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Thread: early C5 suspension questions

  1. #1
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    Default early C5 suspension questions

    Have a '03 C5 Hdi and from new it has had the most unpredictable ride. The demo i drove before my purchase, rode the same, but at the time the roads were very pottholey [is that a word?]and the traffic was heavy so I didn't think too much about it.

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    So, on smooth roads [if you manage to find one] the ride is, shall we say "OK" but give it a rough surface and it turns into a Traction Avant, every pothole/bump is felt through the steering and floor. Getting rid of the Michelin tyres worked well, they were always noted for feeling every matchstick you ran over, but her alongside is still declaring " don't care what it is, but our next car will ride better than this". Makes me feel real good, because I had to talk her into agreeing to buy the thing. I've driven quite a few Cits over the last century, well it seems that long, and the ride has never impressed me, except for one DS I had the pleasure of driving.
    The C5 doesn't seem to have any shock absorbing or damping, the suspension being merely concerned with holding the body up off the road, speed bumps have to be approached with extreme caution or there will be such a loud crash as the front wheels drop down the other side, that I fully expect pedestrian type people to come running to scavenge those bits which must have surely broken off.
    I've had overweight people in the back apologise for being too heavy for the car and, "I hope nothing's broken" after the loud cracking/banging sound which comes from the rear on occasions and, which is felt throughout the car.
    I have noticed however, that if I leave the car raised up whenever I park for long periods, then let the computer sort it out when I drive off again, the ride is then greatly improved. For a while.
    Also after a period of highway driving, that computer controlled lowered height, becomes much like a "lowered horse cart" and the whole car seems to viabrate. Just like any lowered car really. But so much so, that I usually wiggle the steering wheel or hit the brakes to make the computer raise it back up to urban driving height and then pull over at the first chance for a coffee.
    So, too much info? or not enough. Have I got to live with this dray, or has somebody got a fix. Thought about fiddling with the ride height sensors, but that wouldn't help the damping. Any discussion?.

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    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Just out of interest, what is the mileage of this C5? It is assumed that at 200,000kms that the system needs a service and many of the first 2001 models have come to that already. I don't know what is involved, however I have a gut feeling that as good as these double membrane spheres are, it is possible in my mind that by the time the service is due, that the spheres have lost an amount of pressure.

    You say there is no damping/ shock absorbing and I think what you mean is that there is no springing. The springing medium, in this case nitrogen gas allows vertical movement of the wheels and the damping controls this movement. Some here have ordered "comfort spheres" from europe which have a more relaxed damping setting integral to the sphere and that gives a more floaty ride. The problem is that the C5 has relatively short vertical wheel travel compared to the DS but it should still ride much better than you say.

    Is there a computer/ diode glitch which is not allowing each centre sphere to come in to operation. This happened to the Xantia VSX I had for a while. The centre spheres, one on each axle allow a softer ride and can "turn off" in the sports mode. The problem off the centre spheres being cut out all the time is easy to fix apparently with a couple of little diodes.

    I have seen early model C5's around Brissie that obviously are not riding well and I would like to think that they just need the spheres regassed again! If this type of sphere can be tested and/or regassed then that would be something. Otherwise find out about these comfort spheres and have them fitted.

    -Andy

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    I think you'll find that the 2003 C5 Hdi has only 4 spheres.

    From memory my 2003 Hdi rode quite well, with some noise at low speed at times.

    Rossie.

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    Thanks andy

    It's a 2003 Hdi with just 90.000 ks , I don't enjoy driving it much because it's such a pig, with my back problem. There's plenty of suspension travel and at times becomes even unsettlingly floaty, as though the computer can't react quickly enough to directional change. Like when pushed over winding mountain roads. Mostly it's just like the suspension was totally seized, and yet it is far from that. I think I'm right in saying the computer is not reactive enough, being programed to hold the wheel at the nominal flat running height, ie distance from the chassis to the axle center, instead of allowing it to follow the contours of the road surface.
    Probably why most of those early Cits rode like a dray and you could take a wheel off and drive around to save tyre wear. The suspension was only concerned with point to point settings, allowing very little variation for road surface contours. And now in later times why these comfort spheres are claimed to give a superior ride. I may be wrong but remember those vehicles with what we may have jokingly referred to as having a wallowing ride?, they didn't seem to have this bump and crash problem.
    Maybe i've got a sensor problem, with the car that is, not me personally. And have you noticed how soft the C6 is on its suspension?.

