C5 twin turbo diesel power loss
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Default C5 twin turbo diesel power loss

    My 07 C5 2.2 diesel has behaved strangely a couple of times in the last few weeks. When I started off at the lights It suddenly decided to drive like a non turbo car, and the engine note was 'flat'. It was in the right gears (auto) but just sluggish and had to be really pushed to keep up with the traffic. After stopping for a while and going again it was back to normal. No fault messages came up on the display.
    The Citroen dealer(s) said ' sounds like it might be electrical - we'll probably never find it"
    The next one said (and I suspect that) it may be a fuel problem and advised to fill it up with BP instead of the discounted stuff which i do use. Said they are very fuel sensitive and maybe it is the problem .Maybe got a 'crook' batch
    any ideas anybody?

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  2. #2
    TRT
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    Default Fuel sounds like the problem

    I had similar problem with C4 HDi, though not as bad as yours. In my case, it just lost its edge - you notice such things when you drive it constantly. Cheapest thing to do is try BP ultra for a couple of tankfuls and see what happens. If that doesn't work you can explore more expensive options.

    When I stopped using discount stuff for several tankfuls it was cured. I now alternate between discount fuel (for the health of my wallet) and proper diesel (for the health of the car).

    At least you don't (I hope) get the problem I had in Darwin with a petrol Commodore. Local servo was cutting fuel with ethanol to save money and car began accelerating/idling erratically. Again was cured by a couple of tankfuls of real petrol.

    Tony

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    Hi bigkev414,

    2007 2.2 HdiTT, at 76Kkm had several episodes of loss of power as in limp mode, giving a beep "speed management system faulty" (briefly) then "depollution system faulty", which message persisted fo variable periods of time. Switch off, and OK again. Recurred at decreasing intervals. Change of fuel filter cured the problem. I recall having a depollution message while driving intertown for the 40K service. Never did pin that down, but was OK after service. I intend changing fuel filter every 20K in future.

    I realise that this is not identical to your problem, but I post it in case it may be of some help. I think replies from owners of 2.2 TT's will be few.

    Regards, Rossie.

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    If fuel is found to be the cause of the problem, for the sake of a couple of $$ per tank, wouldn't it be more prudent to fill with 'brand name' Shell/BP/Caltex etc. for the long term health of the car, your wallet (engine repairs = ouch!), your sanity for preventing this happening again and the dealers/mechanics sanity in trying to locate the problem for you....

    ....which will cost $$$ to find anyway?

    It's often said that 'oil is the cheapest and best insurance you can give a car'

    I'll add to that, that good fuel runs a close second....

    Just my

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Icon6 gremlins

    Thanks for your reply - my car also decides to go 'bing' sometimes and the cruise control won't work and I get the same message as you do. stop, turn off, start up again and it usually works again. I also continually get a message telling me tyre pressures are low, but none are. The dealer actually fitted 4 new sensors (grizzled because it cost them $1200 they said) because it was doing it when I bought it and I contacted the previous owner and he said it did it for the last year and he gave up and ignored it. When that happens the SERVICE light comes on, but is gone the next day when I start up again. When I go over a speed hump the tyre message comes on. I'm going to ignore it. These are interesting cars....it's a bit like getting emails while you drive along and they self delete. I like the car very much notwithstanding it's oddities. I'm sure by now that the power problem is fuel related.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Default diesel fuel

    Ronhic - thanks for the reply. I've always used Caltex but I've only had this car for 4 months. The dealer advised me NOT to use Caltex because the cars are very fuel sensitive and don't like it. I'm going to BP in future and see what happens. I have had a previous very bad experience with 7 eleven petrol in my previous Peugeot which was contanimated and reported it to the RACQ technical section and he told me that they had several other complaints about the same station, and I also know that I have had other cars which don't like Shell.

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    Power loss could be down to bad fuel. If you think so, in addition to changing the filter, you probably want to have the pump/pickup unit cleaned out too.

    Cruise control is manged by the engine ECU and it will be one of the first things to be disabled when there is some other problem being detected. There is likely to be no problem with the cruise control itself, but an engine or injection issue is likely to be enough to cause it to switch off the cruise control.

    Regarding the tyre sensors, it would be unusual for all four wheel sensors to fail at once and they are costly items. Note: In case you damage the valve neck, for some models, you can buy the neck as a separate part to the sensor unit.) If you are certain the tyres are at the correct pressure, then perhaps there is a software upgrade and/or re-initialisation process that may help. You need to consult a dealer for this. Worst case, you can simply have the feature disabled.

  8. #8
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    I was at a CCCNSW event this afternoon and spoke to the owner of a C5 wagon who had a similar prob to yours recently. It turns out that there was a Y shaped hose after the turbo charger that had split and therefore all the turbo power was being wasted.

    Perhaps this could be your car's problem.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  9. #9
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    The Y-shaped vacuum pipe cracking can sometimes be a problem with the DW10B 2.0HDi when fitted to C5, Picasso and C4. It's at the front of the block and there's only one in the vacuum piping. You'll quickly know if you lose the turbo boost due to a vacuum leak there, but it won't be an intermittent problem. It's quite easily repaired, even a DIY repair to replace the cracked part would work.
    Last edited by David S; 6th March 2011 at 12:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkev414 View Post
    Ronhic - thanks for the reply. I've always used Caltex but I've only had this car for 4 months. The dealer advised me NOT to use Caltex because the cars are very fuel sensitive and don't like it. I'm going to BP in future and see what happens. I have had a previous very bad experience with 7 eleven petrol in my previous Peugeot which was contanimated and reported it to the RACQ technical section and he told me that they had several other complaints about the same station, and I also know that I have had other cars which don't like Shell.
    When I was referring to discount fuel above, I was talking about Caltex (Woolworths discount chain), not the no-name brands (that I never touch). I think you should avoid Caltex and Shell if you are experiencing fuel problems.

