DSpecial 1972 Interior lights & Boot light
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  1. #1
    Member danspooner's Avatar
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    Default DSpecial 1972 Interior lights & Boot light

    Hi,

    Decided to finally get the interior lights working on my '72 DSpecial. No surprise, it's not been a case of simply replacing the bulbs and all good. But, now I have invested $5 on a pair of new bulbs, I want to get them working!

    The Autobooks "1972" wiring diagram isn't particularly instructive, and the wire colours don't seem to match mine very well anyway (lots of greens, browns and blacks on my car - the wiring looms look original enough, but I can't be sure.)

    So, can anyone advise: What is the basic configuration of the circuit? Is it "live" to the interior lights, and then the dash on/off switch and the door plunger switches connect to earth to complete the circuit? Doing a few tests with my multimeter, it seems the dash on/off switch connects to earth, and the lights seem to connect to the switch. However, I'm not seeing a positive/live at the lights. I've cut back the wiring loom sheathing behind the rear seat, and there is a 3-way wire crimp connector that connects to wires running to each of the interior lights and the boot light, so I presume this is the "live" supply. So (if this is how the circuit is configured) it seems I will need to trace back from here and see where the live comes from. Any clues? And is the circuit always live, or is it switched off via the ignition key?

    Also, my boot light doesn't seem to have a plunger switch on the boot lid, unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Where should this be located? There are two wires running back to behind the rear seat, one is connected to the 3 way crimp connector, so is presumably the live, but the other is not connected to anything (it's been cut or broken off wherever it was running to).

    Any help and advice gratefully received. It's not the most important thing, but I've started now, so I want to fix it!

    Cheers,

    Dan

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! k eeles's Avatar
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    Default Boot light

    on my 74 D Special the switch is on the left hand side and secure withe the hinge bolt. Cheers. Kevin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSpecial 1972 Interior lights & Boot light-img_0663.jpg   DSpecial 1972 Interior lights & Boot light-img_0664.jpg  

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k eeles View Post
    on my 74 D Special the switch is on the left hand side and secure withe the hinge bolt. Cheers. Kevin
    That's correct, it is activated by gravity a small ball bearing which moves to make contact when the boot is opened.

    Dan, anything electrical on cars has me spooked, but as I understand the live feed to interior lights is negative - beyond that like I say I'm spooked

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    mnm
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    My 70 DSPecial has a plunger on off switch in the boot.. not at home to take a pic at the moment.. but it only comes on if the lights are on.. is that normal?

    Matthew

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    My 70 DSPecial has a plunger on off switch in the boot.. not at home to take a pic at the moment.. but it only comes on if the lights are on.. is that normal?

    Matthew
    I think if you activate the interior lamp switch or have the lights on "park" that is the normal operation.
    There are (slightly) different circuits for D Special, DS and Pallas as the interior lamp function and position is different.
    The feed originates from the left side of the dash, exits down the outside of the A pillar encased in an EPDM closed cell foam tube, runs beneath the sill (accessed from the cover on the outer decorative sill) and from there the differences depend on the model and year to power the interior lamps, however the remaining subloom continues towards the rear and enters the car once more at the base of the C pillar, just behind the fuel cell, continuing through to the rear lights. There is a metal cover to protect the sub loom in the boot area.

    Hope this helps.

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    mnm
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    I think if you activate the interior lamp switch or have the lights on "park" that is the normal operation.

    Hope this helps.
    Yes it does.. as usual.. I haven't tried the interior light switch/boot light combo. Oooh how exciting.. something else to discover...

    Easy pleased.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Check the door switches. If the is only one wire the lights have the hot connection and opening the door closes the switch which completes the circuit to the body. The gravity switch is the same deal, there is only one wire and the circuit is completed through the body.

    Before you do anything clean the door switches. I am always at the CX ones to keep the interior lights working.

    Greg
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    Member danspooner's Avatar
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    Mmm, thanks everyone for your comments. However, still a little unclear.

    First thing - definitely no boot switch, but that was no doubt where the cut off wire used to run to. So, I will wait until I can find a suitable replacement before worrying too much about that one.

    Re the interior light circuit, am I right in expecting to see a live positive 12V at the interior lights, with either the door plunger switches or the dash on/off switch completing the circuit to ground.

    Please tell me these cars don't have some crazy electrical circuit, with positive earth and negative live, or somesuch nonsense! Chris's comment is getting me worried! I have just been reading the Haynes manual for my Vespa, and some models have battery-less AC 12 volt electrics, apparently. Nice.

    Dan

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Hi Dan, still struggling with drive shafts? Lucky you have the Vespa for transport

    My "73 Pallas has simple wiring... a live 12 volt feed to the interior lights and boot light, always on. It is powered by fuse number three of the six fuse set on the passenger side (Numbered 1 to 6 left to right) which also powers boot light, indicators, blowers and reversing lights amongst other things. The door switches work by earthing the lamps as does the dashboard switch.

