Is this the best project car you have ever seen?
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  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default Is this the best project car you have ever seen?

    Hi Guys,

    I finally have a car here that basically just needs some paint splashed on it rather than an mega long massively indepth project of " 100's hours of rebuilding and replacement of severaly bent and rusted metal all over hull and body". Gee's I better pay for this car in a hell of a hurry.





    This is Rogers car ... There's been a joke going back and forth between us for years, will I sell him my black ID19 to donate it's motor to this car ... or will he sell me this

    -You could use my black ID19 as a " DO NOT BUY " guide if you to a piccie of all of it's bad spots.... It's that desperate it's just sitting 'cos I don't what to do with it ( HUGE rust repair required on it's structure ).
    -This car you could use as a "what you want to find" guide if you took a picture of it's bad spots .... 'Cos there not bad !!!....

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    I remember when Roger picked this car up years ago .... I thought "Ugly paint and ugly colour, but the boot area looks ok" ...

    I got it home and my father said "what do you want another heap of sh!t that you'll never do anything with for" ....... Then we started to look around it.

    This is bloody incredible. I can't believe Roger found this car. For starters .... Look at the first picture above .... You haven't noticed right ??? I was amazed when I pushed all the doors fully closed ..... Look at the panel fit ... bugger me, the panels all match each other. I've never seen an early 'D' that's this good unless someone that knows what they are doing has spent hundreds of hours beating and setting up the panel fit.



    dead motor .. with a head that can't come off without removing it from the car. Yes it really does look that ugly under the bonnet... It's all surface rust from sitting for so long and has 48years of dirt and muck there. We'll fix that, don't you worry.



    The sills you step over there, usually are really crunchy and rusty under that grey trim ... Infact most are torn with huge holes down the length of the box members. I can feel one spot that maybe suspect about the size of your small finger nail. I'll try to inject oil under all those trims if i can and leave them intact (there still the orginal trim). Really good.



    ... .This here's a proper car ... not a shitty thing with bouncy springs :no:



    I like the period clock someone has fitted. The temp gauge doesn't really suite though... but will stay ... simply 'cos it tells us the temperature!



    I dont think I've seen this before... an un-rusted lip over the top of the guards. Yes the rubber bit is crumbly as hell... but the rubber holder is perfect






    I peeled the shit off around the boot walls .. the floor is good (re-pained at some point). the walls are good (surface rust colour).



    This here is what an original "french type" boot seal looks like. All the rubber holders are perfect and not rusty !!



    Above the other wheel ... perfect .




    There is now one good alluminium roof in my yard.... the rest are all sh!t, the crimped on edge has heavily corroded away from the roof. This one appears perfect. It looks like 40year old rock hard mastic sealing the roof. Inside the car the roof rails are still a nice painted black colour. I don't think this roof has ever leaked. I grabbed the back edge and tried to shake shit out of the roof..... The structure is rock solid. Most wobble around due to C-pillar and roof rail rust. How on earth did he find such a brilliant car ??
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    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Somone has already painted the floors. Much like all the black factory paint, you can see the surface rust breaking through under this ... it'll all need to be redone before the car gets wet.



    Does anyone recognise the car by the interesting "access hatch" to the boot ?







    I must have at least 30 different early "D" panels here .... the only thing they have in common being there all junk. The panels on this car are also brilliant. Take the door. No stress fracturs at the top, no signs of rust in the skin, the lower rubber door holder .... appears perfect Every panel on this car is vastly better than any of the other panels I have here. Even the front undertray that you can see is bent and rusty (water pools in the bottom of them) in the picture above.



    Another indication the roof has never leaked, look how good the trim above the back window and 'C' pillars is ... white, not stained/water marked.



    Finally I found some rust ... there's sure to be more to be found ... but damn this car is exceptional. There is a substantial hole where the passenger floor should be. This car is so good I'll order the correct profile floor section to repair it with. The rust isn't back into any of the sills. It must have sat with a wet front floor for an extended period of time




    I decided to make the car easier to move in and out so I can work on the CX /XM and get them finished that I should pull that heavy lump out (it'll move around much easier with the motor out). I'll then put some sticks in the suspension cylinders to hold it up as well.





