CX waterpump rebuilding? Sydney?
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  1. #1
    UFO
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    Default CX waterpump rebuilding? Sydney?

    Hi all,

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    doing some maintenance on the CX this morning and it looks like the 2 year old barely used (ie less than 3 000km) waterpump is starting to leak out of the small hole under the shaft on the pulley side. Tell tale white spray marks on the inside of the bonnet and of course on the engine side face of the pulley.

    A bit annoying actually as the pump is barely used.

    I have the old pump here that suffered a similar fate. Does anyone know of a reliable place in Sydney to get a waterpump refurbished?

    Please advise.

    Otherwise I might be just as well of buying yet another new one from o/s.

    Happy days
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Hi all,

    doing some maintenance on the CX this morning and it looks like the 2 year old barely used (ie less than 3 000km) waterpump is starting to leak out of the small hole under the shaft on the pulley side. Tell tale white spray marks on the inside of the bonnet and of course on the engine side face of the pulley.

    A bit annoying actually as the pump is barely used.

    I have the old pump here that suffered a similar fate. Does anyone know of a reliable place in Sydney to get a waterpump refurbished?

    Please advise.

    Otherwise I might be just as well of buying yet another new one from o/s.

    Happy days
    Richo can probably help and is only a $8 Aust post envelope away...

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Jason knows a guy that rebuilds D waterpumps. I gave him a selection of pumps to give to him to see if the CX pump can be done. Apparently you have to use the factory casting in the rebuild. I haven't heard anything yet though.

    Probably cheaper to get a new pump, I would recommend the SKF you get from CX basis rather then the Italian one as it has a smaller main pulley so the pump and ancillaries spin faster.

    Just shows you need to drive it more.

    Greg
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  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    They must be being remade.... Here's a new waterpump from GSF ....

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-PUMP...ht_1431wt_1274

    95quid right to your door.... why bother trying to rebuild :confused;

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
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    Hi Craig,

    I expect your waterpump could indeed be reconditioned if you wish. Ian Steele and I did the one on my '77 2400 quite successfully. It performed faultlessly for several years before the car met it's untimely demise.

    For what's it worth, I'd be confident to rebuild one myself if I had a press and the parts. Having said that....as the other guys point out, the economics might suggest you just go for a whole new unit.

    Either way, long periods without use do certainly seem to take their toll on shaft seals.

    Good luck,

    Harvey.

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    UFO
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    Yeah I think I might just order one. bugger!

    And double bugger - while the fitting of the pump is no biggie, no one yet has come up with an easy way to tension that bloody alternator belt up! grrrrrrrr
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    UFO
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    Ordered. $148 inc freight. I wonder if it'll make it prior to Xmas!
    Craig K
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Hi all,

    doing some maintenance on the CX this morning and it looks like the 2 year old barely used (ie less than 3 000km) waterpump is starting to leak out of the small hole under the shaft on the pulley side. Tell tale white spray marks on the inside of the bonnet and of course on the engine side face of the pulley.

    A bit annoying actually as the pump is barely used.

    I have the old pump here that suffered a similar fate. Does anyone know of a reliable place in Sydney to get a waterpump refurbished?

    Please advise.

    Otherwise I might be just as well of buying yet another new one from o/s.

    Happy days
    Why so soon Craig? I've hardly ever had a water pump fail.

    We do have stories, though, of rarely used ones leaking past the seal, and the issue going away with more use, i.e. keeping the seal faces bedded in properly. These are, for example, Renault 16 water pumps, but they are all the same really, with a graphite-faced seal system, are they not?

    Have you tried the "use it every day for a while" approach? A bit like the Fangio tuning method - give it a good thrash to clear out the cobwebs.

    I've just seen a Big 6 with hydropneumatic rear suspension here in Paris (no-one is sympathetic that I'm here for work and it is FREEZING). Ice on the road this morning to Bailly, where Gazolene is based and has a get together once a month.

    I'm serious actually about the pump matter.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    CX water pumps in my experience are pretty fickle things.... They must be the most replaced item on any CX I've owned. Once you load it's bearings up with an A/C compressor your asking for trouble.