    If you don't have 12 volts in the center contact of the interior light bulb holders then check to see if you have 12 volts at the boot light connection. If not then you need to check the supply from the dash board.

    If 12v is present in the boot then check up in the roof rail above each center pillar.... there are two push connectors up there which may have been disconnected when your roof was re-sealed or maybe got damp and corroded at some stage.

    As you now know, the boot light switch was a gravity device attached to the left hand boot strut bracket. If you track one down get one for me too. Mine is also missing !
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by danspooner View Post
    Chris's comment is getting me worried! I have just been reading the

    Dan
    Hi Dan,
    Sorry to cause palpitations

    Michael's explaination makes better sense of what I think I was trying to say

    A PM to Hotrodelectric would possibly clarify, he is our resident DS auto electrician (though he may not know that)...

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Member ss2115's Avatar
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    If you PM me with your email address, I can send you a wiring diagram if its of any assist.
    Its too big to upload as an attachment to the thread unfortunately at 1.2Mb.
    DS23 Citroen Safari - 1974 (restoration and modifications).
    BMW 525i Touring - 1993 (current drive car).
    Golf Mk3 2 litre - 1997 (rejuvinate for the daughter)
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    Toyota Rav4 - 1996 (given to the son. most reliable vehicle of all of them)

  12. #12
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    Hi Dan, still struggling with drive shafts? Lucky you have the Vespa for transport

    My "73 Pallas has simple wiring... a live 12 volt feed to the interior lights and boot light, always on. It is powered by fuse number three of the six fuse set on the passenger side (Numbered 1 to 6 left to right) which also powers boot light, indicators, blowers and reversing lights amongst other things. The door switches work by earthing the lamps as does the dashboard switch.

    If you don't have 12 volts in the center contact of the interior light bulb holders then check to see if you have 12 volts at the boot light connection. If not then you need to check the supply from the dash board.

    If 12v is present in the boot then check up in the roof rail above each center pillar.... there are two push connectors up there which may have been disconnected when your roof was re-sealed or maybe got damp and corroded at some stage.

    As you now know, the boot light switch was a gravity device attached to the left hand boot strut bracket. If you track one down get one for me too. Mine is also missing !
    Michael's explaination is a good one, except the only power output to the dome lamps will be at the rear connection group on the left side of the dash, either under (later cars) or clipped over (earlier cars) the fresh air box. Accessing this means removing the dash. The color code will be black. You really do want to find the problem where Michael suggests. Something else to consider: the terminals at the lamp socket themselves may have corroded juuuuuuuuuuuust enough to cause a faulty lamp-to-socket connection.

    You can also try loosening then retightening the main ground connection behind the dash. Now, on our cars, it's accessable by removing the instrument cluster. You might need to remove the center section of the dash to gain some (painful) access.

    For your trunk switch, try an electronics store. They should have the ball, and mercury style switches. Either will work, you just have to set them up.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    A PM to Hotrodelectric would possibly clarify, he is our resident DS auto electrician (though he may not know that)...

    Cheers
    Chris
    Gee, Chris, thanks for outing me
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Gee, Chris, thanks for outing me


    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Michael's explaination is a good one, except the only power output to the dome lamps will be at the rear connection group on the left side of the dash, either under (later cars) or clipped over (earlier cars) the fresh air box. Accessing this means removing the dash.
    That is why I suggested testing for power supply to the boot lamp... presumably they share a feed and if the boot light has 12v then I am guessing the problem is aft of the dashboard. If no 12v in the boot then a whole new can of worms.

    I know Dan's car had some roof leak problems in the past (don't they all??) so corrosion in the connectors in the roof rail seem a likely suspect.

    Thanks for the suggestion for the gravity switch, I will check at Jaycar.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  16. #16
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    That is why I suggested testing for power supply to the boot lamp... presumably they share a feed and if the boot light has 12v then I am guessing the problem is aft of the dashboard. If no 12v in the boot then a whole new can of worms.

    I know Dan's car had some roof leak problems in the past (don't they all??) so corrosion in the connectors in the roof rail seem a likely suspect.

    Thanks for the suggestion for the gravity switch, I will check at Jaycar.
    I'm not sure about the Oz market cars, but on the Yank cars, our trunk lamp was powered from the headlight switch in either the marker lamp/tail lamp or the headlamp position. Certainly easy to check out.

    Corrosion at the roof- yah. Definitely check at those points. Maybe even go as far as pulling the lamp from the roof pillar and checking the connections there, too. Was it mentioned if just one, or none of the lamps are working?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  17. #17
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    now I'm feeling guilty!

