XM lower ball joints
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 34
  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default XM lower ball joints

    Hi Guys,

    Advertisement


    just how hard are these supposed to be to get out ??? I have the correct ball joint tool here (kindly lent to me by Roger). Bolted it all up and gave a gentle pull on the bar .............. to pull the damn driveshaft apart at it's joint ..... arrrrggghhhh.... I should have realised that would happen.

    Anyway, rattle gun won't touch it, I've managed to break my grandfathers 3/4" 'T' bar/breakers bar (yes the socket holder now just slides off the end). It's survived 30years of working on trucks, but not a ball joint on this lump of excrement.

    Do I need to pull the whole hub out of the heap of sh!t and clamp it in a vice that's dynabolted to the ground then use 6sticks of dynamite to loosen it ?? here's me thinking finally a job would be simple on this car .... sigh.....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,777

    Default

    It is an ex-UK car isn't it??? Would some gentle heating help?
    Is there a peened over point to lock the balljoint in?

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    Hi David,

    yeah it's been a uk car in the distant past. I wouldn't be surprised if the ball joints have been changed in the mean time. I'll have to try a little heat. Yep the tags were peened over, I bent them back (infact just pushing the correct socket into the cuttouts pushes the tags right back out of the way

    I think the biggest problem is the hub isn't held firmly... so moves not allowing you to apply enough force.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    Sell it and buy an Australian XM. Mine came out easily when I did the job, and that was before I had the proper tool, so I just used a drift punch!

    Seriously, try some heat. Don't heat it red hot, obviously, but heat it warm enough for penetrant to smoke off it.

    Also try hitting it in various directions with a hammer to shock it, particularly when it is still hot. I am happy for you to whack the sides of my tool with a hammer. If you can get the nut flush with the end of the thread, hit that too. If the old nut is a nyloc, turn it over so the face you hit is solid nut. If the bolt prodrudes, pack washers under the nut. If the nut protrudes, grind a bit off it.

    Can you drill holes in a big long piece of steel and bolt it to two of the wheel mounting holes and use it as a lever to hold the hub in place?

    Do you need my 1 m long 500 ft-lb torque wrench to use as a giant breaker bar?

    Roger

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Sell it and buy an Australian XM.
    Roger
    I've got a 1991 XM V6 project just waiting for your love and attention Shane!

    You can also try some temperature reduction spray on the joint itself and you may even want to use penetrating fluid and leave it overnight.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    306

    Default

    No issues pulling mine apart either and that was without any special tooling.

    Are you changing the joints, driveshaft or upper suspension mounts?

    Maybe pulling it apart just to frustrate yourself?
    Regards,

    Garth.


    Fixin' Cit's.

    '19 308 GTi
    '15 DS 5
    '74 GS Convertisseur

    In the family
    '51 Traction
    '08 C5 X7 V6

    Previous ownership
    '95 XM V6 Series 2
    '96 306 XTDT

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    I'm just (attempting) to change the lower ball joint ... It has an immense amount of slop in it (it's amazing how much it changes the front geometry moving the slop in the ball joint around with the front of the car up on stands) in theory it's simple I'll have to get my little butane/gas torch back from my brother (it doesn't matter what you want to use, someone has always "borrowed" it on you and not returned it ........................ eg: I hope roger doesn't want his ball joint socket for example in the near future ).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    If your little butane torch is too pathetic you can borrow my oxy-acetylene set if you like.

    Maybe I should drop my whole workshop off at your place!

    Roger

  9. #9
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    I've got a 1991 XM V6 project just waiting for your love and attention Shane!
    Is it a project or a parts car, David? Or is the difference only how long it sits around waiting for someone to do something with it?

    Roger

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Is it a project or a parts car, David? Or is the difference only how long it sits around waiting for someone to do something with it?

    Roger
    Still tinkering before declaring it one way or another. It has some cosmetic issues, but the mechanical side is not completely known at this point and it's not the highest priority just at present.