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Hi Shanadoo

    my Dad had a 2002 HDi wagon and it rode very well. Not squishy and soft like the Prestige but the body just sits still most of the time with the road going underneath. Reading your description I would say there is something wrong. I am surprised it wasn't fixed up under warranty since you have had the car since new

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    Being a Brissie local, perhaps you could drop by to DS motors in Red hill. I used to annoy them all the time, they are actually very generous with their time so would probably be happy to offer some kind of advice/ help. John is the man to speak to as he seems to dabble in the later models now.

    I remember driving a 2003 Hdi wagon some time back and while it felt like it was genetically a Citroen, there was little body roll. I'm sure you are aware that the only thing keeping a Citroen from virtually tipping to one side is the use of quite hefty anti-roll bars...not as some believe some hydraulic wizardary! Massive torsion bars in effect and the bigger and more effective, the less roll but also the tendency for the car to rock from side to side when encountering certain roads. The C5 I drove had it bad as have others I have rode in. Of course earlier Cits do this too and CX's can rock and roll a fair bit.

    You might say that the front suspension is independent in these Cits but I reckon that each axle loses much of that independence because the anti-roll bars are so strong. I had a CX where the front anti-roll bar came loose so only the back one was keeping it from going crazy. The roll was incredible but on a straight road with alternating undulations, the ride was really uncanny. A pity Citroen didn't go all out on a hydraulic anti-roll system earlier like what Range rover use now on top end models. It stiffens up on corners but relaxes on the straights for a better ride.

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    Andy..they did try to reduce the roll bar induced stiffness with the Xantia Activa ( but they still have strong anti roll bars )..... but it is my belief that the whole Hydractive thing is just too complicated for its own good..especially in this part of the world..a different scenario in Europe of course...
    What was wrong with the level of complexity of the BX or Xantia generations ???...a sphere for each wheel and one for brake pressure reserve and HP pump continuity... or for that matter a simple non hrdractive Xantia system...
    The HP steering I can do without..pressure hissing flow noise and the way the HP systems stole such an amount of the available pressure was problematical, and Diravi was superbly accurate but for most situations conventional reactions to the wheel's input is adequate. ( There have been recent posts about CXs losing all steering assistance on full lock ).

    I wish they had proceeded with the evolution of the materials used like desmopan diaphragms and the LDS fluid but without the added complications of the electronic control system.. (I am not being critical of the electric HP LDS pump that because of its ability to be available all the time and therefore has no pump up delay time ) and the third hydractive sphere per axle....how many people really need or even know that their car has lowered itself by a miserable 13mm as the speed gets above the legal limit in this country.

    I drove a diesel C5 wagon recently and found it delightfully floaty at the back end but somewhat limited in wheel travel for the front wheels....

    Design wise for anyone who travels on dirt or gravel roads a look under a C5 will reveal that the pipes to the rear spheres are on the underneath of the cylinders mounting and very exposed and the height corrector link and switch completely exposed...that would never have been done in the past....feed lines and height correctors being protected by better placement and metal covers..... and the simple accessibility to the third hydractive spheres causes headaches later in the car's life... Perhaps Citroen could offer the option of the disconnecting roll bar as seen in current Jeeps and some Pajeros and Patrols... but that would require another way of linking the height corrector so it knows the altitude and attitude of the car...remote sensing like the lane warning system perhaps...or maybe just a non torsion bar link.
    The torsion roll bars in lesser machines ( Camrys come to mind ) also are used as a locating link to control for/aft movement in lower front control arms and not just the anti roll function as in Citroens.

    Do C5 wagons have different sphere volume or pressure to those fitted on C5 hatchbacks ???

    How do the comfort spheres work ? Are they greater in volume OR pressure OR damping orifices or all of the above ??? and do they put greater load onto the bump rubbers as the wheel assembly can travel further easier ?

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    Hi greg
    Warranty??. A joke on Cits as far as I'm concerned. Had to have the tranny replaced at 60.000 for an oil leak, and just made that within the time frame. And lots of "anti pollution fault" displays and other issues meant it spent a fair amount of time either on the back of a tow truck, or parked in a workshop waiting for parts from France. [Do the dealers actually keep anything except gold plated filters?]. Anyway the ride problems got pushed aside as "yes this particular model does ride quite firmly".

