it finally worked so I am now up and running again
    Thanks for the feedback. My question is "how?"

    Good you are mobile! But how would an airlock actually happen and then go away?

    Best wishes for the rest of the holiday season. Once everyone is open again it will behave perfectly!

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Very sad case......

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger
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    It's pleasing that you started it, but you should still suspect another problem. Air locks happen if you run out of fuel and can happen on the low pressure side of cars with a vacuum feed to the HP pump. Your car should have a pump on the LP side, so I would only expect an air lock if you ran out of fuel.

    The attached photo is of the engine fuse/relay box (aka engine slave / BSM) in a family member's 2001 C5 HDi. The fuel pump is supplied from pin 11, being the pink/red wire. Since pin 11 can burnt out and stop the pump, an extra wire can be spliced in as an extra supply. In this case, it's been fitted to pin 12, which was unused. To do this, you need to harvest a terminal and wire from another harness and then dismantle the socket (fiddly the first time you do it) to remove the terminal. Maybe, obtain a complete socket with a decent length of wiring from a dead car if you want to perform this modification yourself.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails HDI C5 wont start-c5_hdi_fuse_sml.jpg  

  8. #8
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    Modern common rail diesels don't get air locks, any air? and there shouldn't be any, is self bleeding back to the tank, the throttle is "fly by wire" doesn't matter where the pedal is, it doesn't do anything until the engine starts. Put test light probe on terminal 11, if it lights and the engine still won't start then you need to look elsewhere. If all ok, wiggle the terminal and try to make the light go out. If you can, then the terminal needs attention. It's a common fault. I ran my C5 for nearly 12 mths with a tooth pick jammed into the terminal. Lazy mechanic, I admit it. The wiring terminal system on C5s is a shoddy, poorly designed, complete piece of crap. I think it was made in China along with my last new shirt. That was crap also. Thank God Citroen don't make aircraft.
    Anyway and a happy trouble free new year to all Froggie owners.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    The attached photo is of the engine fuse/relay box (aka engine slave / BSM) in a family member's 2001 C5 HDi. The fuel pump is supplied from pin 11, being the pink/red wire. Since pin 11 can burnt out and stop the pump, an extra wire can be spliced in as an extra supply. In this case, it's been fitted to pin 12, which was unused.
    David S - Brilliant! This is exactly what was wrong with my C5 2.2 HDi. Many thanks.

  10. #10
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    Hi this is my first post on aussiefrogs, forgive any protocol breaches! I have had recently very similar starting problems. I have a 2008 C4 CDi EGS 2L Turbo, it's been a great car but a couple of weeks ago and again on boxing day it wouldn't start. Battery had a full charge, drove the night before without incident but on turning the key it played "dead" it clicked as though I'd left the car in gear, on trying several times the motor turned over but wouldn't fire then just went back to "clicking". Called the NRMA and of course it started first turn of the key! I suspect it may have developed an intermittent starter motor problem but then read the thread on the C5 fuel pump fuse, can anyone shed any light on this?, best regards, Michael (Gavel)

  11. #11
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    Welcome Gavel. Yes, you have a starting problem, but it's a different model and different issue. The later diesels draw fuel from the tank by vacuum, so there's no separate electric pump inside the tank. On those cars there is a rubber pumping bulb on the fuel line so you can bleed the air out.

    I'm not sure what your car is as there were no 2.0 HDi's sold here with an EGS gearbox??? (Edit: That ignores the C4 Picasso from about 2011 on) 1.6 HDi EGS or 2.0 HDi 6 speed auto??? Petrol 2.0 4 speed auto? What is it exactly? If it's a petrol, then the engine fuse box can sometimes be at fault, but it sounds like it's most likely the battery or starter. A battery can seem fully charged, yet not deliver enough power to start the car because the charge is only on the surface of the plates and has no depth and therefore the voltage will drop off very quickly. Although you can do the classic 10 second cold crank / voltage drop test, there are professional tools to test batteries properly. If you have the original 2008 battery, it's probably in need of replacement and you would feel lucky to have had over 4 years out of it. On an EGS, like the Sensodrive, there would be a safety interlock with the footbrake pedal and a bad brake switch may even be the root cause.
    Last edited by David S; 28th December 2012 at 08:50 PM.

  12. #12
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    With respect to the C5 HDi 'crank but not fire up' problem, yes, I have experienced same problem and here was what I found and how I fixed it, about 12 months ago and the problem has never returned.

    Problem is caused by high resistance in a multi pin connector in fuse box. Look carefully at each pin and the one with the high resistance will be discolored (greyish color instead of silver) once identified clean both pins and sockets with CO Contact cleaner, then 'splay' the suspect pins, by carefully bending one forward and opposite pin backwards, by about 5 degrees, this will increase the tension on the pins, now before clicking back together spray both pins and sockets with Di-Electric grease, click connector back together and enjoy trouble free motoring forever more!