  11. #11
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,721

    Default

    On mine I found both ball joints to be tighter than the proverbial with a little extra effort applied just to make sure.

    With both of them (done at different times) it was hub off, mount upside down in a vice and then angle grind around the lip in the joint until the pressure lets go then it almost falls out.

    I did have some pics on my website but it has decided to go to shite so I am searching for them elsewhere.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  12. #12
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Still tinkering before declaring it one way or another. It has some cosmetic issues, but the mechanical side is not completely known at this point and it's not the highest priority just at present.
    Sounds like a tricky one. XMs are not the simplest and easiest cars to work on. That's probably why they are currently the Great Unloved CitroŽn, I think. Even GSes (formerly the GUC) are more loved than XMs these days.

    XMs are like the girl with the curl. When they are good they are very very good. But when they are bad they are horrid.

    Roger

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    Thanks Roger,

    I'll go gentle with the heat for now .... or we'll be replacing driveshaft boots, droplinks, steering rods ....etc.. 'cos there all melted.

    I'll try gentle application of heat tomorrow, then I'll have to pull the whole hub. Let me guess ... More special tools involved for that ??



    I might not have a 100cm long breakers bar ... it's 60cm .... and I'm swinging on it so hard I feel like I'm going to pull the car off it's jack. To put it into perspective above is a standard ratchet, a 3/4" bar and the 1/2" breakers bar ... It's big enough



    That socket sure does lock in well. I couldn't imagine ever being able to remove one of these without one.



    The XM sure has far more torsion strength than CX/BX/GS though ... hugely more, it's doors even still work properly (unlike a CX lifted by it's jacking points). We could almost say she's as tough as an old DS

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XM lower ball joints-p1050227.jpg   XM lower ball joints-p1050228.jpeg   XM lower ball joints-p1050231.jpeg  
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,721

    Default

    Actually getting the hub off is pretty easy. No special tools at all IIRC. Remove a couple more bolts and the brake calliper and the hub just gently pulls away from the bottom of the strut. I think Haynes BOFT explains it too. Of course leave the calliper attached and wired up and be careful with the ABS sensor.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    Whoever changed the last ball joint on this car must have thought the next mechanic would want a challenge ..... Surely this can't be right ....

    The tie rod ball joint broke easily enough ... then I could undo the remainder of the nut without simply spinning the center of the ball joint.... but I have a very heavy sledge hammer here.... and I was pretty p!$$ed with the car .... so I got the nut off.



    I couldn't get the hub to drop off the end of the sh!tty strut.... But damn that's one heavy sledge hammer I have here.... and I was getting very agitated at the car . Amazingly i don't think I even smashed anything around the hub area



    I still can't get that ball joint out. I've about to go for a drive and retrieve my little blow torch. I don't have high hopes. Surely this can't be right ??



    It looks like someone has chiseled the hell out of the hub where the ball joint screws in .... sigh.... Nothing is ever easy.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XM lower ball joints-p1050235.jpg   XM lower ball joints-p1050234.jpg   XM lower ball joints-p1050233.jpg  
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    Well my brother inlaw turned up .... So while he swung off the end of the 3/4" bar ........................ with a nice long length of water pipe for added leverage .... I kept lots of heat on it ................ We managed to use a lot of energy and gas and get nowhere ... sigh ....

    After he left I kept heat on it for about 20minutes loaded it back with with a breakers bar and "helper" length of tubing (gee you can get a nice twist on those 3/4" bars with touch of extra leverage). I then got the big monster sledge hammer and bashed sh!t out of it while trying to snap the breakers bar with force........ and it finally released.

    Roger if you let me know where you purchased that ball joint socket from I'll replace it. I don't htink it's damaged, but I've heated, pounded, levered and bashed that socket with everything I could throw at it ..... I can't return it after that

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XM lower ball joints-p1050237.jpg   XM lower ball joints-p1050238.jpeg  
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    If you had to heat it for 20 minutes your heat source was not powerful enough.

