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  1. #1
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    Default Picasso Tyres

    I've had to do some tyre research recently as our front tyres in particular needed replacing. Unfortunately my research coincided with the great unpleasantness (ie the Frogs going off air) so I wasn't able to search the great resource. There was some commentary on a UK site but not directly relevant to tyres available here.

    The obvious choice was to replace the Michelin low profiles with the same tyre however currently there is a huge wait. The tyres have to have a high speed rating. The Melbourne city Citroen dealer is fitting tyres from other brands. For what it's worth Bob Jane recommended Yokohama S Drive and the dealer quoted on them too (thereby implicitly recommending them). I'm not a tyre expert but they seem fine, perhaps even a bit quieter than the ones they replaced.

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    I'd be interested to hear from other Froggers who may have other suggestions and/or a stronger opinion.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Bonjour Bonjour.. I'm not sure what size Piccasso tyres are but if it's any help we recently fitted the Green Michelin Primacy LCs to my wifes Golf 195/65/15. These are supposed to cut down fuel consumption by 10% or so. We got 2 of these last year and another 2 recently, about $215 each. Michelin had a promotion where if you bought 4 there was a free Canon Camera. Unfortunately for us we did not qualify. Whether it's the Golf (no sports car) or the highish profile of the tyres these tyres give a very comfortable and fairly quiet ride. The first set the car came with which were Energy XM lasted about 70,000km and being the wifes car my heart ruled the decision as Michelin unless on special are not the cheapest tyres.

    On my other car I have Nexen 205 50 16 which are about half the price of Michelins and do a very good job. We got our Michelins from Ajax Tyres in Melbourne. You can save a lot of money ringing around. Not sure if all Bob Janes are the same.. they tend to push their own brands and my local one is not competitive on buyins. I got a great deal from a local Beaurepaire outlet on the first 2 Nexen CP641 ($125 each), the original N2000 which I loved the look of no longer being imported. Went back for 2 more CP641and found they were more like $160. Went to Ajax and they were $130. Tyre buying is definitely subjective... good luck!

    I got onto the Nexen distributor in Victoria.. here's a link to some Sydney outlets
    http://www.tyrepitstop.com.au/nexen-...ance-tyres.asp

    http://www.bigwheeltyres.com.au/prod...res/nexen.html
    Last edited by J'aime la vie; 4th November 2010 at 07:59 PM.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Default Tongue in cheek reply!

    First the serious question of what size are they?
    Then the bad humour, "If they are for a Picasso do they necessarily have to be round?"

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    Michelin LC's on 2007 C5 are very quiet, and my fuel consumption has improved over 5K km. Too many variables to quantify.

    Rossie

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluey504 View Post
    First the serious question of what size are they?
    Then the bad humour, "If they are for a Picasso do they necessarily have to be round?"
    G'day,
    of course not. They should be cubist, or blue. Or the other way.

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    215/50/R17 95Y and their roundness was compromised by a big bulge in the side wall on the front left.

    But as fans of the Modern Lovers know Pablo Picasso used to drive an El Dorado http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2iL...eature=related

    As for the Picasso itself - it's a Citroen that falls into a black hole if you're thrown back to 2006. Great and underrated car.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Forgotten all about the 'Modern Lovers' tune, very choice! So SoHo NY and by location Warhol, but then I'd be labeled a Culture Vulture. Don't know much about art but I know what I like!
    Picasso/Monet/Dali/Rembrandt and that bloke who cut his ear off are but a few that I wish I have on high rotation on the walls here! Make do with prints and happy I can at least 'hover'.

    If you cross cubist with blue and use them with a vehicle would your female passengers become the wailing woman?

    Warning Science Content! The best option is a www search by tyre size and then delete brands at your discretion. The Picasso is a van so this fact must be at the forefront of any decision. It's amazing what a carefully worded e-mail can do when looking for something/anything odd as the 'click option 42 reply' won't cut the mustard as it doesn't fit the criteria of the question. Send a swag of e-mails ASAP so they get them first thing Monday, and include some off-beat AF quotes. They maybe troglodytes but you can guide them to what is art; Painter's, sculptors and assorted genius that are about....or just direct them to a Bugatti family web site!

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    Tadpole
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    I've just returned home from having a set of new tyres fitted to my 2007 Picasso and the ones I went with were the Federal 595:

    www.federaltyres.com.au/tyres/high-performance/595

    The tyre place I went to spoke very highly of them in terms of wet weather performance, road noise, endurance and value for money. They cost $165 each, fitted and balanced and with a front wheel alignment.