  13. #13
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    Hi, many thanks for the response I'll try your suggestion. I thought it may be the safety interlock too. My Model is 2008 2.0 Turbo HDi EGS 6 speed auto with sports mode selector, full leather, heated seats, we bought it from Nepean Motor Group just before they went into receivership....lost out on the $700 extended warranty we bought too! Supplimentary question, where the hell is the oil filter?! I expect I'll have to remove the huge cover underneath to do my own oil change but I haven't got a garage or even a level drive way/road to put the car on ramps. Makes life a bit hard....

  14. #14
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    You may be able to do that oil change with a sucker. Yes, an initial expense but then you're sorted.

    There are a variety of proper socket tools for the filter housing, just using multis or an open-ended spanner is likely to damage the housing's head. Make sure not to stack o-rings when reassembling.

  15. #15
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    Gavel,

    I think you are confused, and this is perhaps further confusing this particular thread.

    You say your C4 is a 2 litre HDi - fair enough - they were sold in Australia. They were equipped with a 6 speed fully automatic gearbox. This was not an EGS 'box - it is an Aisin-Warner automatic gearbox. The drive train is the same/similar to the 2 litre C5 of the time (such as mine).

    The EGS gearbox is a manual gearbox with a robot-ised clutch and gear change mechanism that includes "flappy paddles" behind the steering wheel, and, as far as I am aware, this option has only ever been offered in the C4 with a 1.6l HDi engine. The EGS 'box was the better replacement for the earlier Sensodrive 'box as seen in the C2.

    As to your oil filter - it is a cartridge type and it is inside a large plastic cap that sits to the drivebelt end of the engine block at the front. The cap is black and has about a 27mm "nut" on the top. When buying a new filter you should also receive a new O ring for inside the cap. Oil the ring before fitting. The beauty of this system is that you do not have oil running everywhere as you remove the can type filter.

    Removal of the under tray is not difficult as it is a few bolts and some 1/2 turn captive screws.
    Craig K

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  16. #16
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    Craig & Addo,

    Thanks for the advice, I feel more confident now, I did see that large plastic cap but it didn't occur to me it could house the oil filter.
    I think the salesman at the time gave me the wrong info and I've never bothered checking it. It does have Manual override/selector but definately no paddles! Gavel

  17. #17
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    I neglected to add earlier - be careful when removing the filter housing as the O ring can "lock" on. Gentle pressure rather than apprentice pressure is best.

    Your car's gearbox has a manual shift mode that I find useful on my car for braking downhill etc. As a manual change device for normal driving I let the engine, 'box and computer work it out as the torque of the HDi engine makes it so effortless. For certain parts of roads I use sport mode. The 2l HDi in the C4 certainly is a great performer. We almost went for that but the hydraulic suspension of the C5 won us over - once again.
    Craig K

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  18. #18
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    Thanks again, for all the advice, at the time our budget couldn't stretch to the C5, it's not poss to retro fit hydraulic suspension on the C4?
    Our economy is amazing, on a trip to Canberra or Thredbo we've had figures of 4.8L per 100! Going down to Mt Bulla I got close to 1250Klm out of the tank before I chickened out and filled up again.

  19. #19
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    If you want hydraulics, trade the C4 on a C5.

    A sucker would do the oil change job. A side note is that a sucker apparently doesn't work on an EP6 engine - late C4's, DS3 etc..

    Does the car's VIN contains 'RHR' or '9HZ'? If it's a 2.0HDi (DW10 family) it will have RHR. If it has '9H' in the VIN, it's a 1.6HDi (DV6 family). They should both have the replaceable element filter housing UFO referred to, although the earlier DW10 engines in the early C5's have a regular screw on filter. You should be able to use a sucker on either engine and probably change the filter without having to remove the undertray. You can certainly change the oil filter on early C5 HDi's just be reaching down the front of the engine. In the later 2.0HDi C5, the diesel fuel filter has a 'nut' on top of it to remove the cover and the C4 2.0 HDi may use this too - I can't recall. Certainly, the 1.6HDi has a throwaway plug-in cannister fuel filter instead. It's worth knowing how to change that too.
    Last edited by David S; 31st December 2012 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Factually wrong!

  20. #20
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    Might have to discuss trading terms with better half.....I'll check the engine/Vin nos. Can I ask anyone of a reliable, inexpensive service centre close to Penrith? I really should get a proper service done soon, I have considered Ultratune. I used to go down to Punchbowl but it's too far and was getting a bit pricey. Also how does a sucker work, where can I get one? How much?, Cheers, Mike

  21. #21
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    Are you aware of European Autocare in Batts St, Penrith. They're Citroen specialists but mainly in the older models.
    However they did urgent repairs on my Berlingo when it broke, so quite possibly they can do standard servicing on the current cars.

    Worth having a look anyway. And for you it is the same suburb !!!!

  22. #22
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    A sucker works by pumping the big handle while you poke a tube down the dipstick hole.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/290838489422

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    A sucker works by pumping the big handle while you poke a tube down the dipstick hole.
    ...........
    Share your knowledge. It is a way to achieve immortality.

  24. #24
    Mon nom, dans la presse!
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    And that's all I'll say about my NYE...

  25. #25
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    Hello everyone, happy new year....well it is for me, as someone suggested the problem I had turned out to be the Battery!!
    It cost me $250 but all my problems have gone away!!!! thanks for all your input tho' Cheers, Mike

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