    The tub of fasteners and brackets to head upto the platers .... Given I have two cars to pull the motors from I'll fill this bucket ... then replace all the mongrel fasterners that shouldn't be there (I could never get the other car right as it was missing so many fasteners. Now I have 2 extra parts cars I'll be able to actually assemble one correctly. These early cars have a different thread pitch, so forget your fasteners from later DS's ... there different ! ).
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    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Tub to throw all the bits that need to be sandblasted clean of rust and re-coated prior to assembly.











    Piccies .... so we can hopefully remember how the hell this thing goes back together. Throwing all the fasteners in a tub makes life bloody difficult as you can't remember what goes where in 3month time when I get back to this (yes I want this car on club rego by christmas.... It'll be great to throw Roger the keys and say "take her for a spin"). Fortunatly I'll have the parts ID that'll stay intact to reference for re-assembly.

    I have to finish the CX and XM before this car can be started on. I'll just start this prep part so everything is there ready to go when the others are out of the way

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! rmac's Avatar
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    Some people have all the luck. We never had many here in the West to start with so finding any after so long is almost impossible. Enjoy the 'treasure' 'cos you won't ever win the lotteries now! You've used all your luck.
    Current Cars
    2011 C5 2.0HDi Comfort
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    1981 Citroen CX 2400 Pallas C-matic,
    1981 Citroen CX 2400ie Super Familiale C-matic - Raid Arctique 2014
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    I'm impressed

    It looks far better than many of the cars I owned in the 70s and 80s - as you know 30+ years could have had that car in a pile of dust. Very well preserved.

    Do you have a plan, is this a nuts and bolts restoration, or preserve and maintain patina? This thread will become epic, look forward to following your progress.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'd love to leave it as is ... just tidy up and stick the motor in. However it's factory black paint all over the hull has surface rust breaking through. What's saved this car is it's obviously sat in dry sheds for at least the last 25years. If it even get parked outside in wet grass for one winter I have no doubt it'll be buggered (due to the lack of waterproof paint on it's structure).

    The ancient laquer paint is heavily damaged back to the metal. In theory, yes I could just paint the hull, but if the outer panels get wet, they would also rust from beneath

    This really is a simple "paint and forget" tidy up.

    Any suggestions on a "brake fluid proof" black paint ?? Maybe just buy a big bucket of epoxy primer and urethane black and cover the whole car in it ?

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post

    Any suggestions on a "brake fluid proof" black paint ?? Maybe just buy a big bucket of epoxy primer and urethane black and cover the whole car in it ?

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    In the past I would have suggested POR but I'm not convinced it is as good in this situation as promoted (though I do recommend their Marine-Clean and Metal-Ready for preparation). I think because you have the safety gear epoxy primer and urethane could be a better option, can you give it a softer (satin) finish rather than high gloss?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    can you give it a softer (satin) finish rather than high gloss?

    Cheers
    Chris
    It's called dirt and muck right .....

    Yeah you can add a flattener to urethane to knock the gloss off. Take a look at the compliance plate piccie and you'll see what I mean by the hull MUST be stripped back and painted before the car gets wet.



    See the surface rust breaking through ?? Most metal surfaces on the car are like this.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    best part of the car is the radio

    the rest of it's no bloody good, the panels are falling off it
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    best part of the car is the radio

    the rest of it's no bloody good, the panels are falling off it
    ... yeah, not held on by enough bolts!

    Being locally assembled, I'd hazard a guess they may have used something like GMH chassis black, which is actually a nitrocellulose paint, goes dull easily but is still readily available without a prescription. Check how glossy it is under some fittings.