    I asked about Michelins and Continentals etc and they suggested that the extra $60 - $100 per tyre was very hard to justify.

    I did a bit of research and found a number of mentions about the tyres on several modifed-car forums and generally the comments were very good, some negative, some very positive.

    Having only done about 20 klms on them its a bit hard to form a strong opinion however they are substantially quieter than the Toyo's that were on the Picasso when I bought it a few months ago.

    So far so good - I'm very happy with the cost and the noise, but will wait and see what the wet weather performance and fuel economy is like.

    FWIW, the tyre place initially tried to a +1 -1 fitment (225/45ZR17) however the clearance in the front wheel arches was a concern due to the extra width, so we went with the standard fitment of 215/50.

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    Cool... these ought help me when I'm drifiting in the Picasso!

    Seriously though, I look forward to hearing a longer term update as I'll be needing some tyres for my Picasso soon.

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    yeah the drifting was up there on my list of priorities, but it was the road noise that got me - i hate when the coarse gravel drowns out the doof doof from the 32 subwoofers in the back

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jools View Post
    I
    I asked about Michelins and Continentals etc and they suggested that the extra $60 - $100 per tyre was very hard to justify.
    Hmmm. I wonder if they make more on a chinese cheapy than on a premium tyre.

    Its actually not that hard to justify.
    If $240-400 buys extra safety, an extra margin for error, surely that speaks for itself.
    It seems false economy to go and spend $30k+ on a modern car with 5 star safety etc etc to keep your family safe in, only to have it shod with cheap tyres.

    People often say "But I dont ever drive hard."
    Thats bollocks.
    When a pedestrian steps out in front of you on a wet night, you will expect your car to decelerate faster than an F1 car, to avoid killing someone.
    Of course it wont, but how it performs at that crucial moment before a colision has a great deal to do with the choice you made in tyres.
    If my premium tyres only save ass once in their lifetime, or even if i have to chew through ten sets before they save ass, then that makes the extra dollars spent very very easy to justify.


    Jo

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    Member Foghorn Lebhorn's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree Jo. BUT that is based on the assumption that the Continentals or Michelins are better. I'm not convinced that this is necessarily the case across the board.

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    Jo, I understand your point however the tyres weren't bought purely because of the price - there were much cheaper tyres available.

    I'd never heard of Federal so I did some research before buying them and I also looked into Michelin and Continental and some of the other better-known brands. All brands had their share of positive and negative comments. Michelin PS3's had some negative comments about poor wet performance and fast wear - there were also some very positive comments about them.

    On the mod-car forums there are a lot of discussions about tyre choices and how they affect lap times, and the Federal's did get some good recommendations. One poster replaced his Yokohama Advans with the 595s and found that he had more grip under acceleration (ie the traction control had to interfere a lot less under full boost acceleration)

    While a lot of the comments and reviews were anecdotal and less than scientific, I did find:

    - no comments that suggested the tyre was not worth considering
    - many comments that suggested the tyre was a decent, high performance tyre
    - no information that suggested spending substantially more per tyre would result in a substantial improvement

    So far I'm pretty comfortable with the choice. If a pedestrian was to wander out in front of me on a wet night I have no reason to believe that a far more expensive tyre would be the difference between life and death. If I did have a reason then I would have spent the extra.

    But if it turns out I'm wrong and they are a dog in the wet, I will let you know.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jools View Post
    While a lot of the comments and reviews were anecdotal and less than scientific, I did find:

    - no comments that suggested the tyre was not worth considering
    - many comments that suggested the tyre was a decent, high performance tyre
    - no information that suggested spending substantially more per tyre would result in a substantial improvement
    Did you miss this site???

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Fe...UPER-STEEL.htm

    I think your tyre guy has sold you drift tyres. Fully sic!!!!
    Drifters dont consider massive amounts of traction as an asset, in fact it is a hindrance.

    A mate tried drifting a porsche twin turbo, and found out it takes more than just brutal power to do a burnout in a rwd car. The damn porkers clutch nearly burned out the michi tyres on the beast were so grippy.





    Jo

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    Jo,

    Gudday!

    I agree that safety should be paramount, and the value of the car involved should make no difference, but how to determine the best tyre? The site you mentioned gives purely personal opinions, and as such, with the almost unlimited variables involved, means very little.

