2003 C5 rotor life and shuddering
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  1. #1
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    Default 2003 C5 rotor life and shuddering

    Hi All

    Would it be unusual for a 2003 C5 to have massive front brake rotor wear? the car has done 115,000 K

    The rotors are well and truely worn out and are a good 1.5 cm worn on each face. too far gone to be machined.

    strange thing is that no warning light has ever come on advising this and the pads are like new.

    The car has also developed a severe shudder at high speed (not when braking. tyres are balanced and not worn) the shudder starts at about 80kmh but doesnt stop even when slowing down to 50 kmh and lower. its weird as it doesnt do it every time and it seems more engine related than wheels and steering.

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  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    the front discs have done 115,000kms? that's very very good, depending on driving they usually do 40 - 60k. the light does not come on until the pad is worn. the shudder could be a drive shaft? they are known to fail in the early c5's.

  3. #3
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    i have a feeling it might be the drive shafts as it definately not the wheels or alignment

    I dread to think how much new discs are let alone new drive shafts. seen plenty on uk ebay that are reasonable prices but here in Aus ???

    seems that issues on C5s come thick and fast

    cheers

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! BallinaOB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluery View Post

    I dread to think how much new discs are let alone new drive shafts. seen plenty on uk ebay that are reasonable prices but here in Aus ???
    Check prices with European Auto Imports (http://www.eai.net.au/c5parts2.html), they import directly and seem to be quite competitive with UK online sites and much cheaper than Citroen Australia.

    Cheers,
    Tony

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Since the ban on asbestos, the replacement materials in the pads have increased wear on the disks. This is not confined to CitroÍns or French cars. I changed a set of four disks on a Renault Espace recently. The price of disks is such that it is cheaper to replace than to put on a lathe and machine down. 100k of normal driving is typical.
    Another issue arises when you use pads from after market sources and the properties are different from the manufacturer's specs.This can transfer the wear from the pads to the disks.
    It is yet another area where you risk safety and warranties if you deviate from the car maker's approved OEM specs.
    Your only problem is finding a cost effective supply chain to Aus.
    Just as a benchmark. For this car at Oscaro.com the prices are in France
    Set of four front pads 26 euros
    Set of two front disks 55 euros
    and drive shafts 146 euros each
    all plus tax - here 19.5%
    Last edited by gerry freed; 15th June 2011 at 10:36 PM.
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  6. #6
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluery View Post

    seems that issues on C5s come thick and fast

    cheers
    I'd consider 115k on a set of discs to be very good - no cause for complaint there. I'm on 70k with a set - and they are nearing the end of their life.

    As for the issues of a C5 "come on thick and fast" - a duff driveshaft is a wear and tear item and can be placed down to a multitude of things. I wouldn't consider it to be a make or break item with the car
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    I'd agree, that km's are good for an original set of discs on a C5. Most discs these days aren't really tolerant to machining if I understand it. If you read the original thickness and specs for minimums, there is little wear allowence in the original thickness.

    I was at a suspension specialists, with a fellow a/fer the other day and we were talking about wheel nut torques. The newer Faclons have huge numbers for torque on wheel nuts and apparantly can warp discs if the torque isn't correct. Maybe this is also the problem with some of the warpage in the PSA cars(?), not necessarily in this particular C5. My guess the shudder here would just be thin discs and the pads causing hot spots from pads sitting on the discs after stopping at the lights??



    RDA for the discs if they have them. Find a local distributor in your area from their website. Have their rotors on my SCenic, very good price, quality matches OEM as far as I can tell. EBC regular pads and still good after 2 yeras so far, excellent braking. Cost for 4wheel set with pads was less than OEM fitted for fronts alone. As long as you are able to fit the things yourself you should be OK.
    Last edited by HONG KONG PUGGY; 16th June 2011 at 09:26 AM.
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  8. #8
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluery View Post
    Hi All

    Would it be unusual for a 2003 C5 to have massive front brake rotor wear? the car has done 115,000 K

    The rotors are well and truely worn out and are a good 1.5 cm worn on each face. too far gone to be machined.

    strange thing is that no warning light has ever come on advising this and the pads are like new.

    The car has also developed a severe shudder at high speed (not when braking. tyres are balanced and not worn) the shudder starts at about 80kmh but doesnt stop even when slowing down to 50 kmh and lower. its weird as it doesnt do it every time and it seems more engine related than wheels and steering.
    Sounds pretty good to me. Our 306 didn't get more out of the front rotors, with gentle driving.

    As others have said, we are paying the price for asbestos-free pads (cheaper than the human cost of asbestos mind you). Our Renault R8 got 300,000 km out of the front rotors. But then they wore below spec, and it is a lot lighter than a C5.
    JohnW

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  9. #9
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Since the ban on asbestos, the replacement materials in the pads have increased wear on the disks. This is not confined to CitroÍns or French cars. I changed a set of four disks on a Renault Espace recently. The price of disks is such that it is cheaper to replace than to put on a lathe and machine down. 100k of normal driving is typical.
    Another issue arises when you use pads from after market sources and the properties are different from the manufacturer's specs.This can transfer the wear from the pads to the disks.
    It is yet another area where you risk safety and warranties if you deviate from the car maker's approved OEM specs.
    Your only problem is finding a cost effective supply chain to Aus.
    Just as a benchmark. For this car at Oscaro.com the prices are in France
    Set of four front pads 26 euros
    Set of two front disks 55 euros
    and drive shafts 146 euros each
    all plus tax - here 19.5%
    I'm not allowed to ask where the NOS asbestos pads went I suppose.........
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi guys
    Discs for C5 must be replaced with pad change, also I've seen the censor wires ceramic end completely worn away and still no dash warning, I reckon the wire fails to make proper contact due to all the brake dust [read brake crud].
    Replacement Discs can be purchased which are made in Australia. Go to a proper brake specialist and order them through him, suppliers are wholesale only. Cost $60. each. Pads can be bought from same supplier, prices are very competitive.
    I chased all over Aus and still couldn't find any cheaper fronts. Backs were a little cheaper elsewhere but I prefer to get everything for the one job at once. Your choice.

    My supplier places my order and I pick the parts up from the warehouse straight away, just down the road from home. gotta be lucky sometimes.

  11. #11
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    Great advise. anyone know any brake specialists in Sydney?

  12. #12
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    Colliers Automotive Granville.

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    The normal disc is 26mm thick with 24mm the minimum. What looks like massive wear might not be so bad. BTW machining takes at least 0.3mm off.
    The fashion seems to be to change original pads with something less dusty, which probably means harder pads.

    I got 235000km out of the front rotors on a C5 Petrol Break, however they were 1mm below the 24mm minimum by that stage. By contrast my rear rotors are still going strong.
    You can source front rotors and pads from good brake specialists in Australia now... I imported mine last year because I couldn't find the right parts here with certainty. (Bendix does not list C5 pads, but lists C1 to C6!?)

    If you have "steel" wheels, have they been replaced under the recall in 2002-3? All 5 steel wheels were replaced by alloy wheels that like just like steel. Long shot, but worth checking if they are warped.
    Check the bushes and the engine mounts as they might be worn and things will be wobbling a little.

    Front rotors and pads are not too hard to change yourself. You'll need Torx wrenches to unbolt the rotors and a cubic socket to wind the pistons back. But I got an expert to bleed and replace the brake fluid.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Another thing to watch is the traction control which will come on at around 60kph onwards. If it senses a binding of one wheel, even slight, it will put the brake on and off continuously on the opposite wheel until the vehicle stops. Usually acompanied by a rumbling/clicking sound from that wheel. Just something to watch for, even after a rebuild.

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