    I would probably not go the POR route again. Certainly, it's a mistake for anyone to think they can just splash it on and solve all their rust problems. Rust isn't so easily subdued!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! ARCHRIVAL's Avatar
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    wot year looks like we are now blood brothers Shane not 62 by chance reminds me that I have to get back into the workshop
    BX 16v 89, I Renault Floride 62, Volvo P1800 68, Aston Martin DB6 68, Daimler 250V8 68, Jaguar XJC 76, Falcon Ute XL 62, Falcon Ute XY 4WD, Jeep Grand Larado 03, Mazda 6 Wagon 05, inter 483 tractor 86, makita cordless drill CX TURBO its dented D Special 1 62 ID192000 Xantia V6 2000 Cadillac STS stolen by the princess,KANGA 720DL LOADER

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post

    This really is a simple "paint and forget" tidy up.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    shane, i wish you were young enough for me to say 'ah, the callowness of youth', but, alas...

    ps. dont have the baby sandblasted too by mistake!

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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    Default very nice.

    I like your idea of removing the body, sealing the chassis, dropping in the good motor and then just cleaning it and putting it back together. It's got a great patina!

    mb

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    DS
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    I searched for this cars number in the sales ledgers held by the CCCNSW and the closest I could get was 192000944 (one number off this car). The one I found was sold new 2/5/1963 to a guy in Bathurst NSW.
    Citroen Car Club of New South Wales member.

    My Citroen ID21F can be seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/frontdr...7605999522616/

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    Thank God I'm a Frenchman harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    What are the chances of finding the origins of
    DS 23 IE Pallas
    DSFG
    01 FG6899

    Engine DX5
    06830016217.

    Anything in the sales ledgers or anywhere ?. The rumour went this was a French High Commission car in New Caledonia, but I think this is Hogwash because it is RHD, english dials and wrong colour for embassy car.. Hence I would like to know if it was sold new in Sydney around 1974-75
    Cheers.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Congratulations on a lovely original car. Our 1961 heidelburg ID was in a very similiar condition when we bought it, the body was fantastic, no welding needed, the mechanics were shot - brakes in the boot, master cylinder missing, exhaust manifold missing and a hole in the sump - but who cared! the body was great. |Unfortunately the scottish weather has taken its toll on the very thin layer of paint and surface rust is coming through so it is now being prepped for a respray (as soon as the sun starts shining again!)
    Good luck with the job
    cheers
    Helmut

  17. #17
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    Default C'mon Shane!

    This thread started at 2.49pm and this car is still not finished! You are really slacking off!
    And I wouldn't be leaving anything out in the weather tonight! - based on the forecasts for this part of the world.
    The car looks a gem.
    You must be so pleased. The new house / facilities might make your task a little easier.
    Good luck with the good work.
    Is this the ONE?

    Cheers,

    David

  18. #18
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    This thread started at 2.49pm and this car is still not finished! You are really slacking off!
    David
    He's had the car since at least Sunday. I reckon he's going soft in his old age.

  19. #19
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    He's had the car since at least Sunday. I reckon he's going soft in his old age.
    to keep in tune with his normal work habits, Shane will have to break a few parts of it first
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    OMG
    That car looks alot like the DS19 Flambe' before the immolation.

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah I could leave it as ... I'm sure the "ferral car club" above would happily accept it .... so long as I didn't make it look pretty too

    Has anyone heard of or tried epoxy mastic ??

    http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/anot...nt-173895.html

    THe rustoleum version (PPG do one too)
    http://www.rustoleum.com/tds/2032990%20RO-51.pdf

    This stuff sounds ideal. You could paint the hull with a brush all over, yet get the protection offered by an epoxy finish. The visible bits you'd overcoat with some urethane black. (eg: top half of the engine compartment and boot). Then any damage in the future can be fixed by dragging out a touchup paint brush. It avoids having to spray inside the car too ... and spray "upside down" from beneath to do the bottom of the car.

    What do you guys reckon ??? ...

    Archrival, she's a '63, so the 2nd front ( my favorite ), and high pressure brakes. I'd probably die of fright everytime I used the brakes in an earlier car 'cos my brain would be saying "touch pedal with your big toe" .... when in reality you need to stand on the pedal with both feet and pull on the steering wheel in panic to apply enough force

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  22. #22
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Yeah I could leave it as ... I'm sure the "ferral car club" above would happily accept it .... so long as I didn't make it look pretty too

    Has anyone heard of or tried epoxy mastic ??

    http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/anot...nt-173895.html

    THe rustoleum version (PPG do one too)
    http://www.rustoleum.com/tds/2032990%20RO-51.pdf

    This stuff sounds ideal. You could paint the hull with a brush all over, yet get the protection offered by an epoxy finish. The visible bits you'd overcoat with some urethane black. (eg: top half of the engine compartment and boot). Then any damage in the future can be fixed by dragging out a touchup paint brush. It avoids having to spray inside the car too ... and spray "upside down" from beneath to do the bottom of the car.