    See how the socket looks once you clean it up. I won't need to heave on it like you did. It will probably still be good enough for my needs. My source was a tool supplier disposing of old stock, so I cannot obtain another one from the same source.

    Roger

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,777

    Default

    Any tool supplier with access to T&E tools should be able to find one for you, but the factory tool has more positive engagement.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XM lower ball joints-balljoint_7103-t.jpg  

  19. #19
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    Thanks for that comparison, David. The factory tool is impressively solid next to the T&E. My tool is a T&E. I note that my T&E tool did not fail during Shane's brutality session, so it must be adequately strong.

    Roger

  20. #20
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Thanks for that comparison, David. The factory tool is impressively solid next to the T&E. My tool is a T&E. I note that my T&E tool did not fail during Shane's brutality session, so it must be adequately strong.

    Roger
    "Shane couldn't break it!" is quite a recommendation.

    Once again Shane, thanks for the description of another XM job. I didn't understand at all until the "dismantled" photos came up. What a way to build it.

    It makes my weekend job (this weekend) of pulling and reinstallling the submersible pump from 55 m down our domestic water bore fairly ordinary.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  21. #21
    UFO
    UFO is offline
    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gerringong, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    9,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Any tool supplier with access to T&E tools should be able to find one for you, but the factory tool has more positive engagement.
    that'd be special factory tool P155T-0FF
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    187

    Default Xm

    Well all this talk about the mighty XM being unloved is bullshit.

    I really like my 24V - 5 speed manual - it is a beast on the road.

    Today my friend had to get his Traction out of my Cave to get it re registered on the new Red plate scheme here in Melbourne. CCOCA is doing a weekend run up to Mount Hotham during the Labour Day longweekend so we are getting cars ready. It will be a 1000 k loop.

    Any way I had to move the XM which meant I had to take it for a drive " to wamr it up ". Really this is a heavy old machine but the 250 HP engine is really up for the job. It continues to make me feel good. These are very cheap to buy and and every mad Citroenist should have one locked away for the future. This will be a classic one day in my opinion ( if it isn't already )

    Hawk

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    yeah Rogers tool has held up very well. The "working" parts of the tool are untouched. However the paint (not surprisingly) is a "touch" scuffed and chipped from being hammered against. Certainly I can't imagine how anyone could apply more load or pressure than I did.

    I've spent the last hour trying to re-assemble the driveshaft ..................... AAaaarrrrrrhhhhhhhhh.... I saw the "balls" drop down and thought it was the same design as the CX driveshaft. ie: tough, indestructable .... simple ...work forever..... But NNNNoooooo..... it's the same design as a week as p!$$ GS driveshaft .... but without the benefits of good steering lock. I've just spend an hour searching through gritty dirty black filthy dirt and sh!t looking for the 5000 needle bearings that have dropped out. I'm about 3 short .....

    If you ever accidentally split a driveshaft on an XM .......... ENSURE YOU DON'T LET IT SEPARATE .... millions of bloody little bearings covered in black grease that'll immediatly mix with the grit and dirt/oil all over the car will immediatly happen.

    I guess I'm heading back out soon to see if I can find the missing needles What's another couple of frustrating hours

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,070

    Default

    Shane use a magnet to retrieve the lost needles. I bet they're embedded in the grease of the triaxe housing or its gaiter.
    Cheers Gerry

  25. #25
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk View Post
    Well all this talk about the mighty XM being unloved is bullshit.
    It's not bullshit, Ted, it's real. You like yours, I like mine, other owners like theirs, but the reason XMs are, as you say, "very cheap to buy" is because they are unloved by others. Most people who don't own one are scared of them. Look at Chris the kiwi (citinorbit). He is a total CitroŽnist and has owned numerous different models over the years and worked on them himself, yet the other day when he was considering buying one he felt the next to ask us for reassurance.

    Please don't condem my comments as bullshit. Robust debate is fine, but swearing is a bit over the top.

    Roger.

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •