Tacho and Condensor
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  1. #1
    UFO
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    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
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    Default Tacho and Condensor

    Fento mentioned on Donat's 8th GS thread that the car in question would consume condensors and he knew when one was going as the tacho would go "half speed".

    UFO (the car not me) does that every now and then but it typically comes back to normal or I forget to monitor the tacho. Who needs a visual tacho in a D? You have audiotacho.

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    Anyway, I was wondering if the problem could be similar. I have checked all the connections I can but the condensor would be at least 8 years old by now.

    What say the sages?
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Craig,

    NOT a sage, but the GS system was Ducellier, and I have had many other Ducellier cars with no problems as mentioned. If you have an issue with UFO then swap the condenser and see. It's only a plug-in, one screw (aww Jeez, here we go again) attachment.

    Regards,

    fento

  3. #3
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    The tacho in the GS does indeed give me a half-true reading from time to time. Now it all makes sense.... kinda.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    for years i have been running the 604's on the tacho

    whenever the tacho started playing up i knew the condensors were on their way out

    not so much run at 1/2 speed but it would jump around all over the place and generally just not read right

    BTW if condensors are playing up too often check your coil to make sure it is the correct type for your car otherwise you will onnly ever end up chewing out points/plugs and using up condensors
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  5. #5
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    for years i have been running the 604's on the tacho

    whenever the tacho started playing up i knew the condensors were on their way out

    not so much run at 1/2 speed but it would jump around all over the place and generally just not read right

    BTW if condensors are playing up too often check your coil to make sure it is the correct type for your car otherwise you will onnly ever end up chewing out points/plugs and using up condensors
    That's an interesting point (sorry for pun). My CX has had an intermittent "cough then go and sometimes stop altogether" matter since I've had it. It has eaten points and condenser (my similar Renault ones run for decades without trouble) more than once. It has a coil with ballast resistor, the original one. Always starts well.

    I wonder whether the ballast resistor is misbehaving when hot. Trouble is, the car goes for ages without a hint of trouble, so what to look for? I'll replace that coil and ballast resistor I guess.

    The tacho occasionally stays on zero and bounces around. I'd presumed a CX flexible printed circuit bit of arthritis, but maybe it is a symptom as you suggest. So many thanks.

    All advice welcome.
    JohnW

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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    Well recently my GS started to have an intermittent tacho. I regapped the points as the dwell was a little low and the points were a little wide. The tacho now works good.
    Regards,

    Garth.


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  7. #7
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    I think I'm going to have a look at the points + condenser when I get around to it.... I just thought the tacho was on its way out.

    Even with the stealth sound of this 1015, you still know when it's time to go up and down a gear, though it's nice to see things working as they should.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    donat,

    You're on the right track - points, plugs, condenser, NON carbon trace plug leads, premuim fuel and advance the ignition just short of pinking and she'll go like the clappers!

    She has always liked attention - typical female.

    Regards,

    fento

  9. #9
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fento View Post
    donat,

    You're on the right track - points, plugs, condenser, NON carbon trace plug leads, premuim fuel and advance the ignition just short of pinking and she'll go like the clappers!

    She has always liked attention - typical female.

    Regards,

    fento
    I've been driving her everyday since I bought it, and yes - it needs all of these things and more - but I think I might have to boot up the CX before the battery goes flat on me.

    Oh, it also needs a new fuel filler pipe - a full tank and me driving means it's a strictly no naked flames car.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  10. #10
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Had the condenser changed today. Still cactii on the tacho front. Will proceed to points.
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Donat,

    Check polarity and tighness on the coil terminals.

    Regards,

    fento

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    When tuning a GS it is worthwhile remembering that the posts that hold the advance springs in the distributor base can bend [ Ducellier I think ?? ]. This means that when the timing is set at 2,500rpm it is retarded at lower speeds giving poor low speed response. Advancing the timing to improve low speed response then gives excessive high speed advance.
    The solution is to set the timing [ after setting points dwell ], both at idle & at 2,500rpm. If both ends don't agree, adjust timing by bending the post with the larger spring until they match.
    Personally I would be throwing points & condenser away & fitting a Lumenition or similar electronic kit. Unfortunately this doesn't solve the advance post problem, but does eliminate the constant maintenance required with points & improves spark by extending dwell.

    Have fun, Richhard

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citroenut View Post
    Personally I would be throwing points & condenser away & fitting a Lumenition or similar electronic kit. Unfortunately this doesn't solve the advance post problem, but does eliminate the constant maintenance required with points & improves spark by extending dwell.
    Unfortunately the Lumenition does not seem to be available for the Ducellier distributor on the GS. Bugger.
    Regards,

    Garth.


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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Richard,

    Gudday!

    No doubt the electronic system would work well, but so did the original, when adjusted to within range.

    They are pretty bullet-proof, and a set of points & plugs every 20,000 Ks & condenser as indicated by funny tacho readings has seemed to work for this car in the past.

    It does not like carbon trace leads; I fitted copper HT leads very early on.

    The distributor has to be removed to fit points, so a quick strip to check & grease spindle bearings, timing weights, etc, only takes a few minutes. Make sure the parts are replaced in the same order as removal.

    Ignition timing best done on road - the only gear needed is an 11mm flat ring to loosen / retighten the distributor. Full throttle from low to high speed, advance until it starts to preignite, then retard until preignition goes.

    A check of the physical parts of the distributor when removed from the car will show any problems, such as damaged spring mountings, pivots, etc. Never had a problem in this regard while we used it, so I doubt that there woud be any change. Removal / replacement of the timing advance springs needs to be very careful so as not to stretch them. Pull off the anchor point, push back on rather than stretch to loosen is the best way. They should be tight when in the stationary position. Proper tensions, etc, are in the manual.

    Regards,

    Fento

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    I had to change the ignition coil because the old one was in a pretty bad shape. With the new coil the flat spot when the second throat opened got fixed. I also changed the voltage regulator - it was not possible to use radio with the old one. So I suppse it did not regulate the voltage very well, or maybe the new stereogram was just too fussy for the old mechanical regulator..
    I changed the condensor at least once, but I dont think the tacho irregularity was because of that because tapping the tacho gauge class usually fixed it. Maybe the tacho itself is bad.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
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