Wiring a Relay
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Thread: Wiring a Relay

  1. #1
    JBN
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    Default Wiring a Relay

    I am up to Plan D on getting the Xantia S1 Heater Blower to work. I am hoping to do it properly according to the established addition of a relay near the ignition switch.

    I would appreciate opinions on the relay by someone who knows about auto electrics. This is my weak point as far as automotive knowledge is concerned. I haven't had much practice with the 2CVs, but the Xantia is a mobile Automotive Electronics University on Wheels.

    Today I went to SuperCheap and bought:
    Yellow spade connectors. (I have cut insulating collars out of clear plastic tubing)
    25A heavy duty wire (the highest amperage they had)
    I have unrated automotive wire (I guess 10amp) for ground and switch
    A 40amp 12V Relay.

    It is the relay that I am unsure of, as unlike Russia (where there is only one to choose from) there were many. The only one that was 40amp had a resistor (?) and a Normally Open Circuit (?).

    Below are two photos. One from the back of the relay packaging, the other from an article describing the modification. I have added my description of the wires - where they come from and their position on the relay.

    Note that both wires from the brown plug are 25amp, the ground and the switch are 10amp.

    Comments please.

    John

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wiring a Relay-xantia-relay-small.jpg   Wiring a Relay-blower_mod_3.jpg  

  2. #2
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I am up to Plan D on getting the Xantia S1 Heater Blower to work. I am hoping to do it properly according to the established addition of a relay near the ignition switch.

    I would appreciate opinions on the relay by someone who knows about auto electrics. This is my weak point as far as automotive knowledge is concerned. I haven't had much practice with the 2CVs, but the Xantia is a mobile Automotive Electronics University on Wheels.

    Today I went to SuperCheap and bought:
    Yellow spade connectors. (I have cut insulating collars out of clear plastic tubing)
    25A heavy duty wire (the highest amperage they had)
    I have unrated automotive wire (I guess 10amp) for ground and switch
    A 40amp 12V Relay.

    It is the relay that I am unsure of, as unlike Russia (where there is only one to choose from) there were many. The only one that was 40amp had a resistor (?) and a Normally Open Circuit (?).

    Below are two photos. One from the back of the relay packaging, the other from an article describing the modification. I have added my description of the wires - where they come from and their position on the relay.

    Note that both wires from the brown plug are 25amp, the ground and the switch are 10amp.

    Comments please.

    John
    Sorry, stuffed up. Try this photo of the modification.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wiring a Relay-blower3.jpg  

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Sorry, stuffed up. Try this photo of the modification.
    If the image is how you wired it up then it appears you are missing the earth for the relay coil.

    It seems there are only three wires to the relay in the image.

    There should be an earth wire connected either 85 or 86, it doesn't matter which, just use the terminal which is currently not connected to anything.

  4. #4
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I am up to Plan D on getting the Xantia S1 Heater Blower to work. I am hoping to do it properly according to the established addition of a relay near the ignition switch.

    I would appreciate opinions on the relay by someone who knows about auto electrics. This is my weak point as far as automotive knowledge is concerned. I haven't had much practice with the 2CVs, but the Xantia is a mobile Automotive Electronics University on Wheels.

    Today I went to SuperCheap and bought:
    Yellow spade connectors. (I have cut insulating collars out of clear plastic tubing)
    25A heavy duty wire (the highest amperage they had)
    I have unrated automotive wire (I guess 10amp) for ground and switch
    A 40amp 12V Relay.

    It is the relay that I am unsure of, as unlike Russia (where there is only one to choose from) there were many. The only one that was 40amp had a resistor (?) and a Normally Open Circuit (?).

    Below are two photos. One from the back of the relay packaging, the other from an article describing the modification. I have added my description of the wires - where they come from and their position on the relay.

    Note that both wires from the brown plug are 25amp, the ground and the switch are 10amp.

    Comments please.

    John
    Hi John-

    Your choice of relay is just fine. What you think is a resistor is actually a diode, which in this case helps prevent arcing of the 30 and 87 points when the relay returns to a normally open state (turns off). The wire (you describe in capacity, I would know in American Wire Gauge sizing) is more than sufficient. You could get away safely with smaller wire on the 85 and 86 terminals, because switching an automotive relay normally requires only a 1/2 amp or less.

    Just so long as the crimps are solid (a poor crimp leads to arcing and burning) my guess is you'll be OK.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  5. #5
    JBN
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    Hi Robmac, the photo is not of what I have done, rather it is of a previous article on French Connection (I think). If you look at the original photo of the relay packaging, I have added a description of which wires I intend to connect to the different relay posts.