    I've had my DS23EFI auto for 3 years and the only thing not working is the interior and boot lights.

    I've checked at the boot light and interior lights and there is no 12V so it is apparent that the 12V feed from the dashboard area isn't there for some reason and pulling the whole dash out to investigate looks all to hard.

    Question, does the wiring from the dash area go down through the LH lower sill and up the B pillar to the lights, how does it get from the LH side to the RH side interior light ?

    Cheers,


    Mal

  18. #18
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcook View Post
    now I'm feeling guilty!

    I've had my DS23EFI auto for 3 years and the only thing not working is the interior and boot lights.

    I've checked at the boot light and interior lights and there is no 12V so it is apparent that the 12V feed from the dashboard area isn't there for some reason and pulling the whole dash out to investigate looks all to hard.

    Question, does the wiring from the dash area go down through the LH lower sill and up the B pillar to the lights, how does it get from the LH side to the RH side interior light ?

    Cheers,


    Mal
    It's really convoluted, Mal. The wiring follows from the rear connection to a foam sheathed cable behind the left front fender, into a hole at the chassis, then back along the chassis to a very difficult-to-get-at hole in the very left rear corner behind the seat back, at the floor. From there, it branches out to the rear lamps, and also to the sail panel at the roof. From there, it splits once again for left and right dome lamps. The left side follows the roof rail, and on to the lamp. The right side follows the rear roof structure, then, as the left, follows the roof rail to the lamp. The trunk lamp is branched out about the top of the left rear inner fender.

    Switch on the headlights, then check your boot lamp. The two circuits aren't interconnected.

    The easiest check is pull your roof lamps- battery off- then reconnect the power, and see if you get anything. Just be careful- you don't want to blow fuses while you're testing. Battery off again, try cleaning the lamp contacts as best you can.

    The sedans are difficult to replace a rear harness in. The wagons are diabolical.


    Edit- Michael is right. The harness splits left/right at the floor, not the roof.
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 26th July 2011 at 12:12 PM. Reason: wrong info
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcook View Post
    now I'm feeling guilty!

    I've had my DS23EFI auto for 3 years and the only thing not working is the interior and boot lights.

    I've checked at the boot light and interior lights and there is no 12V so it is apparent that the 12V feed from the dashboard area isn't there for some reason and pulling the whole dash out to investigate looks all to hard.

    Question, does the wiring from the dash area go down through the LH lower sill and up the B pillar to the lights, how does it get from the LH side to the RH side interior light ?

    Cheers,Mal
    No, the loom after travelling aft along the sill goes up to under the rear seat where it spilts to allow a branch to go to the right hand side of the car. It then continues to the parcel shelf to supply the rear window demister then on up the C pillar behind the "cushion" to the roof rail then forward on top of the rail to the LH interior light.

    The branch to the RHS crosses the car under the seat back and follows a similar path along the RHS roof rail.

    On the roof rail at the top of the B pillars there are push on connectors to connect to the leads of the interior lights.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  20. #20
    Member danspooner's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    Thanks for all these replies. Seems I know where to look now - but unfortunately that place is behind the dash or the front LH wing! The wiring loom at the back is as Michael describes, and I've stripped some of the insulation and found a 3-way crimp connector behind the rear seat that feeds each interior lamp and the boot lamp. No 12V, so the problem must be up front.

    Mal, no need to feel guilty - I can see myself giving up on this one for a while, it seems like a lot of trouble for something that's hardly a car-stopper! More important for me to focus on drive shafts, tri-axes, and impossible to separate ball joints at the moment! But, at least I now know where to look, once I've attended to more pressing matters - like getting my car off axle stands and back on the road!

    Cheers!

    Dan

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    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post

    For your trunk switch, try an electronics store. They should have the ball, and mercury style switches. Either will work, you just have to set them up.
    Here it is! For $4.45 each from Jaycar. A good size and even comes with a piece of double sided tape. I will put a pic up when I have it fitted.

    http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp...y&form=KEYWORD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSpecial 1972 Interior lights &amp; Boot light-mercury-switch.jpg  
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    Here it is! For $4.45 each from Jaycar. A good size and even comes with a piece of double sided tape. I will put a pic up when I have it fitted.

    http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp...y&form=KEYWORD
    Looks good Michael, maybe make a small bracket and fix to a hinge bolt, double side tape may not be very permanent?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  23. #23
    Member danspooner's Avatar
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    Where should the wire run to the switch - up through the boot, or out the back of the car on the LH side of the parcel shelf, through the rear pillar?

  24. #24
    Member danspooner's Avatar
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    And how convenient - there is a Jaycar store 2 minutes round the corner from where I live! I will stroll round tomorrow morning and splash out $4.45! Still got to get to the dodgy connector behind the dash though, to get the live to the boot and interior light circuits!

    Cheers Michael!

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