    Many years ago Choice magazine compared tyres under controlled conditions. Different tyres, same car, driver, track, prodedures, etc; surely a much more scientific approach?

    Is there any such current source that departs from the individual viewpoint and offers a realistic comparison under actual controlled conditions? It would be nice to get away from the 'mine is bigger than yours' hormonal garbage and have a scientific comparison basis.

    Regards,

    Fento

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    nope, Jo, missed that one.. must have been too busy reading all the tuner and drifter forums

    its funny though, most of the comments on that site talk about how hard and noisy they are whereas mine are very quiet and they felt pretty good in the wet today - no sign of slipping and they pulled up very predictably when I tried a couple of emergency stops..

  17. #17
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    The car manufacturer PSA approves certain tyres for its cars, indeed the suspension is designed around them. A user has no chance of testing a tyre under the wide range of conditions it might encounter, or its properties of energy conservation etc.
    The safety margins of the vehicle could be compromised by the use of another tyre,especially on the grounds of price. You have an accident on non approved tyres and watch the manufacturer run away. Worse, here in France you will probably find the insurance company walk away as well.
    PSA with its long standing alliance with Michelin has co-designed for its cars since the Traction.
    Today for production control purposes it is prudent to have more than one supplier and Michelin anyway is more preoccupied with growth markets like China. As a result recent cars have had some ontinental tyres approved and the DS3 in some variants runs on Bridgestones.
    The position is locked in in France by another factor. Cars are homologated with fiscal implications on their economy and pollution levels. The manufacturers specify tyres with certain energy economy characteristics for the approval tests and so the package of car and tyres is what gives the claimed fuel economy and pollution levels that they can advertise. Once you change the tyres the approval is lost. Speed, economy or safety affecting changes to vehicles are not allowed without a complex testing procedure. The Controle Technique done every two years requires that the vehicle be checked against the homologation spec. shown on the carte grise or rego.
    People who change tyres or wheels etc often keep the old ones and refit them before the CT, knowing that their vehicle will be pulled off the road.
    The days are past when users could choose their own tyres, oils and other consumables. They are subject to OEM approval and the approved items have to be used to retain the manufacturer's warranty and obligations under safety legislation and the design life of the power train.
    These subjects were done to death over the last two years but lost.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    OEM fitments for C4 Picasso:
    Michelin Energy Saver - 205/65 R15 94H
    Michelin Primacy HP - 215/55 R16 93V, 215/50 R17 95W XL
    Michelin Pilot Exalto 2 - 215/45 ZR18 93W XL

    If you're looking for worthy alternatives, I'd suggest the Continental ContiSportContact3. Its natural competitor is the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 rather than the Primacy HP, so dry/wet grip & braking is up there with the best of road tyres. And according to their databook, the size 215/50 R17 95W XL is optimised for rolling reistance (denoted by the letter "E" on the tyre sidewall) so you won't sacrifice too much in terms of ecology either.

    More importantly, they are available as "extra load" tyres (or rather, the CSC3 in your size is only made as an extra load tyre) and seeing the Picasso has a big load carrying capacity, it's definitely justified.

    The only downside is that they might be expensive, and may not last as long as the Primacy HP, but such is the price of prodigious grip.

    Also, they are OEM fitments for the following Frenchies;
    Peugeot 207 CC - 205/45 ZR17 88W XL
    Peugeot 308, 308 CC - 225/45 R17 94W XL, 225/40 R18 92W XL
    Peugeot 3008 - 225/45 ZR18 95W XL, 235/45 R18 98W XL (225/50 R17 98V XL uses Primacy HP)
    Peugeot RCZ - 235/45 R18 98W XL, 235/40 R19 96W XL
    Renault Clio III RS - 215/45 R17 87W
    Renault Megane II RS - 225/45 R17 91W, 225/40 ZR18 92Y XL
    Renault Twingo RS - 195/45 R16 80V, 195/40 R17 81V XL

    Its application seems to range from boulevard cruisers to hot hatches and everything in between, so I think you're in good company.

    And finally, if you search on Google, you'll find they almost always finish in the top 3 in tyre tests, regardless of size.

  19. #19
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    Default Picasso Tyres

    So have we decided what brand of tyre are the best to purchase?
    Because after a three year service today they tell me the Picasso needs new tyres.
    Kumho start at $145 and Michelin towards $300 and Nexen $180.

