It's Hot Hot Hot in Sydney
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  1. #1
    SMM
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    Default It's Hot Hot Hot in Sydney

    Not a very interesting topic for Fellow Froggers in other places, but it has prompted me to ask a question.

    I was motoring along this morning in the Xm (aka Clement). The traffic was a bit heavy for a weekend, but certainly flowing much more quickly than the Mon-Fri peak hours grind.

    The operating temp of Clement is usually around 90 degrees centigrade. It goes up every so slightly in peak hour stop-start, but not much. Until the weather gets hot. Today my trusty outside temperature guage was registering between 38 and 40 degrees centigrade. Inside it was a cool 22 degrees.

    Under the bonnet, the temperature had risen to over 100 degrees - dropped back a bit when traffic was flowing. The extra fan kicked in when things got too hot but otherwise there wasn't any problems. The same thing used to happen on a Xsara I once owned. It never happens with the odd Toyota or Holden I drive from the office pool. Why does it happen in Citroens? I wouldn't have thought the ambient temp would have that much effect on the engine.

    SMM

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Sounds like the high speed fans don't switch onto 100degrees The XM here has only ever got warmer than 90 (nearly 100) on black Saturday. The ambient was 47degrees C and the A/C really struggled.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Sounds like the high speed fans don't switch onto 100degrees The XM here has only ever got warmer than 90 (nearly 100) on black Saturday. The ambient was 47degrees C and the A/C really struggled.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    The 70 series Landcruiser with half a tonne of water on the back I was driving flat stick through the bush on Black Saturday never budged from its normal temp...

    Surely the Frog stuff should be able to cope - it does get hot in the south of France. And they do sell a lot in Spain where it gets hot.


    SMM - I think I read somewhere that a 405 diesel fan switch is good for making things come on earlier...

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    The XM fans can increase for two reasons. One, high engine temp and two, high pressure on the trinary switch on the airconditioning system. Our Xm behaves exactly the same way. My 306 Peugeot was exactly the same too. Why are European cars different to Japanese? I don't know.
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  5. #5
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by XM Mechanic View Post
    The XM fans can increase for two reasons. One, high engine temp and two, high pressure on the trinary switch on the airconditioning system. Our Xm behaves exactly the same way. My 306 Peugeot was exactly the same too. Why are European cars different to Japanese? I don't know.
    More to the point. why don't Japanese "Euro" cars mimmicked the Europeans? I think that Japanese "Euro" is only badge deep.

    Does the Toyota Landcruiser have an electric fan or is it run off an engine driven belt? The later is on constantly.

    The Citroen fans only cut in after a short analysis of Einstein's Theory of Relativity, whether the passenger is female, what colour lipstick she is wearing, the condition of the 50 relays between the temperature sensor and the fan, the viability of the fan and the ad hoc reliability of the electrical system in general.

    I think you were lucky that both the aircon kept you comfortable and that the fans did eventually come on. I didn't bother to go out in the Xantia yesterday. The blower fans still don't work. All windows down was an inappropriate response to the outside temperature. Only one of the fans is currently working. The car sits out in the sun all day. There is a shiny windscreen heat shield that may or may not be in place depending on whether my wife remembers to put it in place. Like the BX, the demister vents are starting to warp (but not crack).

    Ah, Citroen and the Sahara should ALWAYS be separated by a vast expanse of water. The Meditteranean is OK but the Pacific would be better. The good thing is that after the World warms a bit more, there will be an ice age, so hang on to your Citroens. Their day in the sun will come!

    John

  6. #6
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    My wifes Corolla temp never changes it always sits in between hot-cold. You really would have no clue whats going on under the bonnet.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    The CX gets up to the second 'e' on Jaeger on mid hot days. If it is a really hot day she might get up the first 'e'. The reason is on very hot days the trinary switch cuts in straight away whereas on mid hot days aircon head pressure does not get high enough to trip the trinary switch. Maybe we are down on a gas a tad.

    Now to more modern machines, our Xantia gets up to 90 on hot days but never over. Yesterday in the heat the radiator fans cut to high speed a few times in traffic, you can hear and feel them, with the alternator loading the engine.