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    Hi frizelhund

    I agree, there's no need for all this complication. Most manufacturers have tried silly stuff at one time or another and a lot of European brands are still persisting, but to my mind on mid priced vehicles, I think there's very little difference in ride quality between computer controlled wizz bangery and conventional suspension, speaking Aussie road wise that is. And yes the sway bars do have far more work to do now a days than for what they were originally designed for. Back to basics I say.

    The wagons do seem to be soft in the back and I suspect they run a different system to compensate for the extra length. But no matter on brand, every vehicle design seems to be a compromise in one way or another, whether it's the running gear or the power train, each manufacturer trying to outdo the other on gagetry. All very well until things start to go wrong, then it's off to the "special of the week" display of a S/h dealers yard. I reckon we'll see a turbo for each cylinder one day. Watcher reckon.

    Dirt roads should be avoided at all cost with a C5, but sometimes we're
    forced to travel on them, allbeit with visions of a rapidly depleting bank balance from stone damage.
    Reminds me of when my son was traveling up in the territory a few years ago. He was filling up and having a drink at some god forsaken outback fuel stop when a very hot and sweaty, foreigen sounding chap came in. Said to the bloke behind the till "I have big troubles with my Volvo, you know Volvo Ja?. Fat chance.

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    Thanks Andy
    I'll note them down. At the moment I'm "feeling the market" as they say. My C5 is not having any sway problems, or any squishyness or diving up and down with normal day to day driving. It's feels rock solid, and that's the problem. Sometimes the front wheels crash into an unavoidable pot hole and sometimes they'll ride over with nary a whimper, but the back wheels always makes a feast of them, sounds like I just lost the back axle.

    The only time the front gets squishy is on a sudden change of direction, like when on a back, mountain road and there's a sharp "S" bend and I'm probably entering a bit too quickly. At the middle change of direction the front bounces and the wheels feel like the steering has a very loose ball joint. But the car remains flat, front movement is up and down as it should be, but exaggerated and in the wrong direction considering the loads imposed. A strange happening thing. It can also happen cresting a hill and finding the road takes a sharp turn. You get a visible and indecisive floating sensation from the front as you straighten up.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Shanadoo,
    I can't believe how many Citroen owners I've met , even ones of many years experience, who seem to forget the importance of the amount of nitrogen in the spheres.

    All Hydraulic citroens will go up and down , regardless of the condition of the spheres.

    It sounds to me like you need to replace/re-gass all of your cars spheres.

    There's no way that any electronic system setting can make any difference to your ride if the spheres are flat.
    The car will rise up, but it will not have any suspension if the spheres are stuffed.

    You need to at least remove and pressure test every sphere to begin with, so that you know where you stand.
    If you re-gass or replace every sphere you will then feel no bumps any more.

    I go over speed humps at usually about twice the recommended speed eg. Speed Hump 20 k ( I go over at anything from 30 to 40 KsPH) with virtually no bounce.

    If you can't get your sphere pressures tested then get someone to check them for you, or just replace the whole lot.

    You should then expect a good ride.
    Good luck.
    Cheers...George 1/8th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Hi frizelhund

    I agree, there's no need for all this complication. Most manufacturers have tried silly stuff at one time or another and a lot of European brands are still persisting, but to my mind on mid priced vehicles, I think there's very little difference in ride quality between computer controlled wizz bangery and conventional suspension, speaking Aussie road wise that is. And yes the sway bars do have far more work to do now a days than for what they were originally designed for. Back to basics I say.
    .
    You have got to be joking. There is something seriously wrong with your C5 if you think this. I would suggest you join the relevant club and take it along to a tech day were there will be lots of enthusiasts who will look at your machine and maybe take you for a drive in theirs for comparison.

    I can only relate two experiences with my daughters where we had a Xsara as a loan a fare while ago, and both girls riding in the back complained about the ride. Also more recently we hired a Hybrid Camry in Adelaide, and those in the back complained about the poor ride. Neither of these are car enthusiasts but the comparison of these cars back seats to those of the CX Prestige bore no real comparison.

    I have another story, again a few years ago when I was driven at speed in Bob Worthington's '58 ID19. It was over roads in Western Sydney that used to be dirt but then had an icing of macadam so all the dips and bumps are frozen in time. There were several times barreling into dips at a speed I thought would have the wheels punching through the guards, but that old ID never bottomed and road incredibly serenely over a very poor surface. Get yourself a ride in one of those and be amazed.