  20. #20
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    If you have 16 inch tyres, go for the Michelins, but don't bother with the Primacy HP and get the Pilot Sport 3 instead. You'll have much more grip at your disposal and also has Michelin's Green X symbol on it, which guarantees some sort of energy efficiency. They'll probably be a damn sight cheaper than $300 as well.

    If you have 17 inch tyres, get the Continental CSC3. Refer to my post above yours.

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    Burgjoh, I think the answer to your question comes down to peace of mind and how much you're prepared to pay for it. If you want to drive the car confident that you've got the best tyres for all conditions, go for the michelins or continentals.

    Going for the cheaper tyres may leave your wallet a bit happier but you may find yourself wondering what they will be like on the next wet greasy bend and also wondering whether maybe you should have spent the extra for the better tyres.

    Mine haven't given me a reason for concern as yet, I've driven them in the wet and they were fine - cleared the water quite well and pulled up fine under some extra heavy braking.

    But the thing is, the more research I do the more I find that is unsettling, so I seem to be extra wary when driving (which may not necessarily be a bad thing). The comments about the tyres are an even mix of positive and negative - some people think they are great and would buy them again, others hate them. I wonder if it is a quality control issue in the manufacturing - some batches are good, others not so good...

    So at the moment I'm not convinced either way. Would I buy them again? Not sure... I would probably play it safe and spend the extra for michelins for no other reason than the peace of mind. Once I've done a few more miles on them I may be able to give you a more definitive answer, but for now I'm just being overly cautious and would prefer not to recommend them until I had a good, strong reason to do so.

  22. #22
    Member Burgjoh's Avatar
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    My tyres are 215 50 R17 95W. The best price on Michelin Sport P3 is $325 from Tyreplus.
    Primacy not available. BF Goodrich Sports G4 $240.
    Where can you get a better price on Michelin?

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jools View Post
    The comments about the tyres are an even mix of positive and negative - some people think they are great and would buy them again, others hate them. I wonder if it is a quality control issue in the manufacturing - some batches are good, others not so good...
    My impression is that it says more about the reviewer than the product.

    By many peoples measure (and plenty of these people drive french cars) a great tyre is cheap and lasts 90,000 km.


    Even your tyre guy (assuming you quoted him correctly) has presented an interesting veiw.
    The tyre place I went to spoke very highly of them in terms of wet weather performance, road noise, endurance and value for money.
    Wet weather performance tyres are generally soft compound and therefore dont last long compared to a harder compound tyre. This is the trade off.
    So pretty much it is either a good wet weather tyre or it has endurence, but seldom both.

    Comparing a great wet weather tyre with a poor one in reference to longevity, would suggest that the hard tyre is better value as it last longer, and if your only criteria was how hard you wallet got hit at the checkout, that would be the case, but as i mentioned before, if the time ever comes when you need every last bit of performance to avoid a collision, the value scale gets thrown out the window on its ass and re written with the benefit of hindsight.


    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgjoh View Post
    My tyres are 215 50 R17 95W. The best price on Michelin Sport P3 is $325 from Tyreplus.
    Primacy not available. BF Goodrich Sports G4 $240.
    Where can you get a better price on Michelin?
    My price assumption was based on 16 inch tyres.

    I wasn't aware the PS3 came as an extra load tyre in your size, did they confirm the load index? Anyway, try giving Jax a ring and while you're at it, get some quotes for the Continental CSC3 as well.

    If you prefer something other than the PS3 or CSC3, then no doubt I'd get the Hankook Ventus V12 evo. I reckon these are the best out of the less expensive brands, and certainly better than the Kumho KU31 or any Nexen.
    Last edited by Diesel_vert; 18th November 2010 at 11:49 AM.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    What gets me about all this tyre talk is that why the hell are cars like the Picasso released with tyre designation of a 'W' rating? That's 300km/h FFS. I'd not want to be in a Picasso doing 200km/h, let alone 300km/h. The Rx4 has a rating of 210km/h on the tyres, no way would it make that in a fit.
    Yeah, sure, theres the safety issue but fair dinkum, 300km rating on a MPV???
    Load rating yes, make it a little above the vehicle weight but there is no sensible answer for that sort of rort in relation to the amount you have to spend to comply with the speed rating.

    Steer clear of the cheap tyres at all costs. I have been there, recommended some that are supposedly silica based, long wearing Go for possibly a Yokahama as they seem to be a little less pricey than Miche but still deliver great ride and comfort and were quieter in our case. (Yoko A-drive replaced Michelin Energy o Xsara)
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