    UFO, alternator belt tension Isn't it the simple one ? They must be different on the slugomatics

    I have the rebuilt one you sold me a couple of years sitting on a shelf if your desperate (I could drop it in the post today).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    UFO
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    John

    Well perhaps it is because the car has sat relatively unused (ie 900km per year for the past two years) since I replaced that pump. Now that little UFO is home from the UK and carless he has been using Celeste CX extensively. On Saturday I cleaned the tell tale spray marks in the engine bay as much as possible and yesterday afternoon when he got home I checked and there was minor specks of coolant spray - so perhaps it is fixing itself.

    Shane - I have ordered a new one from GSF via their ebay shop and I hope it arrives prior to Xmas. We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for the offer.
    Craig K
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    John

    Well perhaps it is because the car has sat relatively unused (ie 900km per year for the past two years) since I replaced that pump. Now that little UFO is home from the UK and carless he has been using Celeste CX extensively. On Saturday I cleaned the tell tale spray marks in the engine bay as much as possible and yesterday afternoon when he got home I checked and there was minor specks of coolant spray - so perhaps it is fixing itself.

    Shane - I have ordered a new one from GSF via their ebay shop and I hope it arrives prior to Xmas. We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for the offer.
    I'd definitely monitor it closely before going to the trouble and expense of replacing it. We've definitely had examples of water pump seals coming good with use. Not old, worn out ones of course.

    Have a good Christmas.
    JohnW

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    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    He needs to back all the belt tensions off and check. My experiance with CX's is if there leaky around the water pump ........... The bearings are shot. If you find slack there, stop driving the car or it will strand you

    They seem to chew the bearings, this loads the seals and causes them to leak ( I guess the usual failure mode in most cars is, the seal weaps, allowing coolant into the pump bearings, so they eventually fail due to the coolant washing the lubricant away ... this gives you time to notice the pump leaking and fix it.... not with the CX ..... ).

    If you find the bearings are ok, loosen the radiator cap, so the system can't run any pressure until you have the new pump fitted..... watch the temp gauge on hot days though, remember it'll boil and a much lower temperature if the system isn't pressurised.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  13. #13
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    Well I've ordered the new one to have it here - just in case. Thereby probably preventing ever having to replace it! (yeah right)

    Have asked little UFO to loosen coolant cap a turn or so.
    Craig K
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Shane is right on the money. Keep a very close eye on it. Mine had given no sign of a coolant leak but completed the start leaking, wash away lubricant and destroy the bearings all in a trip from The Shire to Hornsby. I came to a halt about 7kms short of Hornsby, so all that in under 40km.

    Good to see she is getting some use though. If Blair ever moves away again, (likely), you need to move out to the sticks again so you can drive your cars more.
    Mine

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    Default Belt tensioning

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Yeah I think I might just order one. bugger!

    And double bugger - while the fitting of the pump is no biggie, no one yet has come up with an easy way to tension that bloody alternator belt up! grrrrrrrr
    Hey Craig,

    Easiest way I've come up with so far for tensioning the alternator belt on my GTi is to do it from underneath.

    Lying on my back, one hand up over the top of the alternator for applying the tension, the other for feeling the tension and using the spanner at your side for nipping up the small nut on the adjustment slider. If necessary, I loosen the pivot bolt a little as well.

    Carby cars are fairly easy to do from the top with careful use of a well-placed lever between the waterpump housing and the alternator to push the alternator down, but I haven't yet figured where to fit one in on the injected beasties.

    Fortunately we don't have to do it that often ay

    On the broader note regarding belt tension and effect on the waterpumps bearings (especially with air-con as Shane pointed out), my rule is 'as loose as possible without noise or slipping'. Hopefully this will minimise the uneven loading on the waterpump's bearings and maximise their life........if you make a belt too loose and it doesn't last as long, no biggy. It's certainly easier to put a new belt on than to put a new waterpump on.

    For what it's worth, my GTi's waterpump hasn't been touched for at least the last nine and half years and 110 000 km, with the air-con hooked up from time to time during that period too.......and seems to be still going strong......

    (of course now that I've said that......)

    Anyhoo, good luck,

    Harvey.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Shane is right on the money. Keep a very close eye on it. Mine had given no sign of a coolant leak but completed the start leaking, wash away lubricant and destroy the bearings all in a trip from The Shire to Hornsby. I came to a halt about 7kms short of Hornsby, so all that in under 40km.

    Good to see she is getting some use though. If Blair ever moves away again, (likely), you need to move out to the sticks again so you can drive your cars more.
    Wow! I'll take what you and Shane said seriously and have a good look today!!

    Thanks for that.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    ... all in a trip from The Shire to Hornsby. ...
    The big question this raises is ... Why would you ever feel the need to leave The Shire?


    Quote Originally Posted by harvey View Post
    ....
    For what it's worth, my GTi's waterpump hasn't been touched for at least the last nine and half years and 110 000 km, with the air-con hooked up from time to time during that period too.......and seems to be still going strong......

    (of course now that I've said that......)
    Hope you weren't planning on going anywhere in the next fortnight!
    Last edited by David S; 23rd December 2011 at 09:57 AM.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Two pumps in what seems a short time period ?
    Are you running the correct radiator pressure cap?

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    Fellow Frogger! denxm's Avatar
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    Default water pumps

    while the subject is current, does any one know if someone has rebuilt a xm-v6-12v-sei waterpump
    it seems you can buy 24v-s2 waterpumps without a problem, but not the s1-12v
    i have one sitting on the shelf that was starting to leak out of the hole,
    would like to have a good spare instead of a bit of alloy sitting there
    shane is right about the cx, i had two bearing failures in two cars,
    this was years ago when they cost a lot for new ones, paris motors in melbourne at the time knew someone who rebuilt them, they lasted for years

  20. #20
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Two pumps in what seems a short time period ?
    Are you running the correct radiator pressure cap?
    I checked today and it is the typical CX header tank cap - the same that has been on the car since we got it some years ago. I think the previous pump went just because it was so old and maybe, just maybe, this one has gone from lack of use.
    Craig K
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    1:30 pm today the UPS courier banged on the front door (he seems to be able to do this unlike the lazy pr1ck AusPost contractor) and delivered the new water pump. Eight days from the UK during the Xmas period! Not three bad dudes!

    So now to the replacing of the pump.
    Craig K
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  22. #22
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    I've decided to change from the tensioner running under the belts up near the waterpump pulley to having the tensioner on top of the belts and I think a little further down near the crankshaft pulley - my theory being that the belts then have better traction from a greater contact area on the wp pulley and therefore require slightly less tension.

    To do so will require new different sized belts - I believe.

    Does anyone have the belt size available? (and yes I am searching for it here too).

    Thanks
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    My '85 CX 2500 GTI has the usual belt driven aircon, water pump, hyd pump and alternator setup. Five belts in all.

    It seems imperative therefore to tension them all correctly.
    Not to mention misalignment issues. Although the latter give off more of a continuous squeal, the former intermittent chirp. (generally)

    Having pondered long on the subject of WP life I decided to relocate the aircon pulley to run direct from the cam pulley.

    Also I had Jochen from Germany send me one of his stock items- the shock reducing damper cam pulley.
    Hopefully this will also improve chain/ chain tensioner life. Poor old camshaft- must be one heckova shock torque jerk when the aircon cuts in.

    So far the results are as expected. Less belt tension needed and no noises.

    The more love you give your CX, the more you receive in return.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CX waterpump rebuilding?  Sydney?-3915_1.jpg  
    Last edited by Chimbu; 29th December 2011 at 08:32 PM. Reason: clarification

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Maybe tensioning from the top may work, however the belts will have to put up with the increased turning and pretty tight around the cam pulley and the tensioner. Although you will have the belts wrapped about the pulleys a bit more I doubt you will be able to have the two belts tensioned much less. If ever the belts squeal on the Prestige, it is always those, so they have to be done pretty tight.

    As I have learned from the years of owning Cits, and you see something that could obviously be done a different and better way I would stick with what the factory decided with the belts. Obviously they could have been fitted that way from new but for some reason they did not. They are not stupid, and I would guess they know a bit more about building a CX than you or I.

    Hope it all goes together nicely
    Mine

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  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I've always thought the tensioners run on the back of the belts. Obviously if yours runs beneath and the belts need changing to run it on top .... Leave as is I doubt it'll make any difference at all!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CX waterpump rebuilding?  Sydney?-c22.jpg   CX waterpump rebuilding?  Sydney?-1.jpg  
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 30th December 2011 at 12:19 AM.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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