    If a Cit is riding poorly the first thing to check is the sphere pressure, that would be my first step before you go the comfort sphere route. The complexity, although it is not that complex, is definitely worth it. The only conventional car I have been really impressed with is the first Jaguar XJ6

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    Default C5 ride??

    Hi
    I have a 2001 C5 with 135000 Ks.
    I think the ride is ok. Not as good as the older Citroens at low speeds but better at higher speeds. In fact excellent on indifferent or gravel roads at speed. It does seem to lack travel at the front for large bumps like speed humps. However it does not mind large loads nor does it fail to set itself to the correct height. It always runs the pump and adjusts itself when you start and adjusts height when you open the boot etc. There are no crashes or grones from the works. The front roll bar links have been replaced as they clunked and the ball joints for the same reason.

    If your car does behave as you say then it has some problems. Perhaps driving some other cars may shed some light on it. Even at car yards. The club members may offer some opinions after a drive..

    The spheres fitted to it cannot be regassed but can be replaced at a sensible cost from suppliers in England. BUT at this stage most of the cars seem to still have the original spheres and they work OK. However I would be looking at getting some local mechanic who is familar with C5s to check it out first to see if it has some other problem that have been there all the time.
    Jaahn

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    I said cars within the price range, a Jap Toyota whatever is only worth $5 to take it away in my book. Would not even consider. Although the the top line Lexen has been confirmed world wide as being the worlds quietest car. Jag rides like a dream but so it should at that price.
    Have it on good authority C5 spheres have lifetime nylon diaphragms and don't loose pressure and anyway they have to be fitted with a filler valve if in the unlikely event they ever do need to be refilled. New price in UK is around $120 each. Not cheap in my book.
    Years ago I had a thrash around in the very Hillman Hunter which won the first London - Sydney marathon. It was only a few weeks after the race, and it was still in full rally trim, and through the windy bits the grip was phenomenal for it's day, flat and stable provided you kept the boot down. But it rode like a dog on the slow black stuff, that's a compromise with any suspension. Even Cits in sport setting against comfort.
    When I was a young fella my boss bought a new ID and a drove it lots of times, it needed caster wheels on the sill panels to keep 'em off the road on hard corners, around town it was a bit of a boat in a chop, but on the highway it sure did ride nice. He also had a light 15. Horrible thing to drive.
    The C5 is available in conventional suspension if one prefers. {I do and I wish I had}.
    because the hydractive suspension relies on too many computer signals, from too many sensors and a complex BHI system which is bound to give trouble.
    Some like the system, I'm indifferent, go either way, providing I don't have any trouble. Just want a reliable car that keeps going without costing the earth.
    I've driven lots of Cits and found there was nothing to rave about, no better or worse than any good, non Jap car, WITHIN THE PRICE RANGE. maybe I'm biased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    I said cars within the price range, a Jap Toyota whatever is only worth $5 to take it away in my book. Would not even consider. Although the the top line Lexen has been confirmed world wide as being the worlds quietest car. Jag rides like a dream but so it should at that price.
    Have it on good authority C5 spheres have lifetime nylon diaphragms and don't loose pressure and anyway they have to be fitted with a filler valve if in the unlikely event they ever do need to be refilled. New price in UK is around $120 each. Not cheap in my book.
    Years ago I had a thrash around in the very Hillman Hunter which won the first London - Sydney marathon. It was only a few weeks after the race, and it was still in full rally trim, and through the windy bits the grip was phenomenal for it's day, flat and stable provided you kept the boot down. But it rode like a dog on the slow black stuff, that's a compromise with any suspension. Even Cits in sport setting against comfort.
    When I was a young fella my boss bought a new ID and a drove it lots of times, it needed caster wheels on the sill panels to keep 'em off the road on hard corners, around town it was a bit of a boat in a chop, but on the highway it sure did ride nice. He also had a light 15. Horrible thing to drive.
    The C5 is available in conventional suspension if one prefers. {I do and I wish I had}.
    because the hydractive suspension relies on too many computer signals, from too many sensors and a complex BHI system which is bound to give trouble.
    Some like the system, I'm indifferent, go either way, providing I don't have any trouble. Just want a reliable car that keeps going without costing the earth.
    I've driven lots of Cits and found there was nothing to rave about, no better or worse than any good, non Jap car, WITHIN THE PRICE RANGE. maybe I'm biased.
    I'd only make two observations.