    What do you guys reckon ??? ...

    Archrival, she's a '63, so the 2nd front ( my favorite ), and high pressure brakes. I'd probably die of fright everytime I used the brakes in an earlier car 'cos my brain would be saying "touch pedal with your big toe" .... when in reality you need to stand on the pedal with both feet and pull on the steering wheel in panic to apply enough force

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Shane I don't know the answer, but I'm sure I'm not alone

    The concern I have with products that cure rock hard is that the rust can still be active underneath, rotting away relatively undetected. A softer coating will protect and should give clues of rust activity ealier? Whatever you use on the exposed outer surfaces will not stop what is happening on the inside of channels/ rails etc, you'll need a very good protectant sprayed into those areas (Lanolin)?

    A washing machine is a good example of how rust can be deceptive under a hard coating, the enamel/ceramic is sometimes all that is left after the rust has eaten the metal underneath

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah... box sections ect... will have something like lanoguard sprayed into them(as will the roof areas, under the brake pedal box etc...). I still need a decent starting point. This stuff sounds like a good epoxy primer rather than a "rust encapsulator" such as POR

    The bonus is you can overcoat it if you need to in the future

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I am by no means a good restorer of cars but I often clean the area best I can and apply PENETROL which is a rust inhibitor.
    Then I apply ZINC OXIDE PRIMER which also can have Penetrol mixed in and after that I paint with whatever colour.
    I find this good in the boot ( trunk for the Yanks ) areas etc.

    Good luck with this one. I've seen better but also a whole lot worse.

    And Helmut, if you read this, - - - that car of yours was in very good, clean and complete condition when I sold it for $1000 or so to the guy Bathurst way. It might have needed some motor work and definitely the radiator doing and the front brakes were seizing up. Michael said that when he saw you in Scotland you indicated that the car wasn't all that complete so that must have happened after I sold it. It didn't have canola in at that stage either.

    At least here is another that will hopefully feel the road at a decent speed once more.

    Have fun, John Paas.

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilberthenry View Post
    I am by no means a good restorer of cars but I often clean the area best I can and apply PENETROL which is a rust inhibitor.
    Then I apply ZINC OXIDE PRIMER which also can have Penetrol mixed in and after that I paint with whatever colour.
    I find this good in the boot ( trunk for the Yanks ) areas etc.

    Good luck with this one. I've seen better but also a whole lot worse.

    And Helmut, if you read this, - - - that car of yours was in very good, clean and complete condition when I sold it for $1000 or so to the guy Bathurst way. It might have needed some motor work and definitely the radiator doing and the front brakes were seizing up. Michael said that when he saw you in Scotland you indicated that the car wasn't all that complete so that must have happened after I sold it. It didn't have canola in at that stage either.

    At least here is another that will hopefully feel the road at a decent speed once more.

    Have fun, John Paas.
    Thanks John,

    you have better ?? Are they for sale Certainly the DS19 you sold Roger is one of the most structurly sound cars left.

    I think if you can pull apart an old ID to this point and still find little evidence of major rust, your doing well IMO. I pulled the nosecone off last night. One chassis horn is slightly bent (a gentle nudge in the nose at some point.... We already know about this as the bumper is slightly bent and the undertray dented.... peice of cake to fix). However this has allowed moisture down into the chassis horn so there is a rust hole in the bottom of only one of them .............. You know, it's still one of the best I've come across. Most you look at already had plates welded over the lower box sections out on the nose 40years ago

    There's no doubt this one will be on the road in a few months time wearing a set of club registration plates. Then over time we can prep/paint the panels. I don't mind the "aged" look, it's earnt all the crazed paint and battle scars it already has .

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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