    The reason others don't do this is the fan wiring. Citroens have had the series/parallel set up for the radiator fans since the CX. Temp is usually handled with the fans running in series but in extremes they can be switched to parallel, when that happens you know it. That said I would be a bit concerned if the engine temp gauge was registering over 100. The fact the XM Mechanics machine does the same is comfort though. Could be an XM thing. 95 is absolute tops for the Xantia

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  8. #8
    UFO
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    IIRC our XM used to behave similarly. All perfectly normal.
    Craig K
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  9. #9
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    The 70 series Landcruiser with half a tonne of water on the back I was driving flat stick through the bush on Black Saturday never budged from its normal temp...

    Surely the Frog stuff should be able to cope - it does get hot in the south of France. And they do sell a lot in Spain where it gets hot.


    SMM - I think I read somewhere that a 405 diesel fan switch is good for making things come on earlier...
    Landcruiser gauges have always, in my 40 years of working with them on jobs, had gauges that sat pretty much in the same place. Oil pressure, temperature, voltage etc. I've often wondered about their sensitivitiy.......
    JohnW

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Landcruiser gauges have always, in my 40 years of working with them on jobs, had gauges that sat pretty much in the same place. Oil pressure, temperature, voltage etc. I've often wondered about their sensitivitiy.......
    A reasonable thought. I know the Camrys that were exported tO the middle east had different temp guahe senders to the (otherwise identical) local Oz spec cars - so as to cater for the middle eastern preference of a low reading temp gauge....

  11. #11
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    A reasonable thought. I know the Camrys that were exported tO the middle east had different temp guahe senders to the (otherwise identical) local Oz spec cars - so as to cater for the middle eastern preference of a low reading temp gauge....
    That's interesting re the ME cars! No surprise, mind you, as one of Toyota's virtues has always been addressing what their customers actually want! You want reliable and straigtforward? We can do that. Oddly enough, it's a good formula - think Renault 12.

    I've had a Jaeger gauge in the Renault 750 for 35 years I guess and it varies all the time (no thermostat of course on a 1951 model), a Lucas electrical one in the R8 for 30 years, and again it varies a bit with conditions, and a non-original Japanese electric one in the CX and it too varies with conditions.

    The factory temp gauges in the Xantia and the 306 vary with conditions too, and give good warning of a misbehaving thermostat.

    I can report that the cars all boil when the gauges say they should, but that is another story....... Never has it been the fault of the basic design, as anything will overhead if something is wrong!

    Then I hop into a Landcruiser from time to time, and the gauge is always the same once it comes up to temperature. Always. Hmm.
    JohnW

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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I think I prefer the French approach. The old Pug 504 has a great fuel gauge - if you stop smartly and the needles moves, you know you still have some fuel in the tank! A great feature for Kirsty who seems pathologically averse to petrol stations....

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
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    both fans should always go....the only difference is the speed....if one is kicking in it means one of the fans is dead and when one kicks in it should be 2 on high speed...low speed they run in series and if one is dead nothing happens...high spedd parrelel but you'll only get one fan going....freaking dumb design thats cooked more engines than you'd believe, as no-one sems to understand this is how they work, and 3 out of 4 Ive owned were only on one fan when I bought them....check it out and get it fixed if only one fan is working because you'll cook the motor in summer

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    Fellow Frogger! cam740's Avatar
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    is i the same set up in the 405s I wonder? I can REALLY hear the fan kick in @ just under 100eg as displayed in my Mi16

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    1000+ Posts stuartb's Avatar
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    dunno about 405s but 306 406 and xantia and I think any of the dual fan models...our 307 only has a single fan...read up as it might save you a motor...ever noticed how many 306s with blown head gaskets or new radiators (ie chasing an overeating problem) there are for sale on ebay...
    http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop...an2/fanop1.htm

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    One interesting thing re gauges. The S1 Xantia has 80 degrees marked at 9 o'clock position whereas S2 have 90 degrees at that position. So In an S1 Xantia it is not unnatural for the needle to start pointing to 10 o'clock ie go over horizontal but the S2s never go over that. I'll bet it was done because customers didn't like the the needle pointing up, sign of impending doom.

    On my old Triumph TR3A if all was well all gauges pointed in the same direction. Not a bad idea
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  17. #17
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post

    On my old Triumph TR3A if all was well all gauges pointed in the same direction. Not a bad idea
    Until Lucas decided to sneeze
    Craig K
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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    On my old Triumph TR3A if all was well all gauges pointed in the same direction. Not a bad idea
    In my 2CV, none of the gauges work except the speedo which hits the post at 120kph (more like 110kph actual). Well, actually the only other guage is the fuel gauge.

    I am just happy if all the wheels point in the same direction, and there is a tailwind.

    John

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