    1. The Hunter only won that first London-Sydney because the DS21 that was well ahead was demolished by a mini that was incorrectly on the "closed" road just outside Sydney. The Hunter crew of course did well to be in a near-leading position to take advantage of the outrageous incident of course.

    2. Why do you bother with this forum if you feel that way?
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Have a '03 C5 Hdi the loud cracking/banging sound which comes from the rear on occasions and, which is felt throughout the car.
    That sounds like the rear swing arm bearings are gone... unfortunately a typical problem for C5 (and CX, BX, GS).

    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    [SIZE=2]
    I have noticed however, that if I leave the car raised up whenever I park for long periods, then let the computer sort it out when I drive off again, the ride is then greatly improved. For a while.
    Also after a period of highway driving, that computer controlled lowered height, becomes much like a "lowered horse cart" and the whole car seems to viabrate. Just like any lowered car really. But so much so, that I usually wiggle the steering wheel or hit the brakes to make the computer raise it back up to urban driving height and then pull over at the first chance for a coffee.
    That sounds like it could be a height corrector issue.
    So, you put the car in a high position what makes the suspension softer and when you hit 40km/h it automatically lowers to the normal ride height what makes the suspension firm? When it goes to the normal height it should be indicated on the display at the top of the dash.
    The high position should be firmer than the normal height. But what you described it is another way round.
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    Ah! perhaps I didn't explain it right. Suspension on high is firm, as it should be, drive off letting the computer take control and when it lowers to normal height after the 40kph mark, the ride is probably nearer to normal. But it never seems to last for long, I've never recorded the time or distance, probably because the ride hardens over a indefinite period. There's no side sway, no boating, goes up on door opening, down on boot opening, down on lock, everything working as it should. Rear wheel track has been checked,
    And I've just noticed it's lost one rear bump rubber and the other is without its center plug. They were there on Thursday evening. Ah me, at witts end.

    Interestingly, and here I'm speaking only about those world wide Citroen C5 forums and I'm starting to see double after two days at the computer seeking info, but this seems to be a fairly regular complaint with the Hydractive 3 suspension. All sorts of diagnostics and could be fixes have turned up zero. It appears that when all else fails, blame the BHI unit, but no one seems willing to pay $2500 dollars for a new unit, just in the hope it fixes the problem. Some people claimed to be fitting second hand units but there's been no follow up forum posts, so we don't know either way. And they're to far out of date to warrant posting an inquiry.
    Also interestingly, a lot of these bloggers are "dyed in the wool" Cit owners who say they're disappointed with the C5s ride and wish they'd never gotten rid of their BX or whatever. Even those with the Hydractrive 3+ suspension voice displeasure. and they're supposed to be much better.
    We don't seem to hear much about the good ones, cars or dealers, I guess well pleased owners have little need to post on a forum.
    For me I'm pleased with the Cit now that I've sorted out all its faults. Suspension aside. It's a great car, but it has been an expensive one.
    Just wish I could get it to ride better without spending another squillion $s, it sort of spoils the fun. Once more unto the breach dear friends, once more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I'd only make two observations.

    1. The Hunter only won that first London-Sydney because the DS21 that was well ahead was demolished by a mini that was incorrectly on the "closed" road just outside Sydney. The Hunter crew of course did well to be in a near-leading position to take advantage of the outrageous incident of course.

    2. Why do you bother with this forum if you feel that way?
    1. Yes that was a very nasty smash, but the Citroen did perform well didn't it , and well and truly deserved the win. But that's motor sport.

    2. I like Cits always have, worked on them enough, so when I retired I bought one. Ease of entry, and flat seats suit my back problem. Diesel because I was a diesel fitter. And lots of bells and whistles to take care of the thinking for me. Auto because the wife has a bad hip. And ease of servicing.
    The Citroen ride, as I've said, was a secondary consideration. Every vehicle ever made has it's likes and dislikes. Its faults, its compromises and even its little niggely things. If anyone, is totally 100% happy with the vehicle of their choice, then I reckon they're too easily pleased. Or wealthy enough not to give a damn.
    But that's the way of the world. Most of us have to eat cake.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    1. Yes that was a very nasty smash, but the Citroen did perform well didn't it , and well and truly deserved the win. But that's motor sport.