    The last photo in the second post is good because the photo shows the existing connectors (brown plugs and grey plugs) and their pins are numbered.

    My main concern is if I got the correct relay.

    John

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Hi Robmac, the photo is not of what I have done, rather it is of a previous article on French Connection (I think). If you look at the original photo of the relay packaging, I have added a description of which wires I intend to connect to the different relay posts.

    The last photo in the second post is good because the photo shows the existing connectors (brown plugs and grey plugs) and their pins are numbered.

    My main concern is if I got the correct relay.

    John
    Don't worry about the relay .... A relay, is a relay is a relay ... It's current carrying capacity is what matters. Given it's likely to be 30amps you have nothing to worry about.

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    Default Xantia relay

    John,

    I did the relay update on my Series 1 Xantia about 2 years ago. I used that image in your first post above for guidance and after I'd done the job, I drew the attachment in case of future need.

    I'd need to spend some time on it to get the detail fresh in my mind again, but perhaps the image below makes some sense of what you're looking at.

    I haven't had any trouble with this since I installed it.

    Chris
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    JBN
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    Thanks Citquery. I have done the same except the connections from the brown plug were reversed. I had the red from the battery going to 30 and the output from 87 going to the 30amp fuse.

    I now have to unravel the dodgy relay that was installed near the actual blower fan by a Citroen delaer in Brisbane.

    Thank God the electric windows still work and it has been a cool summer so far.

    john

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Sorry, stuffed up. Try this photo of the modification.
    That photo reminds me why I don't work on the Xantia electrics.

    We did PAY to have the relay fitted exactly according to the Citroen factory modification recommendation after burning out the first ignition switch about 8-9 years back. No trouble since.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That photo reminds me why I don't work on the Xantia electrics.

    We did PAY to have the relay fitted exactly according to the Citroen factory modification recommendation after burning out the first ignition switch about 8-9 years back. No trouble since.

    Cheers
    The 1978 CX 2400 was the last Citroen that had fairly trouble free electrics. I am amazed how the BX and Xantias have poor electrics with regards to heater blower fans. Why didn't they just copy any Japanses car to see how it is done?

    John

  11. #11
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    Default Xantia relay wiring

    John,

    The electronics gurus will no doubt come down on me like a ton (tonne) of bricks if this is wrong, but I don't think it matters which way round you connect 30 or 87 (see your attachment on first posting), as the little electronic switch operated via 86 and 85 simply operates the connection between the otherwise open circuits terminated at 30 and 87 (and their respective extensions into the body of the relay).

    Perhaps Ghosn has forged the logical marriage between French creativity and Japanese relaibility and attention to detail.

    Judging by the current crop of Renault and Nissan products, I think the creative side has been lost. Where is the contemporary R16, for instance?

    On the reliability side, I recall Wheels magazine recently had a diabolical experience with a bread and butter Megane/Fluence/whatever, so I'm not sure about the success of the marriage: perhaps just another example of a merger which seemed like someone's (Ghosn's?) good idea at the time. But for what purpose?

    Chris

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    That is right. It does not matter which way round they are connected. There is nothing electronic in the relay save for the diode. 86 and 85 connect to the coil and 30 and 87 connect to the contacts in the relay. When current flows in the coil the magnetic field so created pulls the two contacts together and completes the circuit they are connected to, in JBN's case the power feed to the fan module. The two circuits in the relay are totally separate.

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  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citquery View Post
    John,

    The electronics gurus will no doubt come down on me like a ton (tonne) of bricks if this is wrong, but I don't think it matters which way round you connect 30 or 87 (see your attachment on first posting), as the little electronic switch operated via 86 and 85 simply operates the connection between the otherwise open circuits terminated at 30 and 87 (and their respective extensions into the body of the relay).

    Chris
    No, I'm not, anyway. That's simply the way I learnt to hook those up decades ago. The only thing about your premise is if you use your relay to path power in two directions rather than just one. Then 30 becomes your input if 87 (N.O.) and 87a (N.C.) are your outputs. Of course, if you need power from two different paths out to one, then you'll reverse that. Getting back to your point, for a simple in/out device, no, it won't matter.

    Those Bosch-clone "ice cube" relays are really quite versatile, and even the genuine Bosch (now made by Tyco) ones are amazingly cheap for the basic ones.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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