    Just remembered - another problem can be the age of the fuel. This was commented on a few years ago in this forum. If your servo only stocks up on diesel every few weeks, then the older stuff doesn't work as well. Something to do with a declining octane rating or some such. Can't remember the details.

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    Default Gremlins

    bigkev414, I see you have had other "beeps". I was plagued early on by a 1-2 sec hesitation when accelerating away from a corner / roundabout. This was accompanied by a beep and a briefly displayed "engine management system faulty". It was intermittent, and never happened to my wife. Once I ceased my habit of leftfoot brake right foot accelerator, it never happened again. Now, I have driven that way for years, including our 2003 Hdi, with no problem. The 2.2 TT system does't seem to like it, though. Moral - keep the left foot firmly on the 'dead' pedal.

    This may or may not be relevent to you.

    Regards, Rossie.

  12. #12
    Member MikeHolt's Avatar
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    Default Bio -diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkev414 View Post
    Ronhic - thanks for the reply. I've always used Caltex but I've only had this car for 4 months. The dealer advised me NOT to use Caltex because the cars are very fuel sensitive and don't like it. I'm going to BP in future and see what happens. I have had a previous very bad experience with 7 eleven petrol in my previous Peugeot which was contanimated and reported it to the RACQ technical section and he told me that they had several other complaints about the same station, and I also know that I have had other cars which don't like Shell.

    http://rivrdog.typepad.com/files/cop...-version-3.pdf

    This is interesting reading. It is from US but.
    My take is that 2% (or more) biodiesel as an additive might be a good idea. There used to be an outlet near us in Prahran and the Golf TDI ran well on that.

    Mike

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  14. #14
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    Default great info. on diesel fuel

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHolt View Post
    thanks a lot for your info mate - very informative and interesting. i had no idea really that diesel fuel was so variable.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts bigkev414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossie View Post
    Hi bigkev414,

    2007 2.2 HdiTT, at 76Kkm had several episodes of loss of power as in limp mode, giving a beep "speed management system faulty" (briefly) then "depollution system faulty", which message persisted fo variable periods of time. Switch off, and OK again. Recurred at decreasing intervals. Change of fuel filter cured the problem. I recall having a depollution message while driving intertown for the 40K service. Never did pin that down, but was OK after service. I intend changing fuel filter every 20K in future.

    I realise that this is not identical to your problem, but I post it in case it may be of some help. I think replies from owners of 2.2 TT's will be few.

    Regards, Rossie.
    Hi Rossie - thanks for your advice. What fuel consumption do you get with your car? Mine is mainly around town with about 1/2 on the 'Highway' and it averages 10.7 l/100. Supposed to be 8 and a bit. Dealer is non committal. Just wondered
    regards, Kev

  16. #16
    Member MikeHolt's Avatar
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    When the rear turbo started leaking from the junction between the 2 body halves on the 2.7 V6 HDI I could clearly hear that exhaust noise.

    Initially the stealer wanted to replace the unit for 5K but I refused as I figured a Garrett agent could fix it, and a replacement from Germany was less than half that. Anyway they fixed it finally with some CRC and a retension. Has been fine for 6 months so far.

    Also 2 injectors were replaced for $1700 [email protected] as they were "out of spec" I kept them and will have tested myself one-day if I find someone who knows what they are doing.
    Citroen insisted the supply pipes had to be replaced at $800 per injuctor, but they could not get the parts in and i was saved, they reused the existing ,also no problem.

    Symptoms were "surging" when cold driving off first thing. This has largely stopped.

    Also I use Caltex Vortex diesel seems a little smoother , not sure.

    Mike

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    Hello bigkev414,

    My 2.2 TT is a wagon. I thought my consumption was poor, but found the computer readout of ltrs/100km is useless - at last check last year it was 16.4% pessimistic! Perhaps yours is similar?

    About once a year I check actual consumption. I fill initially at a certain bowser to the third cutout. I record fuel purchases, and after about 5,000km I fill again at the same bowser, and do the calculation. Last time, computer showed 8.3, actual usage was 7.12, error 16.4%. Previous checks show actual usage of 7.5 +/- 0.4 and the error has steadily worsened since new. Current average sitting at indicated 8.8, so probably about 7.5 actual. Worst was 7.9 actual when I was running a set of dunlop sp 3000A. Now on Primacy LC's.

    We do about 30,000km per year. We live in a village some 45km from Mackay, so there is a fair bit of highway work, plus town work when my wife goes to every supermarket in town. She also does a lot of short hops round the village, and meals on wheels once a fortnight - drags the consumption down.

    Regards, Rossie.

  18. #18
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    Default C5 Twin Turbo Diesel

    I have a similar problem on my C5 2.2 Twin Turbogetting message "Speed Control System Faulty" and cruise control shuts down. Also first turbo stops working. Always happens after about an hours running in transition phase between first and both turbos, that is under load between 2400 and 2700 rpm. Anyone got any more info?

    Trevor

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  20. #20
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    As mentioned last year ... cruise control faults can arise because another problem exists and the cruise control was shut down as part of a downgraded operating mode. It's more likely something like a fuel supply issue or perhaps a vacuum solenoid. Another possibility with the 2.2 twin-turbo is oil in the electronic control part of the mixer valve in front of the engine. You probably want to see a dealer about it.

  21. #21
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    We had a Pug 307 which used to shut down the cruise control, and I think ABS brakes. Turned out to be the brake sensor (I presume the sensor that detects when the brake pedal is depressed) - even our local Pug dealer (cunningly disguised as a Toyota dealer) knew straight away what the problem was, so it must have been a common fault...

    Cheers

    Alec

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