    2. I like Cits always have, worked on them enough, so when I retired I bought one. Ease of entry, and flat seats suit my back problem. Diesel because I was a diesel fitter. And lots of bells and whistles to take care of the thinking for me. Auto because the wife has a bad hip. And ease of servicing.
    The Citroen ride, as I've said, was a secondary consideration. Every vehicle ever made has it's likes and dislikes. Its faults, its compromises and even its little niggely things. If anyone, is totally 100% happy with the vehicle of their choice, then I reckon they're too easily pleased. Or wealthy enough not to give a damn.
    But that's the way of the world. Most of us have to eat cake.
    I take your point! And no offence intended.

    The C5 hasn't quite done it for me, and we have kept our 15 year-old Xantia - has never given any trouble, although the dash just came out for a heater radiator replacement (first significant failure of any component). Probably we'll keep it, and the 306, for years still.

    Our BX just goes and goes (ignoring the dashboard plastic and the roof paint) too, and being a wagon, is so useful from time to time. None of these cost us much and there is now no depreciation worth talking about.

    I struggle a bit with the thought of longevity with most of the newer stuff, about since multiplex wiring arrived I suspect, but mostly they do seem to work OK. My local "French car" mechanics comment, mostly, that if they are serviced properly they go properly - but then there are sometimes stupid problems, like whatever is wrong with yours. My experience suggests the best way is to find a good (underlined) French car place or get with the local enthusiasts.

    But if ride isn't key, I reckon ease of access (getting in and out), good seats and good AC trumps hydropneumatic. That actually says "get a good 406" in another language. However, there are quite a few Xantias for sale all the time and they are pretty good cars - and rather simpler than C5s with Activa.

    Best of luck with it.
    JohnW

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  20. #20
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    John,

    A couple of points ... one a bit pedantic..C5s do not have Activa..Activa is another level of complication again that uses hydraulic rams to load the roll bars more to give roll free flat cornering .. a benefit supposedly but probably not for the complexity it adds and the amount a gentle driver would use it ( I count myself in that category .. ( if only to save fuel and rubber costs ).

    I agree with you about the relative benefits of a good air con..something that is used nearly 100% of the time in the tropics..and beneficial for de humidifying glass for clear vision in the cold or extreme wet too.

    I have vivid memories of being stuck in a tropical downpour in a traffic jam in a GS trying to get some ventilation to cool me and clear the glass..none available and what air was supplied to the cabin was engine temp and oil stained !!
    A DS 23 injection Pallas with air proved an equal disappointment for relaxed travel as the heat sink into the footwells made the aircon nearly mandatory yet the "cupboard" housing the interior fan under the dash had no provision for shooting cool air DOWN into footwells.....as for a CX ..no way would this little black duck consider one..... I read with envy of BX owners claims of super aircon.
    How good is the cooling capacity of a C5 ?? Apart from the auto control flap motors and their mods I have read nothing of how good a C5's air con is for cooling ?

  21. #21
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    John,

    A couple of points ... one a bit pedantic..C5s do not have Activa..Activa is another level of complication again that uses hydraulic rams to load the roll bars more to give roll free flat cornering .. a benefit supposedly but probably not for the complexity it adds and the amount a gentle driver would use it ( I count myself in that category .. ( if only to save fuel and rubber costs ).

    I agree with you about the relative benefits of a good air con..something that is used nearly 100% of the time in the tropics..and beneficial for de humidifying glass for clear vision in the cold or extreme wet too.

    I have vivid memories of being stuck in a tropical downpour in a traffic jam in a GS trying to get some ventilation to cool me and clear the glass..none available and what air was supplied to the cabin was engine temp and oil stained !!
    A DS 23 injection Pallas with air proved an equal disappointment for relaxed travel as the heat sink into the footwells made the aircon nearly mandatory yet the "cupboard" housing the interior fan under the dash had no provision for shooting cool air DOWN into footwells.....as for a CX ..no way would this little black duck consider one..... I read with envy of BX owners claims of super aircon.
    How good is the cooling capacity of a C5 ?? Apart from the auto control flap motors and their mods I have read nothing of how good a C5's air con is for cooling ?
    I take all your points and thanks for the clarification.

    Our Xantia is a bog standard hydropneumatic one, and more or less never goes wrong. Good AC and acceptable ride, if a bit firm in the "bump thump" department.

