DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Default DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point

    Hi everyone

    Things are creeping closer to putting the engine into the car. Got points for the dizzy but no luck on the condenser or rotor or dizzy cap or injection trigger points locally, so I'll have to get it from Geert some time.

    My problem now, where the hell do you hook up the vacuum advance to the engine? And the little cover on the dash of the EFI that covers the choke on the carby cars, how does it look? It possible to get it somewhere? I didn't get one with my car, any ideas?

    Thanks
    Corne

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    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Ok since no one knows I'll make a plan and figure it out

    Next problem, I thought I got points, but sadly they look the same but they are a mirrir image of eachother so it will not work

    Does someone know what the bosch part number is for the points??

    I hope you guys can help me I am getting quite desperate here, I got my gearbox back so now I want to put the engine assembly back into the car to get on with the resto

    Thanks
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
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  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'll take a look at my DS21 tomorow. the issue is I doubt it's right as it's been messed with so much in the past. The vacuum advance however should be ok anywhere it'll plug on that's hooked to the inlet manifold downstream of the throttle body.

    seeya
    Shane L.
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  4. #4
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    But if it has injection trigger points should it HAVE a normal vacuum advance unit .. I don't recall .. but memory says no...maybe a different batch or part number from mine.

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    There's a point ... I was just about to agree that I can't remember there being an advance unit ... but I'm wrong if you look at the injection manaul



    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Ok Thanks Shane

    I'll see where there may be a spot to hook on the advance, I didn't bother with it when I got the car because she has been standing for years so didn't dare start her.

    Good thing I didn't the oil pump passages had very thick, almost paste like oil in the passages, super fast engine killer!

    Wanna start the engine

    Now the bloody points and advance.

    Shane if you could check on your 21 the dizzy number mine is 0 231 163 005
    and underneath that is another code JFURX 4 <----- I gave Bosch that number and they gave me these points 1 237 013 044

    Like I said it's a mirror image of the points in my dizzy

    At the Bosch agency the computer had a 2D picture of the dizzy, it had no place for trigger points but vacuum advance yes.

    I also thought it possible that this is not the correct unit but maby it is.

    Ok I am going to take a picture of the points and of the dizzy then you'll see the difference between the new and old points.

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Ok here's pictures of the dizzy and points, I do notice my vacuum unit's nipple points down instead of upwards

    Anyway






    New points on the left, see the mirror image, new ones don't fit, although the dizzy number is supposed to use this points



    My engine at the moment, just waiting for slave servo on the gearbos's seals



    Another shot of the "beast"

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I did remember right ... Mine doesn't have vacuum advance! (good those things always die and can't easily be replaced ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point-dsie1.jpg   DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point-dsie2.jpg  
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
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    There I was right..there is life in the old brain yet !!!!

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    I had someone check their DS23 IE and his got vacuum advance too, maby the later ones had vacuum advance?

    Probably the orinigal one packed up and they used a 23's distributor instead?

    I want to have a look at the 123 ignition systems, I think their units for the ijection also had a vacuum advance unit?

    Shane is it possible to get the bosch number of your dizzy? I have this slight idea that they could have used the casing of this unit but all internal parts comes from the orinigal unit... Maby the orinigal dizzy's casing got damaged

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

  11. #11
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    Default Ds efi

    I am completely flumoxed by what I am reading here.I have 3 DS EFI,s 1970 ,71 and74
    PLus 4 spare dissies and also a 123 EFI dissy,also I have a number of mates with same
    I have never seen one with a vacuum advance.
    Regarding the connection of the vac pipe, on Pommie cars this is connected to the carby in such a way that there is no vac advance at idle(makes sense-smoother idle)otherwise full manifold vacuum.
    Woody

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    LOL then this is a one of a kind D have. This car must have been running with this Distributor a while and what looks like it must have ran ok.

    I remember certain Mercedeses of the same era used the D-jetronic system, could it be possible that this could be a dizzy of a Mercedes?

    Every mechanic friend I have says vacuum advance is better than non vacuum advance, do you guys agree??

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

  13. #13
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    My 1970 DS21 EFI Hydraulic distributor had a vacuum advance capsule that wasn't connected. It's possible that the very early EFI cars had the unused capsule or maybe it was only the hydraulic cars perhaps.
    Cheers, Richard

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    My car is not an injected one but also seems to be a bit unusual. It was once a '73 DS23 carby but is now fitted with a DX engine (early DS21 motor).

    It is fitted with a distributor with vacuum advance and appears to be off an injected car as it has a plug on the side which appears to be for a crank position sensor. The inlet manifold is fitted with a vacuum tapping which has been blanked off.

    Can any one identify the distributor and do you think it best to re-connect the vacuum?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point-dizzy_600x450.jpg   DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point-rotor_600x450.jpg   DS21 IE dizzy vacuum advance connecting point-tapping_600x450.jpg  
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    My car is not an injected one but also seems to be a bit unusual. It was once a '73 DS23 carby but is now fitted with a DX engine (early DS21 motor).

    It is fitted with a distributor with vacuum advance and appears to be off an injected car as it has a plug on the side which appears to be for a crank position sensor. The inlet manifold is fitted with a vacuum tapping which has been blanked off.

    Can any one identify the distributor and do you think it best to re-connect the vacuum?
    If you pull that housing off the dizzie, you will find the twin trigger points for the injection. David cavanagh has been saying for years there points are very hard to come by and very expensive (R17G's and other Djets use the same points).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    I can get some of those trigger points at a citroen agency but me and the owner aren't very talkative so I'd rather use it till it dies and if I have to then get a 123 electronig ignition although I would like to keep it orinigal,

    Richard maby you're right mine is a hydraulic efi, I'll hook it up to the intake manifold and see what happens

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    My car is not an injected one but also seems to be a bit unusual. It was once a '73 DS23 carby but is now fitted with a DX engine (early DS21 motor).

    It is fitted with a distributor with vacuum advance and appears to be off an injected car as it has a plug on the side which appears to be for a crank position sensor. The inlet manifold is fitted with a vacuum tapping which has been blanked off.

    Can any one identify the distributor and do you think it best to re-connect the vacuum?

    That distributor is exactly the same as mine.

    at the base of the carburettor there's a copper screw, you take that out and fit in a nipple and connect the advance onto there. I did it to a 21 when the owner fitted a 123 vacuum advance ignition system.

    Cheers
    Corne
    1968 ID21 break
    1971 DS21 IE BVH Rouge de grenade (Madamoiselle Rouge)
    1974 DS Pallas Sable metalisse My first restoration (Edith) Now BVH
    1973 DS pallas Metallic red. "Rusty"

    1947 Traction Avant

    Modern

    2006 C4 VTS 180 Coupe

    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    - Vincent van Gogh

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