    The BX has fabulous AC. In fact, the low fan speed has just stopped working (dirty cheap slide resistor I expect) and the middle speed is too much at times. I don't recall driving anything as cold, as AlanS used to remark often.

    The CX just isn't a summer car. I've never had the pleasure of a DS in hot weather (but people put up with a lot in the 50s/60s as anyone unfortunate enough to have owned an Austin A40 would remember).

    I presume the C5 has fair to good AC as it is standard fare these days. I'm still not much moved to get one mind you. The simple end Xantia was the last with a simple, centralised hydropneumatic system.

    Cheers

    John
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I take all your points and thanks for the clarification.

    Our Xantia is a bog standard hydropneumatic one, and more or less never goes wrong. Good AC and acceptable ride, if a bit firm in the "bump thump" department.

    The BX has fabulous AC. In fact, the low fan speed has just stopped working (dirty cheap slide resistor I expect) and the middle speed is too much at times. I don't recall driving anything as cold, as AlanS used to remark often.

    The CX just isn't a summer car. I've never had the pleasure of a DS in hot weather (but people put up with a lot in the 50s/60s as anyone unfortunate enough to have owned an Austin A40 would remember).

    I presume the C5 has fair to good AC as it is standard fare these days. I'm still not much moved to get one mind you. The simple end Xantia was the last with a simple, centralised hydropneumatic system.

    Cheers

    John

    Well thanks guys

    You'd be surprised on the good overseas feeds about the Xantia models right up to their demise. Seems everyone is honest about theirs, good and bad, but no one says they were glad to get rid of it. On the contrary.
    Yes, C5 air con is good and another reason I got one, The back seat doesn't get enough air except for around the feet which some people can't take. But a bit of fiddling with the front thingies keeps the back fairly good on a run. I describe the rear as "adequate" around town in 36degC. Demister is good, heater is almost instant from cold start. Air con takes about .75ltr/ 100klms extra on auto setting. I like frost on my eyebrows. Pretty damm good. They give a bit of trouble with blower system, but it's cheap and easy to fix if you're a DIY. Replace the pollen filter often, $27 and all will be well.

    Had a Alfa Spyder, '74 short tail I fully restored, and in a summer downpour it was wetter inside than out. Demister was only a sticker on the dash I reckon. It used to make me laugh driving along with the rain pouring through the roof. What else could you do. I reckon it would've been better to put the hood down, at least I could lean out the side to see the road. No air con, and my shoes used to nearly melt with the heat in the foot well. But it's gone now, Oh what a shame, snigger snigger.
    So it takes all kinds of stuff to keep us busy and amused what.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    I was always very happy with the suspension on my C5. It could be caught out on certain surfaces, but essentially it gave a very comfortable ride with excellent handling and stability in all conditions.
    Once it started to give problems I threw the car away. The repair costs and the uncertainties created by the poor knowledge of the system by even French CitroŽn mechanics meant it was a time to cut my losses and move into a new car.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

  24. #24
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    I was always very happy with the suspension on my C5. It could be caught out on certain surfaces, but essentially it gave a very comfortable ride with excellent handling and stability in all conditions.
    Once it started to give problems I threw the car away. The repair costs and the uncertainties created by the poor knowledge of the system by even French CitroŽn mechanics meant it was a time to cut my losses and move into a new car.
    I understand exactly what you mean! When we bought our Xantia, I guess about 9 years ago, it was our first hydropneumatic Citroen. I was comfortable as it was low mileage, one owner and the simplest version. I'm not dissatisfied at all. But when I read all the posts on fiddly stuff with the suspension etc of the more complex ones, or the C5, I really know I don't want to go there. I more or less understand the Xantia, the BX and the CX, but one level more complex might perhaps be too much?

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  25. #25
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    One thing that people overlook with the Xantia and XM with anti-sink suspension is that you are supposed to depressurise it with the engine running and it takes at least a minute. If you don't, the anti-sink system shuts off and keeps the suspension pressurised, making it rather hard to change spheres.

    Early C5's don't ride as quite softly as a Xantia and the current car steps back to a softer ride. Some of the best riding C5's I've driven have been non-Hydractive 2.2 4 speed wagons. Aside from occasional height sensor and BHI failures and some weeping hoses, the C5's suspension doesn't really cause any more problems than other models. It's not as though the C5 range has a monopoly on flat spheres and leaking hydraulics.

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